95% Organic VS 100% Organic Grow

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by TheNaturalist, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. Hey Blades,
    Im on the 6th week of my first grow. I started with two Headband 707 clones and have ScrOGed them under a 400 watt cool tube (MH for veg, HPS for flower). For all the little details check out my journal:

    http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-g...07-headband-clones-400-watt-mh-hps-scrog.html

    Heres the thing, I am using organic soil (FFOF), organic nutes (BioBiz Grow + Bloom, Neptune's Harvest), organic black strap molasses, and Mykos beneficial bacteria but when it comes to the small things have slacked off a little. I used 2 drops per gallon of Super Thrive three times at the beginning of veg, and now that I ran into a mg deficiency I added a non organic Cal Mag solution to their water today.

    So what it comes down to is my grow is ALMOST completely organic, but not quite 100%...

    How will a 95% organic grow weigh up against a 100% organic grow? Some things I have been weighing out are the benefits of organic:
    • flavor
    • smell
    • responsible gardening


    VS the benefits of slacking just a little bit:
    • increased growth and vigor (ST)
    • Preventing deficiency (Cal Mag)
    • Saving money by not opting for the organic version of every small thing


    What the big question in my mind is, did using the non organic things affect the benefits of going mostly organic with my grow, and if so did the benefits outweigh the cost. Just something Iv been thinking about and wanted to get the opinions of my fellow blades!

    To sum it up, heres a shot of my canopy from today, to put it in perspective the screen is 2.5 by 2.5 feet:

    IMG_2733.jpg
     
  2. maybe not in terms of weight on a scale, but you can give your microbes a head start by cutting the neptune's harvest out unless you're adding a dash of it when you add ingredients and start a compost tea. The ingredients would be: veganic compost, fish hydrolysate, molasses. hydrolysates are often stabilized with phosphoric acid. if your biobizz also contain elements that will interfere with microbes you may want to cut it out too.
     
  3. #3 MGB, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
    The Naturalist:

    What makes you think you have a cal/mag problem? If you are referring to the lime green color I see in your picture I would say it is more a low CEC exchange soil problem. I am not bashing FFOF I use it myself. But I use it knowing it has poor quality worm castings. So I highly amend the FFOF. You are lucky if there is 5% EWC's in FFOF. You would be better off at around 20%-25% EWC's. This would give you a much better CEC exchange. I don't see where you have any compost/humus listed. You are only relying on the EWC's in the FFOF. I recommend you buy yourself some quality EWC's and you top dress with 2 inches. This may help your low CEC exchange.

    Last but not least there is no such thing as 95% organic. You are either organic or your not.

    Good luck and I hope this helps. Have a great day.

    MGB
     
  4. #4 WeeDroid, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2012
    95% organic is like saying you're a little bit pregnant. ;)

    Post coffee edit:

    I should have said that 5% inorganic is like saying you are a little bit pregnant. :p
     
  5. Hey guys thanks for the pointers on my grow, this is my first one so any advice is great! About the Neptune's Harvest, i dont know about the phosphoric acid but I do know that the staff over at Neptune's Harvest is really helpful and would probably send anyone a sample of their nutes if you call and ask a question about them. Thats how I got mine! I only got about 4 ounces so im using 1 ounce per gallon every 3rd time I fertilize to spread it out over my grow.

    Where can I get a small quantity of worm castings? I just have two plants going so I dont want to buy a huge bag but I know worm castings are great and I prolly should have had them in there from the start. I used to run a environmentally friendly lawn care business and we used worm castings as fertilizers.

    You cant see the cal mag problem from the top of the canopy at all, luckily it didnt get out of control. I went to Vegas over the weekend and couldnt see the plants for 3 full days (they were still asleep when I left friday morning and already asleep when I got back sunday night), then when I got a good look at them yesterday morning I noticed that about 5 of the big fan leafs just below the canopy had rusty looking spots appearing around the tips and edges. Checked some charts online and it matched up perfectly with Cal Mag deficiency. Heres a picture of one of the leafs I cut off:

    IMG_2738.jpg

    Anyways, I understand that if your not 100% organic then your not "organic" but Im not using organic soil and nutes for the word, im using them for the benefits of taste and smell in the final product. So do you guys think that using a non organic rooting stimulant on my clones and a non organic cal mag supplement to fix this deficiency is going to have a negative impact on the benefits of using organic soil and nutes?
     
  6. IDK, my main priority is getting finished buds into jars, not so much if I had to deviate a bit to get there.

    For *me*, even a 75% organic grow that makes it into jars beats a 100% organic failed grow.

    Ya can't smoke dogma.

