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99.9% free market

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gooch_Goblin69, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. I see tons of people come on here and talk about how a totaly free market will fix everything. A completelty unregulated market relies on child labor (ie: America 1870's tons of child cole miners) and squezing the workers for everything you can(if you don;t do this job for a shitty wage, some other poor sap without a job will)

    What we need is limited government controls that enforce simple human rights: No child labor, minimum wage, and also we should have worker unions to give the workers leverage against the corporations, if not the corporations will enslave everyone. Thats all the regulation needed.
     
  2. Haha.

    Hardly a "99.9%" free market.

    And none of the the regulations you mentioned are needed.

    Especially minimum wage.

    You said it yourself, if someone won't work for a certain wage, then somebody else without a job will.

    If a company can't hire anyone to work for a certain wage, they'll increase the wage. If people will work for a wage offered, then that's their choice. Nobody is forcing them to take the job.

    Do some reading about Ben and Jerry's trying to hire a new CEO back in the 90's.
     
  3. It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. - Murray Rothbard
     

  4. Exactly. A free market is a great thing, but not unregulated. I believe things like health care, prisons, etc, should not fall under that. There are certain services, necessities of life, that nobody should ever make a profit from.

    The free market is a breeding ground for legal greed, for those who abuse it.
     
  5. So you support child labor then? You don;'t get it, people would be getting paid $.50 an hour because thats all that availible and they need it. Then all they can afford is to barely feed themselves and theres no way they could feed a family. Worker protections and worker unions are needed or the corporations will milk the workers for everything thev'e got. In the 1870's in Utah there were child miners who didn't see the sun for weeks sometimes, thats what a free market produces. I know you probably hate the government in any form but SOMETHING needs to protect children.

    I see that it makes it harder to start a bussiness with minimum wage but it's either that or we have corporations exploiting people. Don't think that people are going to look out for eachother because they don't, most are just selfish greedy pricks who will burn anyone to make a buck.
     

  6. Exactly, I believe Physically addictive substances should be regulated and kept sale of illegal because I cannot stand the thought of someone profitting off someone elses addiction. Thats fucking horrible.
     
  7. *sigh*

    No comment.

    Just going to repost what Kylesa posted.

    It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. - Murray Rothbard
     

  8. I had forgotten that whole aspect, and totally agree. It's just utterly sick. England, I heard, does regulate painkillers quite well. I know people who are victims of the pill companies... it's not easy dealing with hardcore painkiller and pill addicts. I do often stop and wonder how those people who profit sleep at night. Perhaps they're just as addicted as their victims...
     
  9. Exploitative monopolies cannot exist in a free market. They would never be able to force consumers or employees to support their unfair practices. It is only with the assistance of the state, through coercive subsidies or eminent domain (see: Union Pacific Rail), that these monstrosities can form.

    Do you know who supports minimum wage laws? The giant monopolies. WalMart lobbies every year for higher minimum wage laws to destroy the competition that can't afford them.

    You put way too little faith in the collective bargaining power of employees and consumers, especially in todays interconnected world. Instead you put all your faith in the concentrated power of bureaucrats and politicians... Now ask yourself, who is more likely to be corrupted? The consumer or the politician?
     
  10. I would rather see a kid eat then see him starving, even if that means he needs to work for three cents an hour when he is seven.

    I guess you all like to see kids starving and homeless?

    All child labor laws and minimum wage does is put people out of work. People who need money to live.
     
  11. What happens when there are only a handful of places in which to work and they all have shitty labor practices? It's not like with the consumer market in which one of the businesses has the competition incentive...

    I like the free market, too, and for that sake I hope you have an adequate answer for this.
     
  12. Regulating the market does not require statist violence.

    I highly suggest you guys read up on left-libertarian literature. There is indeed such a thing as free market anti-capitalism, and the free market doesn't necessarily entail a policy of all-profit all the time.

    Rad Geek People’s Daily 2009-06-12 – In a freed market, who will stop markets from running riot and doing crazy things? And who will stop the rich and powerful from running roughshod over everyone else?

    We are all market actors, and hold the power to combat injustices using social pressure. This is what Nock meant when he outlines the difference between governance and government. Governance is dynamic, polycentric, grass-roots, etc., it embodies everything that shaped the 60's counterculture and civil rights movement. Government, on the other hand, is just a rigid monopoly on the use of violence. Aren't we better than that?

    Also, let's not forget that the concept of a corporation is a legal fiction; it can't exist without the state protecting it, so there again goes any hope of using government against plutocracy.
     

  13. YEah because i want child labor laws i put all my trust in politicians and bureaucracys.

    Dude with theres never enough jobs in this country or any country. If people are starving on the street they'll work for any wage, even a nearly unlivable wage because theres nothing else for them, it's either 20 hours a day in a factory or they die on the street.

    "collective bargaining power of employee's"? A labor union?

    And besides American Consumers don't care what life is like for the workers. There worried about taking care of their families and saving money, so they buy cheap clothing, cheap food and don't think twice about it. Look at America now all these corporations that use third world child labor are the ones who are the richest, have stores in every semi-big town in the US and their CEO's are rich.

    And yes a monopoly can exist in a free market. What if I invented and developed some sort of revolutionary invention, patented it and didn't sell the plans to anyone, and then I invested my own money to mass producing, advertising and selling them, I've just monopolized this theoretical market. Yes thats unlikely but Bill Gates more or less had a monopoly for a while on the comupter market by doing just that.

    One thing i've learned, you can't put total faith in any economic or government or religious system because %10 of people are corrupt selfish bastards and don't care what happens to their fellow man and inveitably one of those people will get to a point of leverage within the system.
     
  14. This is thanks to intellectual property laws, which any free-marketeer worth their salt would be opposed to.
     
  15. Free marke anti-capitalism is a nearly impossible thing because humans are greedy. If they get some money and buy something they realy like with it they will want more money so they can buy more things to make them feel good, bassically they'll want more money, thus this leads to greed.

    An political/economic system can seem like the ideal one until you consider how easily corrupable humans are.
     


  16. So if i think up some huge idea and someone over hears me and beats me to producing them and essentially steals my idea and profits from it you support that. I believe people have a right to what they create.
     
  17. Could you accualy post some sort of couter arguement because your not adding tot eh conversation. You might aswell have just said" You dumb, and I'm right"
     
  18. Ideas are dynamic things that can't be nailed down. Putting a constraint on something like that sets a dangerous precedent that just ends up haltering progress.
     
  19. So you think it would be acceptable for some one to come up with an idea, then be looking for investors to help mass produce said idea, so the investors want to hear the idea first before they invest, they hear it and steal it they don't payt the guy anything and the greedy investors get rich. Is that morally acceptable?
     
  20. :facepalm:

    Yes we like to see kids starving while raping and murdering them with glenn beck.

    OR instead of forcing kids to work to eat, how about we pay there parents a living wage so they don't have to starve? And if the parents cant afford it, then the state can alleviate the situation.

    Whats the free market fix for that? Dead poor people?
     

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