A Beginner's Guide to Coco

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by TheWatcher, May 1, 2012.

  1. #61 sarscarab, May 11, 2012
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
    @TheWatcher, understood. SCMC is an advanced grower with Coco that is for sure, but growing high grade cannabis takes time to learn how to do it. Everything I have ever done I have been successful at it by doing the research and taking small steps first. Then researching and following others advice. I have read up on most of every product that SCMC listed and all are good but beyond my skill and budget at this moment. My other soiless grow is sucking at the moment(slow and couple of males), lost 4 female clones during flowering due to a heater problem, so I really need this grow to pan out.

    I have searched and cannot find Formulex in the US, others may have and if so please post a link, however in the technoflora pack there is a product called Root 66, 2 types of Thrive(b1), and Sugar Daddy(a molasses derivative). That's what I have been using at 1/4 strength. I checked my pots this morning and all of them had roots coming out of the 4" seed cups so I transplanted them to 1 gallon pots and used the above formula on them. I also added 50 ml of Grow and Boost(Technoflora nutrients). Total for each plant was 10 oz of water and nutrient mix. Lights 2" away. We will see how it goes. I would like to give Fedex a quick kick to get my meters here, scheduled for next Tuesday. Now I needs to wait for at least 3 days and let them dry out a little bit.

    Thanks for advising.
     
  2. growing high grade cannabis in coco takes very little time to learn how to do it. what you dont know yet is your almost there, the first 21 days is the hardest part, once you develop a germination and baby plant system ur pretty much good to go, ya, u might kill a few along the way, but who hasnt? hell, i dropped a beautiful little seedling on the floor not more than a week ago :mad:.
     
  3. #63 TheWatcher, May 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2012
    Growing high grade weed is a simple matter of growing healthy plants, not over feeding them, flushing them, and harvesting them properly. No more.


    I ha
    Which is not only a waste of your life, but why I said what I said in the last post.

    Listen mate, cannabis is a beginner level plant. It's not difficult to germinate, grow, clone, train... the only difficulties arise when things are complicated. This next bit is a good example:



    This is why your plants look so hungry; If the names are anything to go by, neither of those is a base feed. One is a carb booster (or treacle/molasses as it's called in the store.. yes it's the same stuff and yes, unfortunately everyone who pays hydro prices for it are being ripped off) and the other is vitamin b, which is said to be a root stimulant. Neither give your plant the basic meal it needs, hence the yellowing and stunted growth.

    And this is what I'm talking about. I'm sorry if this comes across as a bit of a rant, but I'll keep repeating this for as long as it takes.... if these two products were not available to you, the beginner, and if that list of scmc's wasn't there, then all you'd have is a plant... in a pot..... and a bottle of plant food... and you know what fella? you'd have a fuckin healthy little shrub on your hands.

    The very best professional gardeners in the world -people growing hundreds of types of flowers and fruit and veg- couldn't possibly use such a complex array of snake oil products and hope to get anywhere in their occupation. It'd be literally impossible to keep any track of what they do. So instead they know and understand the basics, ie whether the plant likes acidic or lime soil, free draining or waterlogged, is a heavy or light feeder etc... these are the things they need to know.

    Because of the nature of what we're growing, and the value of the crop, we've become a target for people who know full well that half these people talking as experts, are anything but, and have no general knowledge of gardening whatsoever. Back when indoor growing first took off in the states the most basic of all general gardening principles were unknown to most growers. Only years later would gardeners from outside impart principles such as potting up etc, which made their job a whole lot easier and more successful.

    But some things remain.

    Now the nutrient companies are playing on our desire to achieve that holy grail. The biggest yield... the tastiest buds... the stinkiest flowers... so they're selling a thousand products and making a million bucks. Then you get the "experts" who'll pop up on various forums with some pseudo scientific bullshit -usually straight from the producer's blurb- telling you how each product works... casually disregarding the fact that it has not been scientifically proven whether hardly any of them work at all.

    And that's where we are now. Vitamins for this, boosters, acids... all bullshit products based on bits of info garnered by scientists studying many things other than cannabis, in an environment not at all related to the indoor grow room, yielding results which bear absolutely zero relation or relevance to the cannabis plant grow in compost or hydroponically. But who gives a shit, as long as it makes money.




    Like I say: Get a bottle of plant food. Feed it that alone. Watch your plant. Understand when it is hungry, and when it is overfed. That is your be all and end all when it comes to growing high grade weed. Believe me. Believe growers a lot older and a lot better than me.
     
  4. I have to agree with the watcher. One of my friends grows mega kick ass bud in potting mix with pumice and cheap plant food from our walmart equivalent. No monitering ph or anything like that

    I grew some dank shit a couple months ago, all the while overfeeding them and they came out great. My current grow i've added koolbloom both liquid and dry and now i'm having some problems..
     
