A comparison showing MSM treatment of Sotomayor/Kagen and Roberts

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Dronetek, May 11, 2010.

  1. #1 Dronetek, May 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2010
    I'll make this quick and easy:

    Flashback to Flashback: Nets Were Quick to Tag Alito and Roberts as 'Ultra' and 'Hardline' 'Conservatives'

    However, when it comes to Obama's picks:

    ABC's Moran Claims Conservatives Backing Kagan, No Peep of Criticism During Special Report

    Sotomayor Flashback #1 of 3: On First Night She Prompted More 'Conservative' Than 'Liberal' Labels

    Sotomayor Flashback #2 of 3: On 2nd Night, CBS Decided Sotomayor No Liberal: 'Can't Be Easily Defined by Political Labels'

    CBS's Schieffer: Elena Kagan 'Eminently Qualified,' But 'Nasty' GOP Will Oppose Her

    Sotomayor Flashback #3 of 3: Cloaked as 'Both Sides,' Nets Pushed 'Abortion Rights' Advocates' Concerns

    Stephanopoulos Throws Softballs to Former Top Obama Aide, Lets Him Mislead on Kagan’s Anti-Military Decisions

    Newsweek Portrays Kagan As 'Poised' Nominee Who 'Won't Please Right or Left'

    CBS's Rodriguez to Kagan Friend Eliot Spitzer: Is Moderate Label 'Accurate'?

    CNN's Toobin Says He Was In Kagan's Study Group at Law School, But Her Views are a 'Mystery' to Him?

    Do you see the pattern? For Roberts, all the MSM united in labeling him a hard right conservative. When its a left winger, they all unite to label them moderate or even right wing, when there is no evidence to justify such a label.
  2. Oh the evil MSM.
    I wonder how often I can condemn the liberal MSM. Wow, even just typing MSM is satisfying. I will just continue talking about the MSM.


    Seriously, I'd think you were autistic or something.
  3. Translation: I have no argument to refute your claim, so instead I'm going to throw a temper tantrum.

    Sorry this isn't about fox, which I'm sure you would be much more interested in. Here I'm giving you proof our media is one step away form state run propaganda and all you can do is whine. :rolleyes:

    Obama and his lap dogs complain about Fox and blogs nearly every single day. Do you think hes autistic?

  4. Not really, I don't care much about this topic, I just have stated (and I have done so in the past) that I find your obsession with the term MSM funny because it makes you look just a bit special when you use it so much.

    And they're not calling them RADICAL or EXTREME LIBERAL because the fact is that they aren't. If the left in this nation were more radical or extreme, we'd be Europe. We are not. American politics are a lot more center-right, and that makes our left wing a lot less liberal (look at Obama, you think all his policies are extremely liberal, really? Like offshore drilling? No universal healthcare? War in Afghanistan still continuing?).

    Furthermore, I've come to realize that one can't expect anything from you because you just deny the flat out truth, like your insistence on the fact that 'la raza' refers only to skin color and race, even though I tried to explain otherwise, and you denied all testaments from Spanish speakers (La raza - WordReference Forums , another good link showing you how you were being a fool). Then you had the nerve to type some really crappy Japanese and claimed you understood it lol. Yeah, you think I only post cause I am....threatened by you. I just find you a joke, a hilarious joke.


  5. So, I'll ask again. Do you find the Obama administration to be "special"? They complain about Fox News and blogs that aren't nice to them every single day. Obama frets about not being able to control information for fuck sake! What do you think about that?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3nBuKWbs3M]YouTube - Obama Blames Blogs For Inability to Connect[/ame]
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AEt180Wnls]YouTube - Anita Dunn: Fox News Is "Research Arm of the Republican Party"[/ame]
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLDSF8CSwI]YouTube - White House Attacks Fox News: Obama's Katrina[/ame]

    So tell me, so you feel the same way about the white house?

