Adv. Nutes Ph Perfect question.

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by WillGroElite420, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. #61 jakesterjammin, Dec 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2011

    Well look at #1
    pH Perfect is guaranteed to work with Advanced Nutrients Hobbyist, Expert, Professional and Grandmaster Bundles.



    IMPO they are covering their ass for the people that chamber temps are in the low 90s, res temps in the low 80s, and so on...

    Because I do not care how much buffers they use, the plants WILL change the pH, so they put in a little clause to cover their ass in case it's not pH Perfect..


    LMFAO, now that's some funny shit right there...
    I don't care who you arrrrrrrrr...



    Don't forget copper... ;)



    Exactly, AN is not stupid, one additive plays off the other, so if you want one additive to work as it should, you pretty much need the others...

    Then we're back at $650 bucks and again double the cost of GH or any other nutrient on the market..



    NOT THE CASE...

    According to both calculators:
    Advanced Nutrients Calculator, Hydroponic Nutrient Solution, pH Perfect Nutrient Calculator
    GENERAL HYDROPONICS

    For the same 20gal res., lets just look at the base nutes...

    AN:
    Grow: 304mL
    Micro: 304mL
    Bloom: 304mL
    Now I do not use the 304mL, I use 150mL to get the ppm they want to see (which pisses me off they cannot get it right on their site), but still using more AN then I do with GH...


    GH:
    FloraGro: 250mL
    FloraMicro: 150mL
    FloraBloom: 50mL


    Now as far as lasting longer...
    When I used GH on my mothers, I used to go every 12 to 14 days before I started seeing signs of a deficiency (usually nitrogen), now that I'm using AN, fucking 8-9 days and I'm seeing sings of nitrogen deficiency...



    Ummmmm, so can I have that pH Mini Doser you have setting in your desk???
    LOL ;)



    Outstanding point Tihspeed :hello:

    One of the reasons I went to RDWC as opposed to the Ebb&Gro flood and drain which I originally was going to do for the side by side...

    Now I was going to do the rdwc way, but then thought, I do not want any claims that I did not follow AN's directions, thus it's not a valid test, because I short changed them...

    So I decided to go with the weekly change as they suggest..
    To be honest here, they ALL suggest the weekly change..

    But it would be some GREAT information to have and pass along...
    So I'm thinking once I get a few extra mothers to play with, I'm going to do exactly that, find the add back to rdwc...


    Also looking forward to seeing your results too WillGroElite420!!



    Well I'm going to do my best anyway... ;)




    Ya I seen it...
    He claims to be a pioneer of the nutrient, but IMHO, he is completely out of the game and is more of a salesmen than anything else...


    That's my point, and we'll get to that part where we mix custom soups head to head... But IMO, I honestly do not think we're going to see a "night & day" difference here from one to the next in this side by side...

    Is one better than the next, yes I believe there is if you use a gas chronograph and pick it all apart... But "we the people" do not do that, we simply judge by looks, taste, smell, and effect..

    So is the looks, taste, smell, and effect going to be so dramatic that we're going to say OMG, that shit is the best EVER??? Again IMO, no...

    But we'll see, ya never know...


    Well, in the last email from the owner:
    "Btw I'm expecting the ph perfect stuff to come in this week. It was supposed to be shipped Friday. So I'll get everything you needed at that time."

    So we'll see what I get...
    But if you think about it, why would they just order the base of pH Perfect line and not the rest of the new products... ;)

    In any case, are not the powdered additives not as good as the liquid??
    I'm pretty sure I can follow mixing directions, and have all the scales, cylinders, measuring spoons, etc. etc. to follow the directions to the letter...

    Really, personally I'd rather get the powdered additives over paying 3 times more for them to toss in some water and mix it for me...


    Well what's on the AN site is MSRP...

    Matter fact, now I look at it, guess what bottles AN has on their OWN site..
    https://www.advancednutrients.com/catalog/us/product_info.php?products_id=110&categories_id=22

    So looks like they have not updated their own site as well... ;)


    This is the exact reason I wanted to do the side by side in the first place..
    Well not so much for people like you, which have done your homework, and know what is right and what is wrong, on top of the MOST IMPORTANT thing, the who, what, when, and where of hydro....

    I'm targeting the patients which their caregivers are charging them up most of $560 bucks an Oz, when they can grow it at the most for $150 bucks an Oz..

    But they are scared to invest into equipment simply because they believe they do not know how, will fail, and have to buy the crackhead caregiver prices anyway...


    Look, if I'm (or anyone) is paying high dollar for a nutrient, which a few even hundred bucks is a LOT to a LOT of people that have a medical condition, but if we're spending hundreds on nutrient, by dam the manufacture should have ALREADY DONE THE HOMEWORK, and be able to tell me what to mix and then when...

    So we should NOT have to do years of research learning about the different chemicals, what they are needed for by the plants, and why we need to mix in certain chemicals at certain times, THATS WHAT (IMO) I'M SPENDING MY HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS FOR!!!

    ALL I should have to know is, "follow their directions" and I can get just as good if not better than ANY custom soup mix that the most advanced grower can come up with....

    So it all boils down to the noobs should be able to get the required equipment, keep the chamber within the set boundaries, and simply follow the nutrient manufacturer's directions, and then they should be able to get just as good if not better then the people which have years learning the chemicals of the nutrients and have developed their own custom soup..



    I had one advanced hydro grower say to me, "why would I buy AN's bullshit when I can get the stuff at a fraction of the cost and mix my own nutrient"..

