Advanced Cloning Techniques - Hard to Root or Valuable Plants

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by jcj77d, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. #1 jcj77d, Jan 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2009
    Advanced Cloning Techniques - Hard to Root or Valuable Plants

    Note: Successfully cloning cuttings from plants depends on them quickly developing roots. Use these tips {along with your regular cloning methods} to increase your odds.

    Each plant has its own characteristics as to how it puts out roots. But there are some general guidelines for most houseplants, tropicals and some trees.

    Every technique starts with good water; filtered tap water or fresh rainwater.

    Oxygen: Roots need oxygen to thrive. The more water sits idle, the less aerated it is. Keeping the water moving keeps it saturated with oxygen.

    Heat: Warmer roots form faster, but keep heat directed to the roots to limit the need for the cutting to transpire valuable moisture.

    Light: Do not subject tender plants to high light levels. One Clone only needs about 15-20 watts of Full Spectrum Flouros or CFL's at about 12-18" above the Tops. The need for photosynthesis for clones is small, b/c we want the plants/clones energy going into root production moreso than in foliage production. To get a jump on this process, after you have sucessfully cloned your plant & have it planted in the method of your choise, leave the clone in complete darkness for 36-48hrs, then put them on a 18/6 light cycle, giving the clones a dark period so photosynthesis stops & the clone can focus all its energy into root growth.

    Fertilizer: It is important to include phosphorus & a B-Vitamine Suppliment (eg: Superthrive) for root growth. Use a water soluble or liquid fertilizer at no more than 1/8 recommended levels. This will reduce transplant stress.

    Sterilization: Diseases or other pathogens can be a problem. Simple sterilization can be achieved with boiling water, or bleach if necessary. Glass is a good option for reusable containers that can stand up to repeated cleanings.

    Prepairing the clone: as usual cut off the branch you want to be your clone & put into a container of your water mixture w/ a B-Vitamine suppliment, (it is important to keep the stem under water as much as possible, this will help prevent a air bubble from forming inside the stem & killing the clone), then remove any lower leaves & branches, & then trimming off half of the remaining leaves, [​IMG] (this is done b/c w/o a root system it is harder for the clone to support that foliage). next make your 45 degree cut underwater, while also scraping off the bark about 1/2" up all the way around the stem to provide more surface area for root growth [​IMG] . Next & as fast as you can, dip your clone in your cloning solution (shaking off any extra), & plant into your method of choise [​IMG].


    The Bubbler:
    This technique is a cheap and easy way to increase survivability rates. Make bubbles in the water by using an aquarium air pump. More vigorous bubbles means more oxygen. An air stone helps limit heavy vibrations, but is not necessary. The air will maintain humidity if it is kept within an enclosed area. This will also limit evaporation, pests and pathogens. Place the cutting through a hole in a lid or a flat piece of Styrofoam which floats on the surface. A drink bottle with a narrow neck can hold the air hose and plant together.

    Modified Bubbler:
    This technique is based on a bubbler system that is made semi-aeroponic. While the air pump is off, set the very bottom of the clone about a half-inch above water level. Bubble vigorously and the water will splash onto the clone and fall off or bubbles will burst on the cutting and help it remain moist.

    Potato Graft:
    This technique works well with woody stems. The idea here is to use the potato as a grafted root. Put a cut or hole in the potato so that your clone will fit snugly inside. “Plant” your cutting in the potato and then bury the potato in soil just below the surface. The potato will quickly grow roots while providing the plant with its required moisture and nutrients. As roots from the clone develop, the soft potato will give way and split. Potato leaves will also develop and should be removed.
    [​IMG]


    Humidity Dome:
    Besides oxygen for the roots, creating a warm, humid environment is the best way to increase a cutting’s survival rate. A humidifier can raise the moisture of an entire room. Keeping the clone in the bathroom can sometimes be the best option if the light is adequate. For small cuttings, a plastic grocery bag can be placed in a dome shape over it. Bags that allow filtered light are idea. You can make a dome with some small wire or a metal coat hanger. Even more humidity can be introduced by misting inside. Mold will form easily in this environment so replace the bag often.
    [​IMG]


    Rooting Hormones:
    Some trees (willow) create their own rooting hormones and can be used in place of commercial products. As long as pathogens are not a concern, take a living branch from a willow tree and place it in the water you plan to use for rooting another plant for at least one day. This tree cutting will continue to produce the hormone and can be soaked for weeks in a separate container. Use a little at a time while watering the clone and refill the container with fresh water as needed. DIY Cloning Solution
    [​IMG]