    Huh? The point is that they unite to attack all Republican nominees as radicals, where as they go out of their way to paint Democrat appointees as moderate.
  6. I just read all the posts, they came to the same conclusion I did. "Raza" is referring to "the people" of common ancestry and ethnic background. Which is what race is defined as. It's not talking about all people of all walks of life.

    One kid from Spain even said the word has negative connotations in his country.

    Oh, and this forum is voluntary, you don't have to post here. Do you ever see conservative posters going into liberal threads just to try and belittle the poster, and not the content? It's really weird how you Obama supporters act.

    Not surprising though, it's the same tactic taken by the liberal wing of corporate media. Instead of attacking the ideology of balanced budgets and personal/economic liberties they attack frivilous attributes of talk show hosts or political celebrities espousing those ideas.

  7. No, I don't give a shit. You can't handle questions, I saw that in the last thread I dealt with you in.

    Look at the countries with the highest Human Development Index ranking. Look at their politics. The reason liberals unite to 'attack' Republicans as radicals is because, when we actually put it into perspective, Republicans are very radical compared to the rest of the developed world (we're the 'leader of the free world' and they want to destroy the secularity this nation was built on, how counter-progressive, and how radical of the Republicans).
  8. So, as long as its the white house targeting media and "exposing" them, you're ok with it. Its when citizens expose the media that bows at the alter of Obama that triggers your hissy fits?

    And there you have it. Sopost is a product of the media I'm trying to expose here. The MSM spews this propaganda, because they know they are having an effect on guys like this. Hes a true believer, no different than someone who worships Fox News.

  9. Ugh, I love how you looked for the single one that supported what you wanted to hear instead of just listening to the fucking Spaniard. Did you even look what the Argentinian said?

    'La raza = The people, the community, "nuestros paisanos", all the people in a closed system being it a country, a province or a city.'

    Hm, what is that familiar to? And you realize that connotations can change amongst dialects? Everyone is telling that it means the community, so can you just accept it already instead of just looking like a jerk when you thought 'people' was 'personas' (in many senses you wouldn't use that world, you'd use gente or pueblo).

    And 'the people' or 'the community', referring to a specific one, does NOT have the same connotations as race. The problem is you have no knowledge about Spanish (clearly, High School didn't do it for you) nor linguistics, so you aren't aware of the gigantic and wrong leap you made. There is a big big difference. One can use 'la raza' to mean 'the Chicano community, the Chicano people', but it isn't meant in the same way that 'the German race, the African race' comes off as in English. Something you just don't get, which makes your monolingualism apparent, is that translations are never perfect, and there is no complete correspondence between meanings and connotations between languages.

    'We recognize that some people might be confused about our organization's name, our mission, and our work. Much of this is understandable. Compared to some of our venerable counterparts in the civil rights and advocacy community, we are a relatively young institution representing Latinos, a historically disadvantaged and often misunderstood ethnic minority. We have a Spanish term in our name, “La Raza” (meaning “the people” or “community”), which is often mistranslated. Furthermore, we are engaged in some of the most controversial issues of our time, which we believe is essential if we are to stay true to our mission.' - National Council of La Raza: Viewpoints

    They even CLARIFY this for you, but you conservatives still try to make it seem racist, especially by claiming that the use of 'the people' or 'the community' is inherently exclusionary, yet you here no cries of racism when you hear 'The American People' or 'the Jewish community'.

    I am perfectly aware it is voluntary, and I posted because I found it entertaining. Dronetek can't hold an argument, he's made that apparent numerous times, and I enjoy calling attention to his inability to be reasoned with in the hours of the morning before my friends wake and I am still sick. As for the conservative posters going into liberal threads, are you fucking kidding me? Dronetek, Salvial, Sir Elliot, what the fuck are you on?

    Even YOU. You claim to be independent but you without fail take on the conservative side of any thread or argument (yet deny it). It's really weird how you 'independents' can't just admit that you're the same thing.