    MY EXACT POINT!!!
    Because is that not what the nutrient companies has done already???
    Spent years testing different soup mixes and now developed a "custom nutrient" which they are selling it for hundreds of dollars????

    If not, what the fuck am I spending the $650 bucks for??? :confused::confused::confused:



    Well after a while you'll be able to just look at your plants and know life is good for them... Yes I too have the temp meters which record highest and lowest temps, but do I look at them, not really...

    I let the plants speak for themselves...
    Like with the chamber humidity and temps, it's really strain dependent, and then if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it, nutrient additive dependent as well...

    Meaning one strain may handle higher temps just fine, where the next cannot and start showing heat stress.. Then lets toss in the use of silica in the nutrient... Which we know potassium silicate strengthens cell walls...

    Now when a few times a day I will peek in on the plants and see how they are feeling..

    A great example is with the mothers I'm growing now.... I started flooding every 2hrs (which is fine for plants that young), but this past couple/few days I noticed that in the morning the plant's leaves were standing up catching rays, but near the end of the day (I'm running 18/6), they looked all droopy, so I cut back the waterings from every 2hrs to every 3hrs.. Problem solved...


    Point being, you could be completely within spec, but still get slight issues from strain to strain, that no meter can tell or show you, thus I let the plants tell me what's wrong, and could careless about watching some meter on the wall...

    Now would the plants still grow, I'm sure it would have, but would they grow to it's full potential, IMO most likely not...



    Well again, IMO that is what the nutrient companies are charging me hundreds of dollars, for THEM to do the testing and tell me what I need...

    So do I NEED the 13 products from AN or can I get the same results with 8 products from GH??

    Just tell me what I need to use, and don't try and rip me off, because I'm going to find out!! ;)


    Well there is a couple places I can deal with for Co2 in my area...
    The place a few blocks away is $27 bucks so I can use them in a pinch, the other two below are a little cheaper, and 7 bucks is 7 bucks... LOL..

    1. Purity Cylinder Gases Inc. Wyoming, MI - (616) 532-2375
    This place is $20.14 to refill a 20lb tank, they also rent cyl.s for $12mo. any size. If you rent a cyl, it's an exchange, if you need yours filled, it's a drop off and pickup next day.

    2. Carbonic Systems Inc. Kentwood, MI - (616) 554-1918
    This place is $21.20 for a 20lb, they do not rent cyl.s, so you need to call ahead to make sure they have someone there which can do the refills, or you can drop it off and they will call when ready..

    Every place I have called never have asked what I need it for, but if they did I simply would tell them horticulture, because I'm a legal grower, so no worries...




    Well I grew up here and been my "home base"...



    Yep, knowledge is your first step...
    But I honestly want to take all that out of the equation, I really would like to make it, simply follow these directions and you cannot go wrong...



    Dude, get your license!!!



    Can't wait to see... :D



    Only doing a 60 day cure..
    In any case, they will be judged all the same...



    Ummmmm, why do you have to stay anonymous to the general public if you're a patient?? :confused:

    Shit I'm legal and could careless who knows I'm growing...
    Matter fact, if you look at my back window, with the intakes I have setup using HVAC ducting, it's pretty clear I'm growing... Then I have had everyone from the Fire, Police, and City inspectors in my house looking over my operation, and then was visited by the ATF too...

    They came in like it was a raid (even though I was ready from a tip off)!!
    Well a soft knock sort of raid, because of my firearms in the house..
    They came in all huffy and puffy, but after I spoke to them a little, dropped a few names (a lot of my family are police and a couple are ATF, and then my wife worked in Parole for 5-6yrs back in NC), but they calmed down, and most of them left too... Then it ended up a few of them having coffee bullshitting with the wife about Parole dept jobs here... LOL

    So personally I could careless who knows... ;)


    Well IMO, topic has been over, just some friends chatting now... LOL


    :wave:
     
  2. #63 WillGroElite420, Dec 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2011

    Well right.. thats kinda my point.. they guarantee it with the bundles, but not with anything else. IMO to ward off people who have custom mix fever, making it seem like if they do that ph perfect will fail. Since the money for them isnt really in the Ph Perfect, its the bundle they sell it with. Tih just uses base nutes ph perfect, he's not there prime customer lol


    Probably at least partially true. but there claim on chealated baseline nutrients says that even if it does flux it doesnt matter cus plants still 'get everything they need' Unfortunate that when buying nutes u have to take people who have $$ eyes at their word, or you have to test urself. Thats like choosing between eating shit or dirt... but whatev I'm ok with testing things out over the years to find the best value.



    Copper? to prevent which issue? I feel as if im about to learn somthing, thats becoming more rare by the day lol

    Unless your talking about DiY coolers. Copper tubing hooked to hoses , hooked to a water pump in cooler full of ice water. Cus if u mean that i'm gonna have those everywhere in my house lol Ever since someone taught my how to do that (mooseman i think somewhere on this forum) I have went crazy with copper diy chiller ideas, like hooking them to fans , thats a ghetto air conditioner if ive ever seen one. Who knows if the pump+the fan would = the running cost of a window AC or not but id figure it will be less. Gonne be using these instead of duct work from my boxes. All duct will be internal with the chillers on the exausts (light cooled and normal) and a chiller on the intake of the light. That way i dont have to vent the hot air elsewhere, it will cool it for a good portion of it. And I'll have a 'ghetto AC' goin in the room to help as well. I'll eventually switch to an AC on a thermostat , or two closed loop AC units inside the boxes. Those are too much for now, my overhead costs are allready R-tarted