    Air Layering: a cloning method that roots the cutting fully before its ever cut from the mother, allowing massive clones to be taken without any down time- they vegetate and root simultaniously. within 2 weeks you can take a cut thats a fully rooted, thick stalked, lushly vegetated, almost 12in. tall plant, stick it in dirt and grow it.
    ITEMS NEEDED:
    PLANT!
    matchstick or toothpick
    tape
    razor blade
    rooting hormone (Clonex)
    tweezers
    plastic wrap
    scissors
    pin
    (1)Sterilize all tools before using them.
    (2)Cut a branch that is at least 1/8 inch thick with at least two nodes.
    (3)Select area from which roots will sprout. This area needs to be midway up the main stem, with enough room on each side of the cut to fasten the bag.
    (4)Use the Razor Blade to make a 1-2" lengthwise incision along the stem. Cut all the way through the bark, to which the phloem is attached. Don't cut into the xylem, which is the layer under the bark.
    (5) A ring of bark is removed from around the stem. The phloem and cambium are attached to the inside of the bark, so when the bark is removed the phloem is also removed. This leaves the central cylinder of xylem and upward water flow unaffected.
    [​IMG]

    (6)Get clonex and apply it to the exposed xylem. For increased stability, you may tape a toothpick or matchstick parrallel to the stem.
    (7)With thumb get some grow medium. (perlite, peatmoss, whatever) Pack the wound carefully with the soil.
    (Attach plastic wrap below incision with tape. Tape the vertical seam where the ends meet. The effect of this should be a funnel shaped plastic wrap enclosure.
    (9)Pack with grow medium. Be sure to leave enough "slack" at the top so that it may be taped to the stem above the incision.
    (10)Fasten closed with tape.
    [​IMG]
    (11)Use pin to create holes in around bag. This will allow soil to breath.
    Use an eye dropper to keep the soil wet. Do this every day. After 2 weeks, your cutting will have roots and will be ready for propagation.

    Root Grafting:
    Same concept as the potato grafting, except you take an existing live plant (same type plant as clone prefably), & cut off the entire plant, leaving about 2" of main stalk remaining. Split rootstock (stem) through the middle about 1/2-1" deep useing a sharp blade. Then take your clone & make a 60 degree cut on both sides of the stem the same length as the rootstock split (creating a wedge shape). Then with something, pry open the rootstock & slide in the clone, making sure you get it flush to the rootstocks sides & bottom. Then just tie or tape the rootstock & clone together tightly enough to close the gaps as much as possible with out damaging the plants.

    While nothing can guarantee 100 percent survivability, any one or a combination of these techniques will increase the chances of your rare and valuable clones developing the necessary root system to thrive.

    This is just for hard to clone plants, who need to keep a plant alive, who have been unsuccessful in the regular cloning methods.
     
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  2. no aerocloner set up? I find they work real well, like you said nothing can guarantee 100% success...but I have had nothing but success(100%) with mine and Ive been using the design for little over 2yrs now. I normally have a nice root system in 10days but some stains have taken a little less/more...
     
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  3. imo a aerocloner & bubble cloner are pretty simular & most ppl know about, this tread is for ppl that have hard to clone strains that dont root useing the cut dip & plant method
     
  4. Nice thread jc...lots of good info
     
  5. My vote.... STICKY STICKY STICKY! Please dont make us keep bump'n this up...

    Hats off to ya JCJ, many a grower shall benefit from this info!
     
  6. thanks, i thought it would be good for ppl that cant get a clone to root the regular way, & this would help their odds
     
  7. great job on this article man.. +rep
     
  8. Wish id seen this before 3 failed tries of cloning,all i can think of is the temps are now lower than last summer when all my cloning had some success.:(

    Great thread,i will be playing with this as soon as i have another mother.:eek:
     
  9. gonna try the 2 grafting methods, along w/ the regular way
     
  10. Very helpful info!! I'm going to be cloning shortly after i sex my current plants.
     
  11. Fantastic thread.

    Question regarding the "air layering" method...any special treatment prior to starting? I know most recommend starving the mother plant of N and fortifying with a little P AND k for a week before taking cuttings, but this seems like it would be counter productive to the vegetating and since the plant doesn't need to "hurry" so much getting it's roots out maybe that's not necessary...

    As far as the grafting method, just to be sure I understand...could you take a large plant with a fully developed root system in a five gallon bucket, let's say you are harvesting a finished specimen, harvest the upper portion of the plant and then insert the clone into the remaining stem? Would the fact that the plant whose root system you are taking over has just been through flowering be ok or must it be a vegetative plant? Any special treatment for the new clone top, like foliar feeding or misting or what have you? How about putting some dutch master brand "replicator" gel (which I believe doesn't contain the root-hormone chemical) in the root stem with the clone to help make a seal and/or heal the graft location more quickly (or any similar technique)? Also, what is the largest size cutting you could insert with a reasonable expectation of success?
     