    Oh, and guess what! I DON'T support Obama (only in opposition to any Republican/McCain/Palin, and that is only because I am a citizen that cares about the secular nature of the nation), way to make an ass out of u and me!
  10. #10 sopostmodernn, May 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2010
    Nope, cause I don't care about Obama, I don't support him. I mean, I have made this clear, but whatever. No, I don't care about Obama, I just hate FOX because of it's radical religious nature. Perhaps I wouldn't care if they didn't align themselves with Christianity so much, but they do, and I don't tolerate that.

    ... Ohhhhh, barukh ha'shemmmmmmmm

    No. I am a middle eastern studies major that happens to read a lot of UN Reports, Human Development rankings, and other such boring documents that let you know a lot about how the countries of the world are fairing, and consistently countries with more left leaning politics in Europe, such as Scandinavia, rank highest. Furthermore, I am also a citizen of the E.U. and I have seen much of it, allowing me to know first hand that a) their politics are much less right wing and b) that they have better standards of living.

    You see, the thing is, I am not a product of MSM. You are. Unfortunately for your case, I get my knowledge from all the areas deemed to be appropriate due to my English family and the fact that I actually love what I study, so I have more exposure and knowledge about these things than you seem to.

    Oh, and by the way, how does my statement that if we compare American politics to the politics of the highest developed nations in Europe, we will see a more right wing nature to American politics mean I am indoctrinated by the MSM? Can you explain how that is the only way I could have come up with that? Or do you just use the excuse of the MSM to instantly discredit others?
  11. #11 Dronetek, May 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2010
    What are you? Autistic?

    So let me get this straight. You aren't even American, yet you repeat the left wing media's talking points word for word? You're even more far gone than I originally suspected.

    The first step is admitting you have a problem....

    You see, I'm under no illusions kid. I see all media, including Fox as total propaganda. The problem is, it seems EVERYONE knows this, while people like you attack any person who dare suggest the rest of the media is even worse. You repeat the talking points from these media outlets as fact and you seem to truly believe it.

    Please stop derailing this thread. Start a new one if you want to continue bitching. Its CLEAR that you have no way of responding to the very simple case I've made here. So, why not just admit it instead of these theatrics?

  12. I'll go off the NCLR definition, which defines it as a phrase referring solely to the hispanic ethnicity, which I originally considered a race.

    American People is not an ethnicity like Hispanic people are. We're all individuals here, not part of one "raza".

    I would also consider a group that sought to provide millions in Federal funding to only Jewish communities to be 'racist', or whatever it is that you call a policy prejudiced towards an ethnicity. And I'm Jewish.

    I think it comes from my upbringing in this country that I don't feel such a devoted attachment to my "people", but to all individuals.

    This much is obvious, but his threads don't deserve your mockery (ok, maybe a little :p). He is correct that the media isn't fair. The only reason this could piss you off enough to attack his character (calling him autistic, wtf?) is because you feel the media represents you.

    They'll go into a thread and attack the logic, not the man who's using it. You come in here and instead of disproving his theory you just make fun of him. The same thing is done to me when I post an anti-Obama thread or something of equal "unimportance" to the left wing. The same thing was done to me when I posted anti-Bush threads.

    Independents are smarter than collectivists and usually become libertarian, which is what I would consider myself. Libertarians share a good chunk of philosophy with the established right wing.

    You just support the media being overwhelmingly in his favor, and stifling any criticism of it.
  13. #13 sopostmodernn, May 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2010
    Nope, what about seeing the same religious fundamentalism rising and being supported in the Republican party and conservatives and being scared by it would make you think I was?


    Way to show how immature you are. Again, you are just discrediting me without discrediting my arguments. Grow the fuck up loser.