    Really as far as marketing / technique AN has that shit down.. The bundles are an attention grabber with the "claimed yield % increases" and it makes sense with Bennies seperated , each new bundle u add will add a symbiosis to the res thus allowing better roots blah blah blah. If you take AN at their word, lets pretend everything they say is fact. They DO Make the best nutes. lol But once we get into trying to prove that, that is where it starts to get messy lol. Also double price means it needs to be double as good (or at least like 2/3rds better)


    Yeah i'll be doing the weekly feed as they say u should. Then experimenting from there on later grows. I'm a tough person to convince of things, so my studies will be slow... but they will be to convince me of things, and the evidence will be there. If im convinced, likely the studies i record as i go and show people will convince them too. S0 it may take like i said , something like 5 years or so. I'm fine with that, one step at a time. I'm still at the beginning of all of this. I plan on being a rarity as far as caregivers are concerned. I, like you, do not want to charge prices so high, and on top of that i'll be going for the best possible quality for personal use , and everyone will get that. I just dont know how im going to choose my 5 patients yet. lol


    Yeah without more study done on it i cant say for certain what i will end up with. But i'll definatly be doing a weekly drain with this ph perfect, and adjusting from there.


    Idk.. that could be sound logic. but they may just get PH perfect and not the other stuff to just sell with the bundle they have.. it is the same after all, just different older formulations and powdered versions. Surely they dont want to throw away all the old bundles they have just cus AN said nah, this one is better now, i suppose they will just sell them to non ph perfect ppl


    Thats what im sayin, its sucks cus idk.. They say the new ones are new formulations. They claim to constantly be researching bennies on replication rate, symbiosis, among other things. So yeah.. it could be exactly the same, and just be the difference of how u add it / mix it. Or it could be compleatly different and made more efficient. Also idk if by making into a liquid formulation they give you more concentrated amounts in 1 liter, than in X powder amount. So say you have to buy a new powdered thing 4 times to each 1 liter bottle you replace. Then its about the same price. I havent looked into those things. Also another thing is there could be something to be said about uptake ablility and whether powders settle, or dont work well in RDWC , Cause residue in the res that liquids dont or w/e. I mean idk im just coming up with ideas here, ive been trying to find a justification in the price for a month now, and these are the things i think of. Cus while as prices are high at AN they are pretty consistent from what ive seen and reason seems to say that people would notice and be complaining if there were a 'pointless' Quadrupling of the price just to make it a liquid. I read somewhere about more concentration in them, something IDK but i personally believe there has got to be some explanation or difference that at least would explain at least a chunk of the price increase. But i can not be sure. Maybe it is a small combination of all of those things, who knows.


    Yeah idk, i never looked at anything to do with M,G,B, so i cant really comment.

    I've been to so many sites seen so many prices of these nutes and pics on the bottles its hard to know what is real anymore. I had allready sent an inquirey to AN threw email, they take forever to get to ur emails, like a week or more, but i dont feel like calling, its not close enough to purchase date yet for that.

    But i inquired about where i can get the most up to date nutrients, and weither the pictures on their site were up to date or not. With it not just being readily available in the US its hard to say with only skimming internet pics.

    But like Im mostly talking about additives, the ph perfect pics they have on hydrosource are the right ones. But the bundles arent. If you look at the 'bigger yields flowering system' thing on the AN site, like go to the calculator , put in grand master and click the names of the additives , it will open them in new tabs , those I hope.. are the most up to date pics available.

    Some examples would be Piranha , the old one is red and the new one is all colorful and a bone fish.

    Nirvana is a chick instead of cartoon gandi

    Voodoo juice isnt a flower and a candle anymore its a bunch of other crap lol

    Tarantula has went threw 3 labels , newest i think of which is all colorful, not all black with just a spider like the other two.

    Bud candy 'i think' the new one is the kid eating cotton candy , not the pink crystly background.

    Thats just to name the ones i can think of from memory atm.

    These would all be great things that could be sorted out of one just called up AN and didnt hang up untill we knew. but i'll just procrastinate that till its close to time for me to order, or if i find out from u lmao

    Cus idk if they just did new bottles... or if its new formula, Pirhana says new formula strait up. So idk whats happening its chaos lol. Time will tell



    Ya idk what ur getting at, because i have no clue how liberal a re seller can be based on a manufacturers recommended sale price. Nor do i know if huge places like hydrosource can get better deals than smaller places that cant buy as much at one time. But i sense another thing to learn lol but from what i gather from the site, hydro source sells a bit cheaper than the MSRP


    Yeah thats retardiculous 20 a g all the way up. I'll be doin 280 an O probably. But then again i do not yet fully grasp they ins and outs of being a caregiver, only the basics. Figured i'll work that out when i go see a lawyer. As i do not have peeps anywhere near law enforcement to inform me lol. The law is so shitty and vauge lol.

    As far as helping patients goes, I'll need to find some patients to buy my milk before i start giving away cows lol So untill then all my cows go to the internet, lol well mostly grass city.


    I agree 100% I surely hope this is what we are getting when we do this new fan dangled Super pot explosion extreme bundle from AN lol


    ^^ this.. IF not .. then i guess experiments dont stop at what nute company i use. Clearly GH is fuxed with how u described how much u have to alter their instructions. An seems to stand behind their instructions.. i suppose only time will tell.


    I think you might have just described me. Again only time will tell, but I am and are doing all of those things lol All-tho i dont expect to do that well my first try. I'm certainly not ruling it out as a possibility


    Yeah.. defiantly i mean that is what were paying for after all, i dont want to have to be able to trust in my own science and research and develpoment department. thats why AN gets the money lol I want someone constantly telling me / selling my what is scientifically best for my buds. All thats left is prove that An is doing that, if not the job gets harder (but cheaper) from there.