  5. #65 sarscarab, May 11, 2012
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
    Kinda like the one guys signature, I'll just put on my plant fucking food hat, load my ass into a cannon and just shoot myself down to plant fucking food market. I still can't find the plant fucking formulex food anywhere locally or online in the states.

    So I spent 35 fucking dollars on a reputable companies pure horseshit. With that money I could have bought formulex if I could find the fucking shit. But it is not around here. So I can use the 35 bucks to buy some beer for now. The little bitches will grow eventually and I will be happy, maybe,maybe not, I hope.

    With the damned roots coming out of the bottom of the cups I transplanted them and pour the snake oil shit on them, so the little bitches will either make it or they won't. And if they don't then this is another lesson learned.
     

  6. i use epsom salt when i see a magnesium def. which is seldom, but works like magic. i also use humic/fulvic, and earth nectar/ambrosia. i wouldn't think of not using them "every" grow.....
     
  7. I saw formulex on amazon
     
  8. Will have to take a trip down to the store today and see if they carry Formulex. Looks like its pretty cheap. Would save some $$ over using the Cana for the full duration.
     
  9. Formulex is from the same company (Growth Technology) who produce the "Ionic" nutrient system. If they carry Ionic they may carry the Formulex, which is advertised as a well chelated, soft, low concentration, 1-part nutrient, designed for use with tap water on young plants.

    Formulex is in use for probably 2 or 3 weeks of the 12 to 16 weeks of life. A decent vegetative/bloom nutrient system would be very useful, and you might want to keep your eyes peeled for one of these while at the shop, especially if you are running filtered or soft water already. The assumption that this product will work exactly the same in every local, on different water sources, is misleading. Your water may contain the right amount of micro, it might not (too hard or soft), and the only way to know is to understand your water report. A grower using filtered water may want to choose a micro supplement, or a different product all together, to better enrich this soft nutrient in soft water.

    Very little information is available regarding the composition of this product, or what it contains that makes it superior to another product. With the cost of General Organics BioRoot being about $12 a quart (also a soft 1-parter designed for seedlings) I think that if you need something ASAP for your young plants and cannot find the Formulex that the BioRoot would be a good choice. Myself, and many local growers in my medical community, absolutely love this product in our organic gardens. You should be able to find BioRoot at most Hydroponic stores in the USA.

    A fair cost for the Formulex, in the states, should be between $10 and $15 for the 500ml bottle or $40 to $50 for the 5L jug. Good luck man. It'd be nice to see more people using this product and to compare the results from different localities utilizing different water sources with varying levels of hardness.
     
  10. I'll try to find the equivalent product for you over there in the US.

    Formulex is just a first feed. It's high in micros and is just a basic feed which I can give you a per mil guide on. It will easily get you through this stage, through veg, and into flower.
     
  11. Whoa! the labels on bioroot and formules look so fancy I had better set my kelp meal and ??? and run down to the hydro store for a more processed, chemically adulterated version of those products. I am glad I read formules MSDS so make sure not to spill any :

    SKIN CONTACT
    Remove contaminated clothing and wash skin with plenty of running water.

    LOL
     
  12. You'll find those warnings on virtually every single chemical nutrient... and some organic ones too.

    The real health precautions you should be taking are doing your best to make sure your spliff lights easily, stays lit when not being toked, and burns to a clean white ash. If it doesn't, and the joint goes out easily, burns unevenly, and when the ash first burns it is black or dark in the middle, then even if you used kelp, worm shit and fishmix to grow the bud, you're smoking a substance much more damaging to your lungs.

    The assumption that weed grown organically is automatically a better quality product regardless of how it's grown, is so far from the truth it's unreal.
     
  13. If you google "formulex in the US?" you'll see there were other people trying to get hold of it a while back. Apparently it's not available over there.

    If you can't find any baby/first feeds, just use your veg nutes at a low strength, but make sure it's that which makes up the whole EC of your feed. Any additives such as seaweed etc should be put in on top at the end.
     
  14. That's true. I don't think I made myself clear.

    Having a bottle of epsoms or cal mag product at hand is always good in the rare instance people see a legit mag deficiency (A massive number of alleged mag deficiencies are misdiagnosed)

    But issues arise when new growers who are not confident with feeding, replace base feeds with so many products that the main food makes up such a little portion of the feed. Or see paleness and misdiagnose some element def and instead of simply upping the feed, throw extra cal&mag it's way.

    Things like root stimulants and other beneficials are merely additions and it's important that beginners know this. Even though I use them myself as a fancy little touch, It's debatable how much if any difference things like fulvic etc will make.

    In other words, if you've got a good base food, you could leave out every fulvic/humic/kelp/vitamin/every other beneficial product and have a healthy grow. Whereas you could use every beneficial under the sun, but leaving out the base feed would give you problems.

