Advice pls, burn or deficient?

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by Sabastian, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. #1 Sabastian, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011
    Greetings again to all... let's get right to it:

    Growing White Widow, first time for this strain, 3rd grow for me. DW bubble (6 gal res) on RO water only, two bubblers, pump running 4x a day for 15 min (roots are in water 24/7 of course). Using Technoflora RFS, currently 1/4 strength max, ppm running under 400, ph has been 6.0-6.25 by test strip, my ph pen has been questionable (reading varying a lot with same water, does accurately test 4 and 7 solutions when calibrating, after cal it generally agrees with the strips, usually 6.0-6.4 max). Running 150 HPS and two 65 watt CFLs in veg spectrum 20hrs on 4hrs off per day, so plenty of light. Res temps running about 78 degrees or so.

    These plants are growing better than any others I have grown. Roots are crazy good, no rot, moving the lights up daily, large leaves, rapid growth. However, from the beginning the leaves have been mottled looking... lighter areas of green in no particular patterns and not all leaves. Now however the leaves are getting dry and shrivling up, some cracking if I flex them a bit. Is happening on new growth too I notice on some shoots. No burn on tips (however looking at the pics it appears that way, but not in person... leaves are all green or light green), but the leaves themselves tend to fold upwards along their central vein, while the ends curl under too, and some leaves appear deformed in places. Have also noted redness to the large leaf stemps and on some new shoot leaves that are dying. Since the PPM has been so low I did not think I could be burning them. I think the PH has been correct and not fluctuating much. The HPS has not been too close and my hand does not feel hot under the lights at plant level. Room temps are about 75-80 degrees. I believe I have been careful in diluting my nute concentrations per Technoflora's instructions/ratios as needed to not over do it on these new plants. These girls are only 25 days old and if it weren't for the dry leaves I would not be worried. I have reviewed all the info I could find on nute disorders etc. and can find no other explanation other than nute burn... but how can that be at such a low PPM level.?

    Insights, observations or suggestions welcomed please!

    Pics, left to right: Shows size of plants; shows curling/cracking; curling/cracking; leaves folding up and curling under; mottling on leaves. Note, one pic looks like the leaves are brownish on the edges, but they are not in person, just very dry. Thanks!!!
     

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  2. I just started a run of White Widow also, so I want to keep an eye on this thread. They are just over 2 weeks in and I have also been taking it easy on the Nutes and sitting at 300ppm now (.5 conv) or 430ppm (.7 conv)..

    Yours definitely look a bit deficient, and could be your PH is a little high, so they are not getting the full Nute Uptake. What does your Humidity Look like? This could account for the Dryness of the leaves.

    Oh and Also, RES TEMP 78 and No Root Rot = Bravo :wave:
     
  3. I appreciate the response. Humidity may have been high as the temps in the room were up before I turned on the overhead fan yesterday. I have used Pondzyne to help control root rot in the past (this summer) as I did not clean my res and equipment as well as I should have (this time I cleaned thoroughly with vinegar and baking soda). It helped, takes very little and is very cheap, available at any typical hardware store.

    I hate my stupid ph pen... just can't trust it, but I assume (foolishly?) that the strips are giving me a ball park figure that I can generally varify with the pen after I calibrated it every time. Need to get another pen but don't trust the cheap ones will do the job and if the electodes always wear out (whats to wear out???) why spend $80-100 on one?

    If nobody gives more insight, I will probably do a nute change tomorrow or weds, bump them to about 600ppm on RO water and see what they do. I hope I don't kill these plants cause they are the best I've grown so far.
     
  4. Yes, you will need a good meter for PH and PPM.. Some of the combo meters have replaceable Electrodes, so you don't have to throw the meter out if you kill it, just replace the electrode.

    Apparently the sweet spot is 5.8ph, so you kinda want to target that area as best you can with what you have, but a res change couldn't hurt.
     
  5. By the way, I moved this post to sick plants, but I wanted you to know that I decided it was deficiency based on the red stems etc, so I did a nute change last night, bumped them to 550 total (used tap water at 145ppm, so about 400 nutes) and they look better this morning. If you want to continue to follow it go to sick plants, same title... thanks again for your response.
     
  6. Thanks for the heads up,, I do want to continue to follow.

    Mine were showing Calcium and deficiency on the lower/original leaves along with a little Mag Def, so I gave them a little more Calmag, considering my first dose was very light.. I am trying so hard not to go overboard and burn them, I actually think I am being a little too careful.

    How old are your plants at this point?

    My PPMs are at 330 (.5) this morning, or just under 500 at .7

    Good to hear they are looking better. I will jump over to the other thread and subscribe.
     
  7. I first looked at the pics, and said BURN...
    Then read your posting, and went :eek: ....

    When you say

    400 ppm is to low IMO for a plant that old...
    Then 6.0 to 6.25 pH is WAY to high...

    Then you say:

    What pumps??? Your air pumps???
    Because I see a DWC system, which the pumps should be running 24/7/365...

    So now I'm not so sure, because you could be having nutrient lockout at pH readings higher than 6... Then the roots are setting in solution which is not being supplied air....


    IMO, run the air pumps 24/7, adjust the pH to 5.6-5.8, up the nutrient to at least 3/4 strength, you should be right around 800 to 1000ppm, and that should correct the issue....
     
  8. Those are definitely deficient.

    Also I see an overwatering issue as well (Leaf Tips are curling under) In DWC that means that the roots are not getting enough Oxygen.
     



  9. So he does he need a bigger air pump? iam having the same issue, I have two air pumps currently do I need a better air stone?
     
  10. The key is you want you bucket full of very small bubbles. Big bubbles don't work very well to oxygenate the water. So optimally you would want a good micro pore air stone. It's why I switched to Ebb and Flo it's a lot more forgiving.
     
  11. Thanks to all who posted after I moved this to the sick plants forum... please follow there as I have a few new issues. But, to answer questions here, I have the airpumps running 24/7 on two air "bars" and using a bigger pump. I was referring to the water pump that I now leave off most of the time (not needed). I have not heard of hydro problems with a ph at or slightly above 6, but am open to feedback for sure. I seem to run into more problems when the ph goes below 5.8.

    Sorry I didn't get back to questions here... please see sick plants... appreciate all who respond!
     

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