    Yeah thats were you and i are different, I will care about every detail, weither its a meter on a wall or the color of my leaves. Thats is also where you have me at a disadvantage, you have the experience. I learn quickly, and i retain knowledge, but i have not already seen these things take place, but i will lol

    That reminds me, did u answer whether or not u used c02 in ur last scrog? If so can u hit me up with the name of that thread, or a link , i need to see how scrog and c02 work together, because all my research was done under the assumption that i wasnt going to use c02, but i probably will. So like i have to account for things. I was going to screen at 21" which is about half the height i have, and flip when the screen was full of tops that were the same height... but With C02 at 2000 ppm rumple veg's for like 10 days and flips lights at like only HALF the way to the screen. And he sure doesn't come up short, his nugs hug his lamp every time. Thats my backup plan if testing is the worst thing that has ever happend, tuck and run , mimic rumple lol cheap 3 part lucas formula , he figured in at like 17 bucks an O lol

    I dont know what else to think. Ive never seen buds as big as his in a scrog, and ive never seen Scrogs with screens set up as high as him. I feel that likely cant be a coincidence. Im guessing longer / taller branch for the bud, more ways to feed the bud (wider branch) so bigger bud, i have no clue lol. thoughts? Its also factors like this that i wonder about with side by side testing of nutes, what if AN would have done better if u had vegged differently and had the screen higher, with a higher overall height. Idk but it seems logical to me.


    Rite.. if only life were more simple , 'need' is so relative and everyone says they are the best, leaving us no choice but to 'find out' for ourselves.


    Thanks for the info, i just didnt know where to start, looked up purity locations, have one within an hours drive. Closer would still be better because of having to leave it over night. Or having to rent 2 per box, being 48 bux a month on top of refills. I hear like Pepsi distributors or Coke distributors are really cheap, or Fire Extinguisher places. Idk how to find these places tho as i do not know what they are called specifically. So cant see if any are closer to me than Purity Cylinder Gases lol

    lol yea.. me too but still doesn't make it the best place ever lol



    Seems like a fair cure time to me. What is ur cure process , like times opening and for how long and such. Everyone seems to do it differently , and i cant really zero in on the most efficient method for actually turning the inactive thc into active thc. Im sure if u follow the most efficient method for that , the smell and taste will just come naturally. Not sure how i'll cure / dry yet. Still just some ideas

    Oh random question, do you use RO water with ur side by side? im guessing probably yes



    Yeah i intend to.

    and i dont really, lol idk im just an overly cautious person. Worried about tiny discrepantsies in the law and things of that nature. Like i wont have a bunch of micro gros for my patients , i'll have two grows total, they will harvest amounts that could be over what i can have , depending on if i have patients yet or not, or if i have enough. Idk if i count as one of my 5 allowed patients, or if thats seperate.. IF its seperate, than even with max patients i can only have 15 oz (2.5 per patient and me) I could harvest as much as 2 lbs each box , once a month. Even if i do stay in perfect range.. Idk when it becomes 'useable' if im curing for 6 months for example, thats probably concidered smokeable, so if i have 5, 6 cures going cus i do 6 month cures, and if its considered useable at that time im WaAYY over what im allowed to have. I just cant set up a gro for each patient, i dont have the space. So these things worry me. I dont think anyone would ever be around , counting, and questioning it, but i want to be fully legal with it, but the law doesn't make that the easiest task ever. Also i dont even know if im enterpiteing the law correctly, I plan on seeking legal council before starting, your allready in it, whats ur thoughts? Nice that ur in the same state lol exact same law


    LOL thats shits funny.. Idk i wish i had that confidence. Also with remaining anonymous, anything that is done in my tests would be judged only by the tests, and not by possible opinions, like thinking its less credible because of my age (23), or stupid shit like that. Probably would never happen, but this is what happens when you have way too much time to spend high thinking about all of this shit that cant even start happening for another 2-3 months (funds.. as i refuse to do it anyway but nearly perfect).


    True.. but still.. its still kinda on topic, if i were perusing this thread in 3 months from now id get informed about ur side by side that (by that time) will show very useful info that is relatively on topic.

    Sorry it took so long to respond, i had this message up and slowly worked on it over the course of like 2 days lol ADD got the best of me there, went off on a tangent researching closed growing environments, and portable ac, and backdraft dampners and what ones are best, trying to find out if the 'cape' ones (google it if u dont know) work well at keeping co2 inside , they look like they would, but at the same time idk

    Anyways, lol ttyl

    EDIT: lol went and checked out ur scrog, i had allready looked the entire thread over before, got there and remembered everything from the flexible screen idea , all the way to the unfortunate flooding. So ya what i was saying about screens above..... urs was 8" , what will your max height be for ur scrog? Even scrogging , plants reaching full potential can get from like 4-5' tall still. (from the tops of the buckets) May want to think long and hard about screen placement, i cant say it will make a difference for sure, but it sure seems like it could.

    You were saying u will place the screen next time , after veg and then tuck for another 20 or so days. Idk how that will work with co2, I can only reference rumple as he's the one with the most impressive scrogg ive seen, but like i was sayin above, he flips lights when the plants still have like 10 inches till they reach the screen , he has his clone diled in to the day. If you see his scrogs u see like 20+ inches of bare branches under the screen , with like 2 and a half foot buds on top. This i have never seen anywhere , ive seen maybe 1 and a half foot buds at most, and as i was saying above ive never seen a screen as high as rumples. Makes me curious , i am here to learn after all.
     