    See, this is you:

    Dronetek: My eyes are BRIGHT PINK!
    Sopost: No, Dronetek, how the fuck can you think that? Your eyes are not pink. Actually I read a paper about eye color and it turns out that that only...
    Sopost: ...Uhhh....aren't you going to take into account my points at all?
    Drontetek: HE DOESN'T EVEN REALIZE IT!!!!!
    Sopost: ...-_-

    See how much of a retard you look like? Credit for the cause ;)

    Uhh, no, I didn't claim that all media isn't propaganda. Again, you're making fucking assumptions.

    Do you think you can stfu and let people speak for themselves now?

    The problem I have is, is that you support a faction that I think is INFINITELY more stupid than the one in power, and the thing that just really GRINDS MAH GEARS is that they have the same religious ambitions as the Taliban in implementing religious law. (Think of conservative arguments against gay marriage, against evolution, stem cell research, abortion, blah blah blah) I really, really don't like that, so while I acknowledge the left has problems, I generally prefer them over the crazy socially conservative nutjubs that think the US of A is Jesus' favorite place to chill.

    As long as you resort to the childish and transparent tactic of instantly discrediting people with your little MSM bit and still ignoring their arguments, I will do as I like. It's more fun for me anyways.

  14. Well here is the issue. Myself, in the field I am, see no reason to instantly condemn addresses to a specific ethnic community as exclusionary or racist; I just think it is a community actively trying to organize itself an a positive thing. I don't cry racist because, 'HEY MEXICANS, STOP FOCUSING ON ORGANIZING YOUR COMMUNITY, BRING IN POLES AND IRISH PEOPLE TOO!'.

    No, the fact is that ethnic communities often band together on issues (such as the Chinese community in the 80s with the case of Vincent Chin), and most people don't label them racists and see no issue with this, anymore than they would for there to be a St. Patricks day parade without a geisha involved.

    Oh come now, he is ridiculous. He can't address actual arguments so he just discredits people with the MSM arguments. He deserves all the mockery I can dish out and then some. But you don't understand how much I dislike conservative people. Socially, they are never progressive (I'm gay, do you think I might have a special bone to pick with them?), they preach Christian entitlement in this country, and they get hyperbolic when it comes to these race things, making cases where there are none, like the case of 'la raza'. That pisses me the fuck off, where as I don't feel any allegiance to the Democrats that aren't left enough nor aggressive enough to really further my beliefs, so yeah, I do this for me :p.

    Oh please. The things Sir Elliot says are things that I've been told since Kindergarten are utterly unacceptable (Muslim barbarians). That is far from logic.

    No, I don't. I don't like Obama.

    However, it doesn't mean I think there are jillions of reasons for criticism. The issue Dronetek brought up, I believe, isn't valid because Sotomayor and Kagen aren't radical by Western highly developed nations standards. They would never be called radical in Canada, the U.K., Sweden, France, Spain, or Finland. They'd be moderate. It is really the Republicans who have the radical policies if we look from a global (yet still high ranking HDI nations) perspective, and THAT is why I have a problem with this thread. However, instead of arguing with me based on my reason for criticizing the thread, he discredited me by calling me a slave to MSM with no commentary on my actual points. It's childish, immature, and if he ever pulled such an argument in a debate he would be laughed at terribly. That's my problems with Dronetek.
  15. #15 Dronetek, May 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2010
    What arguments have you made? All you've done this entire thread is derail and lob insults.

    More insults in lieu of arguments that have anything to do with this discussion.

    That isn't happening though. Thats just what the far left says to discredit their critics? Look, I dont believe in religion either. Why dont I see the same scary threat of Christans that you do? What about the anti-religion MSM? They have a lot more outlets than the pro-religion Fox. The idea that Republicans in this country are like the Taliban is straight from the kooky left of this country.

    Obama, some Democrats and most of the black population is against gay marriage. Again, you mis-characterize base don left wing media propaganda. It was Clinton, a democrat who implemented dont ask, dont tell.