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  12. Also one cloning tip: Clones are often negatively affected by an air bubble getting up the stem...that's why I prefer gel, because when I hold up the cutting I watch the globby of gel slide down the stem and turn into a droplet at the end of the stem where the hole is and when that droplet falls off it creates a little sucking effect and draws the potential air bubble out of the end of the stem....
     
  13. Anybody find that sativa leaning plants are more difficult to root? I have had 0% success with my hawaian snow.
     
  14. Good thread man. The grafting methods r really interesting and I'll definitley b tryin it out. I've read about grafting b4 but it always sounded way to technical for a stoner, but your step by step gives me confidents that I might just b able to pull this off. Thanks for the info bro, greatly appreciated
     
  15. Great thread man, thanx for the info.
    +Rep
     
  16. I recieved a cutting of some super skunk from my buddy. I have put it under a 400 W MH on an 18/6 cycle. It is in perlite and has had rooting solution spread on it. I am debating on transferring it into just water to make sure the roots develop then move it into some high nutrient organic soil. Should I leave my current setup or change to the water setup?
     

  17. be patient and just leave it alone ;) it will root
     
  18. #18 Hashsnob, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2010
    This is my setup, this is how I did it on my first ever clone attempt and I got 100% success and rooted crazy quick, so I just continue to do it this way.. I'll include links from my local hydro shops online site and personal pics. First off I use a root riot 50 cube tray Hydroponics Unlimited -- All Your Growing and Gardening Needs from Beginner to Expert: Root Riot 50 Cube Tray with Clonex Gel this comes with a pcket of clonex cloning gel which is more than enough for 50 cuttings. First I soak the cubes in a cheap home depot brand vitamin B solution.. costs about 10-15 bucks
    [​IMG]
    then I take my cuttings with a razor blade at a 45 degree angle and plop them right into the clonex gel
    [​IMG]
    , no water or bubble bs just plop it right in and then place it right into one of the root riot cubes. Next I take OUT 2 of the root riot cubes and replace them with shot glasses, the shot glasses contain a yeast+sugar+water mixture that continuously releases c02 [​IMG]
    Now what I do for my watering solution I use rain water mixed with the vitamin B solution as well as a 2nd cloning agent, I dunno why... I just thought why not and did it and results have been GREAT so I keep to the program. So I put a big spoonfull of this schultz rooting hormone powder in with my watering mix
    [​IMG]
    as well as a small amount of neem
    [​IMG]
    because I believe its never to early for neem.. its the best shit EVER!!!!! Then I pop a hood similar to this one Hydroponics Unlimited -- All Your Growing and Gardening Needs from Beginner to Expert: Modi 7" Controlled Humidity Dome on top of my tray and put it under a heat lamp.. the lamp only gets turned on when I see condensation is low. I stick to that plan and as you can see, this is a 9 day old clone and its roots are already busting out ready for transplanting.

    [​IMG]

    :D:D:D
     
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  19. Thank you fella's. +rep
     
  20. making a second cut under water eliminates the threat of an embolism and greatly increases your chance of success.

    there is pressure applied to the stem of the plant when the blades of the trimmers/shears/razor blade are about to sever the cutting from the stalk. this is positive pressure being exerted upon the stalk. Once the actual cut is made and the blades close, NEGATIVE pressure draws air into the stem.

    in other words...

    Removing the cutting means an embolism is a possibility, AKA lower survival rate.

    if you make a second cut a slight bit farther up the stem UNDER WATER, the only thing the NEGATIVE pressure will draw up will be water :D

    finally, trim most (leave one or two) of the actual leaf blades back about 50% This will influence the plant to focus more energy on root production and transpire less water (It doesn't have any roots to start off so drying out is an issue!).

    This method of taking cuttings works for all types of cloners and all types of cloning mediums

    I find if one is using a cloner, bubbler buckets work best

    If one is going about it old school in rockwool/dirt or root riot cubes (something similar but not the peat pods, they dry out too fast) apply gel AFTER the second cut is made. And use a humidity dome... duh


    I heard of somebody injecting Gel2root brand gel (comes in 6 packs that remind you of clear Jello) into Root Riot brand rooting cubes. This was used IN CONJUNCTION with Clonex on the actual cutting. The thought behind this is that the Gel2Root will prevent the cube from drying out. Gel2Root has proved very unsuccessful compared to traditional cloning methods in my experience. HOWEVER It dose retain the perfect amount of moisture for the critical first few days of cloning without drowning your cuttings or causing mold/fungi by over-watering
     
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