  3. No, did not do Co2 last time...

    Ya, I'm not doing a "fixed screen" this round...
    So if push comes to shove (like last time), I'm going to be able to raise the screen..

    It's all strain dependent...
    Last scrog I was expecting a 20 day stretch, but the stretch lasted 30 days, and ended up with a Rumple scrog...

    I'm wanting to end up like a Dan Dare scrog...
    Also, going to be using Sensi Star which does not get a lot of stretch..
    (Mostly Indica with a hint of Sativa)

    But Dan does not use Co2...
    Thus why I'm not going to do a fixed screen...


    Next round will be SOG and be done with 8 plants per nutrient..
    So if I have to retest AN Vs. GH, so be it...
    Which I may do right after this round, so to get two points of view...


    I use Google Maps, search bottled gas, then start calling...


    Seems like a fair cure time to me. What is ur cure process , like times opening and for how long and such. Everyone seems to do it differently , and i cant really zero in on the most efficient method for actually turning the inactive thc into active thc. Im sure if u follow the most efficient method for that , the smell and taste will just come naturally. Not sure how i'll cure / dry yet. Still just some ideas[/quote]
    I usually use a 4-5 day hang time, then jar them up...
    I can get about 1-1/2 Oz per jar, then I toss in a hydrometer in the jars...
    I'm looking for 60% RH and for the smaller stems to snap...
    At that point, I can stop venting the jars and let it set to cure...


    Not now with the mothers I'm not...
    I have one coming and should be here on the 28th..
    My last one was damaged in the great flood of 2011, so I left it behind..




    Each township sets their own laws..
    GR is pretty clear as to what they want to see...

    As far as "usable", the plants are NOT usable unless they are free of toxic gases... These toxic gases can harm the already sick... So you have to label when it was taken, what patient it is for, and when it is going to be usable... It usually takes 45 days to rid the medication of toxic gases..

    Also another reason I use hydrometers in the jars (and why I use jars over tubs)... Because after a 15 minute vent of the gases, if the RH of the jar has risen the next day from the recorded RH AFTER the last venting, that PROVES the medication is still releasing gases...

    Also another reason I chose to use HERB.IQ
    Because it allows me to not only track exactly what patient the medication is for, but also allows me to record all of this data in one place for my "inspections"... So I can prove the medication is still not in a usable form, because by recording RH levels, and then seeing a rise in RH over a 24 hour period, it PROVES the medication is still releasing it's toxic gases..


    Dude, the police are people too, they put their pants on, eat, shit, fart, fuck, etc. the same as we all do... I never understood why people get so freaked out because of a piece of tin pined to a shirt...

    Maybe they do not scare me because I grew up with them all around me and all the time too...

    But on the other hand, if the cop comes off as "I am the law" (in a deep Sylvester Stallone "Judge Dredd" voice), my attitude completely changes from "hey bro, what's up" to "fuck you MF, I'll make you suck my dick like the bitch you arrrrrr"....

    Last time I ran into a "I am the law" cop, I got pulled over for doing 60 in a 35 zone, so he pulls me out of the car, clearly "all pissed off", so he says turn around, and I do, he hand cuffs me, and walks me to the car, does the quick search, open the door and says get in, and pushes me...

    So I ask, "what am I being charged with sir", he says "whatever I want, get in the fucking car", so I said, "fuck you, I have the right to know what I'm being charged with".... So he grabs me by the throat, and screams in my ear, "get on the ground" and yanks the handcuffs so hard it broke my wrist...

    Oh it's on now Judge Dredd... LMFAO
    Well 8-10 squid cars, and like 20 fricken cops later, then being sprayed, and then tazzered a few times, I'm in the car... hahahahaha

    After reviewing the tapes, the prosecutor was like :eek: charged me with simply resisting an officer, and without violence, because everything after me not getting in the car was self defense... Spent 1 night in jail and sentenced to time served... ;)

    I'm the nicest guy in the world, but you fucking push me, and you better be prepared to fight, because I do not give a shit who you arrrrrrrr or what kind of tin you're wearing at the time... ;)


    It does, but I SHOULD HAVE BEEN sent 90/10 Indica/Sativa..
    It ended up being NOT what they claimed, and I bet that I was sent someone's bag seed..


    Well growth patters will tell me where and when to place the screen...
    Again, I'm not going to the "fixed at so many inches" screen...

    I'm thinking after 20 days veg, put the screen on at the tops, then scrog for 20-25 days... Again Sensi Star normally does not stretch that much, but Co2 is going to give them a stretch boost...

    :wave:
     
  4. #65 WillGroElite420, Dec 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2011
    Ya thats a good way to do it, that way u can descide along the way where is the right spot for the screen.

    Sound reasoning, and pretty scrog pics , lol I kinda laughed cus i saw your set up side by side thing before those pics u just linked , u can see the resemblense between his setup and urs lol

    I like the way your aproaching it. Sounds like everything should be pretty fair.

    Thanks :hello: i'll look into this

    Interesting, never heard of anyone doing this why 60% RH im sure there is science behind it , i may have to look into this as well.
    How often do you vent the jars? ive heard some ppl say 4 times daily, and others say once every few days, Ive been having a hard time assertaining which is the scientifically better way to do it , to bring out flavors and potency the best... Do you flip your buds when you open each time?