    You think I'm a Conservative, yet I dont care about gay marriage, believe in evolution, love outer space and science. You know what you're doing? Exactly what you accuse me of later in your whiny post:

    "As long as you resort to the childish and transparent tactic of instantly discrediting people with your little MSM bit and still ignoring their arguments, I will do as I like. It's more fun for me anyways." -sopostmodernn

    More bullshit from Keith Olbermann. Why are liberals so against space travel? Why is Obama taking us back as a species by slashing NASA's budget? Is he against science and progress?

    This coming from a guy who's entire premise is that I'm "autistic". You're such a raging example of projection. Let me know when you come up with arguments that have anything to do with the thread topic.
  16. White groups doing the exact same thing are ALWAYS labeled racist. I challenge you to find me an example otherwise.

    There in lies the hypocrisy. Maybe you just dont understand, because you're not white?

    Huh? You need to actually have an argument to respond to. You just lob childish insults.

    Which I'm not.. At least, not by an definition you could produce.

    Oh, the tried and true left wing tactic of labeling their opinions "progressive" , there by making anyone who disagrees with them "regressive".

    Why do you think that is? Could it be because they have been called racists for the last few decades? Could it be because of guys like sharpton and Jackson using any excuse to rail against white people in this country? Its really just dishing out what the left has been doing for years. You guys only seem to have a problem when its turned back on you.

    You seem to have sympathy for Muslims, where there is none of other religions, mainly Christans. In my opinion its no accident that your media is exactly the same way.

    What are you basing this on exactly? The fact they are closer to your point of view? Most people would think a white man saying that white men are superior to Latinos is racist. Why its not when a Latino woman says it only makes sense to rationalizing racists. What makes Roberts so extreme when compared to the majority of Americans? We dont pick our supreme court based on the standards of Europe.

    What does that have to do with the US? What are you basing it on?

    Again, coming from a guy who's main line of debate is calling people "autistic".

  17. Yes, we can appeal to majority if we want. But as drone referenced, if it were white people forming a group called "The National Council of The People" and they were receiving millions of tax dollars to pay for housing and stuff for only white people it would quickly be considered a prejudiced hate group.

    The US MSM is the most powerful propaganda tool any state has ever had. I don't know what it takes to see the threat presented by the fourth estate, but for me Dronetek's assault on corporate media (even if it is only the left wing) is welcome.

    Dronetek isn't exactly a cookie-cut Republican stooge.

    Your first post in this thread was nowhere near being considered rational. Why couldn't you have started with a response like this^^^? Maybe you could have gotten your point across to Dronetek, or come to a better understanding of his position.
  18. #18 Sir Elliot, May 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2010

    I haven't even posted in the thread yet and people are already talking about me?

    I have achieved celebrity status.

    Also. I'm on a good amount of caffeine in the mornings, and marijuana most evenings and occasionally a puff or 2 throughout the day.

  19. Aaron gets it.

    Most my posts don't actually assert a point or perspective, but simply call into question the logic of other perspectives. Then, often in conjunction with that, I'll post some sort of satire perspective that takes logic errors to their extreme conclusions in order to further reveal the error. It's called "Reductio Ad Absurdum."

    When I'm actually laying out my own perspective I make it very clear, and those posts end up being rather long and detailed.

    Socrates and Diogenes are my favorite ancient philosophers. The best way to learn and understand the truth is to ask question, and learn and understand what ISN'T the truth.

    Even the ultimate skeptic, the ultimate relativist, is forced to admit-- if he wishes to go from Athens to Megara, he must take the road to Megara and not the road to Thebes. The road to Thebes leads to Thebes, not Megara.
  20. You are correct. Repeating something you've been told since Kindergarten without questioning it is far from logical.

    Just because you have been told something from Kindergarten does not make it true.

    You're no longer in kindergarten. Stop letting others do your thinking for you. Stop believing something to be true merely because the institutions of power assert it to be true and the majority of persons accept what they are told uncritically.

    I know questioning things you've been told from Kindergarten and things that are drilled into you by political correctness and pop culture is difficult. But it's worth it.

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