    Make the base feed your priority is my point basically.
     
  15. I'm not sure whether it's superior to any similar products out there. I'm recommending it because I can give an exact guide based on the plants in the pictures. If there's a similar product then a guide for that should be easy too.

    Bioroot is not the same. It's not a base feed as such, more of a general tonic or addition. It's 1-1-1 composition makes it a very weak base feed and probably not that viable to use on it's own. A base veg feed such as canna would be a better bet.
     
  16. #76 SCMC, May 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2012
    I did manage to glean some info from a French site on Formulex.

    It is a 2.4-0.9-3.9 concentration and, contrary to the first site I read, it actually does contain a fair amount of micro. From Calcium to Zinc. Contrary to some advice in coco it contains a relatively great amount of Potassium in ratio to the other elements (and I feel it is safe to assume Potassium is the element in greatest abundance). H&G uses this basic ratio 5.4-3.4-9.4 in their A+B formula while Canna runs more of a 5-4-3 for vegetative growth, with a great deal of calcium. CNS 17 Grow for Coco/Soil also runs at a 3-1-2, with a greater amount of Calcium.

    If it is just a simple fertilizer, without too many bells and whistles as far as chelates or rooting hormones like Auxins, then it would be pretty easy to nearly mimic with a healthy measured EC with less ml/gallon from either Botanicare's Pure Blend Pro Grow or H&G Coco A+B. The PBP Grow is advertised at 3-1.5-4 and is a very close ratio with Formulex from a numbers standpoint. The H&G is about 120% the strength of the Formulex so much less would be required. The additional phosphorus in both systems might actually be beneficial during stages of rapid root development.

    I know that Pure Blend Pro is popular around the coco community and I imagine that this high potassium ratio early in growth helps balance the cations which are retained by the media to establish the high CEC of coco. Other products rely on an excess of Calcium to fill this cation bank early on and I know that many growers, including myself in the past, have struggled with these excessive calcium levels from the primary nutrient systems; especially later into flowering.

    I would like to try PBP in the future as I have had nothing but good luck using the Botanicare products like CNS17 Ripe or Hydroplex as a late stage PK kicks for a system that was lacking those elements in the base. H&G was a little shady in their advertising schemes in the beginning, and I am kind of a "buy local" person, so I haven't and won't use them but it might be an option for many people. I know that those who use H&G Coco A+B like it a lot. I prefer simpler one-part systems tbh.

    Does anyone have anything nice to say about Pure Blend Pro Grow and/or Bloom? It seems well suited to an organic mixture.
     
  17. #77 cheecha, May 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2012
    Hey SCMC, funny you brought up the PBPG, since just today I wished I had some..Just put some babies in dixie coco cups that were cloned in a bubbler and thought if I had some PBPG for the extra P it contains as opposed to my 3-1-2 CNS-17 grow..
    I did have some CNS-17 Hydro Grow(3-2-4) which is darn near close to the PBPG and formulex no?..
    Anyhoo, FWIW i also use PBPB and my coco ladies love it..I usually alternate CNS-17 and the PBP line from time to time..
    Cheers!..
     
  18. Ok good to know what a lab tested, scientific report by you, the watcher, on the differences and similarities between organic and chemically grown buds is. Weed is weed! hooray!
     
  19. #79 TheWatcher, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2012
    I think you mean the difference between well and poorly grown weed actually.
    And you don't need a lab to test it.

    Excess phosphorus and metallic elements in the final product is a bad thing whether they're derived from chemical or organic nutes.
     
  20. A couple of questions on plants and transplanting time.

    My plants are doing well and a nice green color, not dark green but at least no yellow. They sprouted on the Apr 27th in jiffy potting soil and I moved them to 1 gallon containers on May 10th. I have been feeding them with the Technoflora recipe at 1/4 strength and follow up on successive days with 2 waterings of ph'd water, plenty of run off. Always keeping the solution between 5.8 and 6.0. The plants are all at 5.5 inches tall and were topped at the 6th node. They were on 24 hour lighting with 4 foot 80 watt fluorescent tubes gow tubes( 1 red and 1 blue). I switched the lights to 18/6 a week ago. Yesterday I placed them in my vegging room with 360 watts of CFL in a 2'x4'x5' grow box. I have a good oscillating fan going to keep the temps down.

    The question: How long should I have them in the 1 gallon containers? I noticed this morning that 3 of the pots show tiny stubs of a root or two in the drain holes in the bottom. I plan on putting them in 3 gallon grow pots.

    I plan on doing a scrog when they reach the flowering stage, should I start some LST on them?

    When should I kick the strength of the TechnoFlora?

    Peace, love and herb :smoke:
     

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