    So if u cure for 3 months then 45 more days it would be useable and thus needs to be counted, so if i cured for 6 months and had two more cures reach the same point before the first is done , i'll be screwed as far as legal goes. This part sucks lol Also are we supposed to do what with overages? The law is so shitty lol IMO we should be able to have as much as our patients will need untill the next batch will be done. While also accounting for the posibility of the next batch dying. Once the next batch survives, THEN we should have to dispose of anything left from the previous batch. however long / much that would be, (within reason) I fear this part is going to be the most complicated part of the whole ordeal. Ironically

    Right which is great to be able to prove things like that, Thats how i want to have my situation set up , but i just fear that my setup and intricisies of the law will butt heads.

    Yeah but like i was just sayin , if i can't follow the law to a T without comprimiseing some experiments i plan on doing, its going to require me to do slightly shady things to be able to stay within the confinds of the law. Which would leave very brief windows of acuall illegal activity that I could get arrested for. I dont know the full extent of any of that yet, till i get legal council and put more thought into it, but its that sort of thing that staying anonymous helps ease my mind , cus im not going to do anything actually Illegal , like sell to non patients like alot of people do. So i wont have outside things to attract attention to my grow, so i figure keeping as many aspects hush hush , so to speak, just helps ensure that if i do have to do some finageling to be able to do my tests, or 6 month cure for personal, or things like that, I'll have no reason for anyone to be inspecting or questioning what im doing. Hopefully.. bah, what a headache

    Lol that shits funny lol

    Yeah that doesnt sound like a plesant experience, Worries me cus i read somewhere u got fucked by Attitude twice or something, Ur one of the only people ive heard definatly negitive things about attitude from. (at least i think it was u) Sucks cus thats where i plan to order my seeds from, guess i'll just have to take the plunge and hope for the best.

    Yeah it will be nice to have you to compair to a rumple scrog, as you will be to the scrogging part before i am , likely. Will help me learn a little more before im actually doing it myself. It helps cus, if get all my seeds what i actually order. Rumple's set up will match mine almost to the T , not counting some details, but the important ones. And he uses White Widow. Which is what im gonna grow.

    Oh and the Hydro source website is updated now, Prices are now exactly what i figured, within like 10 bux give or take with all the other places. ur lookin at like 150 bux more than what u saw before when saying they had the cheapest nutes. I can actually (for exactly what im gonna use) get it 10 bux cheaper for the total order, from somewhere else, but i likely wont , id rather support a US buisness , to help the MMJ industry , even tho they 'claim' to have no intentions of ppl growing pot, they do, lol we just call it tomatoes, but ya, the more time goes by the more im confused at what pictures on what bottles of the additives are the newest ones. I'm gonna have to call AN and ask or something lol. Cus even them on their site show the same pics as hydro source and everywhere else for the bundles , but if u go into individual producs , Nirvana, Bud candy, Voodoo Juice, Tarantula, Bud Factor X, Rhino Skin, to name several are all different pictures than in the bundles. Its likely AN being lazy on site maintainense , sucks cus now i have to make sure at some point lol.

    I'm out :bongin: :bolt:
     

  5. Well not a whole lot of resemblance, Dan used 2.1' x 5.4' tents, where my chamber is 2.10' x 7.10' (two 3' x 4' sides for each nutrient).. Then he is pushing 90w per sq, where I'm pushing 81w per sq.

    He is using DWC tubs with a header tank and I'm using RDWC buckets with a reservoir.. His setup is 2' off the ground, where mine sets at ground level...


    60% is the buds still retain enough moisture so they do not crumble when you break them up, and get a nice even slow burn.. They also seem to not be as harsh if smoked in a paper, or bowl... Also they give off a smoother steam if put in a vaporizer, and do not vaporize as quick then the dryer buds do.

    The venting depends on what the RH is at...
    So when I first put them in the jars, if my RH hits 75%, they come back out for 24hrs more..
    If they are between 75-70%, I vent every 12 hrs for about an hour..
    Once they are between 70-65% I vent every 24hrs for again about a half hour.
    If they stay at 60% after 24hrs, then you can safely smoke them and store without any mold issues forming...


    Well as far as I'm concerned the medication is usable in about 45 days...
    Yes, the longer cure will bring out some more flavors, but we're not growing for taste, we're growing to rid the patient of pain...

    IMPO, it could testes like shit, but if it takes my pain away, I could careless...
    Great example are aspirins.....
    Do you suck on them and let them melt in your mouth???
    Of course not, because they taste like shit, but if that is the case, then why do you use them??
    Because they rid you of pain.... Right???

    Same thing with herbal medication...
    This is where you have to change your thinking...

    Sure it would be nice to have a good tasting medication, but is that the REAL purpose of the medication we produce.. Because I have to say NO...

    IMHPO, that is one of the issues which separates drug dealers from caregivers...
    If you think about it, a drug dealer wants the "weed" to taste better than the next drug dealer, so more customers buy his/her's over the next drug dealers' "weed"...

    I'M NOT SELLING "WEED", I'm creating medication to help rid the patient of pain, help them to eat, help them to hold down the food when they do eat, and the list goes on and on... Again, yes I try to make it so the medication does not make them puke when they take it, but taste is not my goal...


    Documentation is what will keep you out of jail...
    Are we caregivers and the law going to butt heads????
    Absolutely!!!! BUT remember, the state (or Federal) prosecutor HAS to "prove beyond a reasonable doubt", and 12 people have to believe that, because all you need is 1 person which don't believe he/she proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt...

    With the correct documentation, I guarantee there is going to be at least 1 person which does not believe your a drug dealer manufacturing for profit..


    Again, you have to change your thinking, because if you don't and God forbid you were to be "inspected", you thinking along the lines of "selling", or "oh it's just a little over" is going to put you in a spot that you cannot prove right then and there "you're within the law"...

    Oh and my "overages" are put into eatables...
    Mostly butter spreads unless the patient is going to be there to make something with me...

    Then the patient can use the butter spread on crackers, breads, etc., or add to anything they wish to bake, such as cookies, cakes, etc. etc. IN THEIR OWN HOME!!! Because I'm not licensed to make baked goods nor do I want to go through the health department inspections to allow me to also be a bakery, eatery, etc....

    There are people giving away "overages" on Craigslist for "donations", but IMO, they are going to be going to jail soon on the next sweep raid... Which my sources tell me is coming sooner than people think...

    If you think about it, they are giving it away, well first off, the transfer of medication between patients and caregivers is forbidden by law...

    Then let's set that aside, OK they are giving it away, so give me some then!!!! OH WAIT, I cannot get none if I do not "make a donation"???

    So if I have to give you money (a donation) to get some medication, what just happened???
    You just sold me some medication when you were not my caregiver...
    The Feds JUST raided a shit load of places for doing the same thing!!!


    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'm thinking its a fucking duck...
    What you think???? :confused:

    Hello, is this thing on??? Tap, Tap, Tap.... ;)


    Ya, it happens...
    Once I got a COMPLETELY different order, and another time, nothing at all...



    IMO Rumple is not doing a SCRoG, he is just using the screen to keep the budding arms separated so they get light on all sides...


    Ya prices change, but can you point me to a cheaper place within the US that does not bang you in the ass on shipping charges???

    So total bill to the door.... ;)

    :wave:
     

  6. Good to know, looks like i'll have to be getting some hydrometers and some large jars.


    And now i have to only do confirmation research on it instead of starting at the bottom, ty lol


    Well first off, thats exactly my point, its not about flavor. There is science behind turning inactive thc into active thc , flavor is a bonus, i just want to test and figure how long of a cure provides the most potent medication.

    As far as letting it taste like shit and not careing , thats just thinking i will never change. Cus even tho i will be a caregiver, I'm also a patient first. Before i was a patient i was just a user because it helped problems (pre 2008) and before that i was just a recreational user, before i developed the problems that i now treat. So yeah, could i just make something that tasted like an asprin and went down harsh and hit you hard? sure, but i never will, this will be as much an entertaining hobby to me as it will be anything else. Finding the ways to make the herb the best it can be is basically my only reason for being interested in any experimentation whatsoever. I'm All about efficiency. I do not agree that makes me akin to a drug dealer , becasue i want my herb to taste good so that I want to smoke it over the next guy's. Also there aren't quality caregivers around here.. mostly because people are in it for the money, i aim to be the opposite, sure the money is helpful , but im not some A-hole out there charging my patients 560 an O.

    And sure, I won't be "SELLING WEED" either.. but that doesnt mean i try to be perfect any less.. i do want to be the best i can possibly be for myself and my patients. If they can get the best quality, best tasting medicine available, in my opinion that is 'A' class treatment, and that is my goal. To provide personal connoisseur quality medication, from a patient for patients. That also then prepares me for competition if weed ever becomes legal and needs to be bulk sold to distributors. Or if for some reason we got dispensaries back again, with clearer laws.


    Right i understand the situation im in, thats why im complaining about it lmao I would never be thinking in terms of 'selling' , its just frustrating that the laws tie our hands so much, i feel i could provide a much more solid service to my patients if i were allowed to have like i said before, enough to ensure my patients were supplied up untill the next crop completes. Each patient can only get 2.5 oz at a time, id imagine my paperwork would have to reflect this, or im knowingly letting them break the law.. , but what if they need 4 oz a month and i only have a batch ready once a month. Must i time it down to the final gas relese date, and have half of it to them and store the rest they may or may not need under the 2.5 oz im allowed to have for each patient. These are the kinds of things i plan to discuss with a lawyer, i wont move forward without being fully secure legally, I fully intended on keeping very detailed paperwork and notes, and labeling. I also plan to stay within the law 100%, it is just going to make things more complicated and frustrating than they aught to be.

    Lets just give an example.. say i harvest 1.5 lbs every month skipping every third month, and say a 6 month cure was the best studied way to make the most potent , tasty meds. Once im up and running things would be flawless if allowed to do what i would prefer (odviously gonna have to do some kind of figureing to make it workable legally)

    say i did this with two sets of 6 plants, and 6 mothers, and 6 clone spots
    I can then stay (which is all the space i have atm will allow) 24 plants instead of 60-72 (depending on if i count as one of my own patients or not)

    I would then be able to get enough medication for an entire year done within 8 months and it would end curing right at proper times, id always have backup meds in case something went wrong like mold or pests. And id be WAYYY under federal radar at 24 plants instead of 72 its the weight limit that screws us.


    See i did not know this. I figured i could just make some shit up if i wanted and give it to patients lol Good to know. Kinda dumb, now knowing, that i didn't conciser it a possibility. The butter is a good idea, as it makes it unsmokeable, I'd probably do a combo of butters and hash, even tho the hash would have to be counted weight wise, it stilll condenses things. As far as i know there are no specific laws on concentrates. You know of any?


    Yeah, thats just dumb, id never do that. God if ur gonna sell illegally , dont paint it like a clown and call it good lol If ur allready breaking the law like that , might as well be selling to family and close friends where u wont get noticed, not all out in the open on the prostitue website, Hey give me a hummer for some sold out concert tickets. lol nah I'll definatly be crafting my overages into something to stay within the law.

    Essentially, im assuming, people who do that craigslist bs are approaching it like an escort service.. if they can make it in the phonebook , they they can do it on craigslist lol I mean cmon we all know those are prostitutes that 'claim' they are just going to dinner with these dudes and anything that happens in the bedroom afterwords is 'consentual' Ahem.. i mean 'donation' Wait which shady group were we talking about again? lol



    Yeah that's terrible , I hope me ordering with guaranteed shipping within a tshirt will eliminate those kinds of problems, if i dont get it they send it out again. I wonder if your second one got picked up by customs, i hear sometimes they don't even send out the letters anymore.



    Now see.. IMO i have to disagree, and here is why. As he does use his screen to keep branches separated , i don't feel that takes away and makes it less of a scrog. It is just a less conventional scrog. As he still has tops hit the screen and spreads them out further by the day pulling under and going to new holes so the slower tops can fill the screen , keeping them all level before letting them grow up. So therefore he is using the screen to its intended purpose , to make an even canopy. Even tho he didnt scrog in the convential sense he is still using the screen as any other scrogger would, just a bit differently, and with maximizing his plant potential to height ratio.. which alot of scrogs do not do. So since its a screen... he uses it to train just like anyone, and it is green, can we really call it any less of a Screen of Green than anyone else?


    Yeah... when i said i could get it 10 bux cheaper, that was 100% out the door, free shipping. But it would only be free since u have to order so much , i think its free over 750, and the grandmaster puts us at over 800.

    However like i said before, irregardless id still prefer a US business. Especially for when i need to replace things from my bundle like b-52 that will use up one liter before my grow is over, Where tarantula and piranha will last 3 grows with a little left over. So thats where the shipping would really come into play. Also like i said, i like supporting the MMJ system, even tho they say they aren't mmj affiliated, hydro source wouldn't exists without it (i bet)

    I was just tryin to break the bad news to ya easy , if u hadn't already noticed on ur own.


    ^^ What he said ^^ lol
     
  7. Man this thread is getting LONG as fuck!!! :D
    But, it's just cool chatting with ya about different shit....

    I'm sure no one is reading this, because usually when I run into long threads like this I'm like :eek:
    and use the back button.... LOL


    Ya they make it nice because it tells you exactly what state your medication is in during the drying/curing process..

    I got a few of these...
    Wireless Digital Thermo Hygrometer



    Ya, the law does not see your point of view...
    Especially cops!!
    In their eyes, if it's in a jar, it's usable, they DO NOT care about any documentation....
    They will arrest you and let a judge sort it out...

    But the documentation is what is going to save you maybe years of jail time, if not having your MMMJ card revoked, and have a felony on your record...


    Remember, the patient can have 2.5 Oz at a time, and you can hold 2.5 Oz per patient at a time..... So if the patient wants to come over 50 times a day, you can give them 2.5 Oz at a time (wet or dry)... What they do with it after that is on them, not you...

    I know when I was in VT, (you're only allowed 1 patient), but I would not even get them hung yet, and every 30 minutes or so, he was picking up 2.5 Oz... Which was great, because even though I cropped 3lbs at a time, it was NOT usable (so I was covered), and it would be gone before the end of the day....


    See above....
    Again, as long as it is NOT usable, there is no weight limit, and nothing in the law says that a patient cannot pickup wet weed... I have already told my patients that they can come and get 2.5 Oz at a time right after it's cut...

    Again, what they do with it after it leaves my establishment is none of my concern or business... ;)


    Nope, nothing in the law about eatables...
    ONLY making them, because if you're making food products, you need to get a Food Service License...

    What I do is buy a tub of butter (I'm not making it), extract the thc from the weed, then churn it into the butter... The good thing about this is the police see a tub of brownish looking butter and think nothing of it...

    But spread it on a couple crackers, and WOW...
    It also works great for the patients which want to make their own eatables at home.


    Ya it happens...
    Some people have never been burned, and with my luck, seems it happens all the time.. LOL




    And I have to disagree with you... LOL
    You can do the SAME THING using LST and tying the branches to the side a little..
    IMO a SCRoG is the SAME THING as SOG and should not be 3' tall...




    If you order from Canada, the US Customs can seize your product if they catch it...

    To be honest, I have had such good experiences with th hydro source over the years, even if they were 50 bucks more, I still would order from them...


    Oh and they are running an End Of Year sale....
    15% off everything in the store!!!
    Coupon code: 2012

    Just plug that in when checking out....


    I just got the email last night....
    I'm signed up for the "promotion" emails.... ;)


    :smoke:
     
  8. sorry... i cant read that wall-o-text right now... what site is this coupon for???

    I might wanna shop for free shipping... but i for some reason cannot read all this writing right now
     

  9. LMFAO..... Sorry for the WALL... :eek:

    The Hydro Source
    Coupon code: 2012


    :wave:
     
  10. Its The Hydro Source

    I think he said something about free shipping eirlier as well with the advanced nutrient ph perfect stuff at least.

    The wall of text is just us BSing lol
     
  11. I don't mind the bs....in fact I actually enjoy it....

    But when I'm agitated its hard to concentrate

    Thanks for the heads up on the coupon...I thought I was signed up for their news letter....I might need to re up or something...I'm definitely shopping though
     

  12. The email come in last night at 9:06pm..

    Maybe you did not check the box in your profile on their site..
    :confused_2:
     
  13. Holy crap. I have never seen so much attention to detail in posts before.

    When do you guys actually have time to grow? ;)
     
  14. #75 WillGroElite420, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2012
    lol i know right, lucky for me im not started growing yet. Cus i cant help but getting caught up on details lol We kinda derailed topic wise a bit lol , so if you read all the way through this then bravo lol
     

Share This Page