    Wet
     
  7. Phosphoric acid. potassium hydroxide and potassium silicate (Pro-Tekt) are but a few inorganic products approved for use in organic food production.

    Phosphoric acid is used to stop hydrolized fish from fermenting, potassium hydroxide is used to manufacture kelp extracts and potassium silicate is a mineral we use to get silica to our plants.

    I've used all of the above so I fall into the 95%. The only thing I'm using currently is Pro-Tekt.......does that make me a 99%er?:)

    chunk
     
  8. It makes you a pragmatic grower and in touch with the realities of growing.

    Kudos!

    Wet
     
  9. I am sorry Hope I guess I owe you an apology. From what Chunk has said I am wrong. So you were right and I was wrong. Which I don't mind being wrong, but I do hate being confused. Phosphoric acid is clearly non-carbon based. How can respected agencies that consumers rely on blatantly/knowingly certify something that is not organic. I can understand OMRI their track record kinda sucks but NOP I can't understand.

    So how does a guy/gal really know if they are truly growing organic? I know, I know use meals/botanicals, but unless you see what the animals feed on, what the botanicals are grown with how do you really know? So is anyone really in-fact 100% organic? I am now more confused than ever. So do I just give up? Sorry for the rant.

    Have a good evening all.

    MGB
     
  10. MGB,

    LD can recite the precise phrasing of the rule, but I think limited amounts are permitted to effect processes related to organic agriculture. I think Microbeman has some test results on his website that details phosphoric acid's affect on soil fungi.

    chunk
     
  11. #11 poppybgood, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012

    Wee, I've come to realize in spite of what everyone says, your not OCD. You're CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, the way they should be.:p
    Just kiddin bro!!

    Edit. @MGB, I think it's mostly perception, i.e, what an individual or panel of individuals percieves as "organic" may not totally jive with another's view. I may not be organic to some because I can't afford yak shit from the himalayan foothills, or guano from an east facing cave in Borneo, but I use the "organic" materials I have available and I'm not on welfare. Oh yeah, and I used conventional alfalfa for my compost heap.
     
  12. Thanks Chunk. I appreciate the source of information.

    Hope,

    I edited my first post on this thread as to not contradict you. Once again sorry for talking out of my ass.

    have a good evening all.

    MGB
     
  13. #13 WeeDroid, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
    Well, yes and no. For many folks it's a practice in semantics.

    To me, organic growing came out of the realization that we are killing our soil by using petrochemical fertilizers. Organics and organic farming sought to address this by stating that organic was anything that didn't kill your soil microbial life and was healthy for plants to grow in, as well as healthy for humans to consume.

    At least that is what I believe in and I've yet to see a good counter argument to that.

    As far as OMRI goes, the only thing positive I can say about them, is that if a product for farming is not listed with them, it must be really awful.

    As far as USDA NOP organic certification goes, it's a bit of a joke imo. Money talks and corporations have a lot of money.

    Not to mention one can not in the states get cannabis an organic label/certification.

    For me it boils down to personal choice, rather than what certification is on a given thing. I have chemical sensitivities so I tend to be very picky with what I grow my herb with. However that doesn't mean one can't grow fantastic cannabis with a less than "fully organic" grow op.
     
  14. #14 hope2toke, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
    i am less concerned with exact percentage of how much of what is used is organic, than the question of to what extent are the farm practices supportive of organic processes - like chunk says. the reason i chipped in with my typical nasally dribble saying "that's not organic" is because the %95 number reminded me of the %5 allowance of inorganic materials with the federal cert. i disagree with the allowance because in no way are the %5 of inorganic materials evaluated as far as their effect on organic processes and could therefore alter the product to the point that it's very inorganic. i'd go on to argue that many growers around here, who are using %95 organic or half organic practices, are actually much, much closer to pure organics than many USDA organic certified products. and i'm sure the %5 inorganic allowance does not even include gmo's which are considered organic with the fed cert.
     
  15. About the Neptune's Harvest, i dont know about the phosphoric acid but I do know that the staff over at Neptune's Harvest is really helpful

    I like using fish hydrolysate a couple of times during a grow and dont have any issue at all with the phosphoric acid they put into it to stop it from basically rotting and stinking to high heaven. Little stuff like that doesnt bother me one bit, and I truly dont believe that it hurts my little world of soil life in the least.

    For me, the bottom line is not using chemical, salt based fertilizers. Like Poppy said, my #50 lb alfalfa sacks probably arent 100% organic either. Does that hurt me? I dont think so and if it does its gotta be pretty minimal.

    jerry.
     
  16. One more thing - I know for a fact that not everything that I use is organic, or at least "certified organic" by a real agency like Oregon Tilth. Take for example my #50 lb sack of fish meal - just like the alfalfa meal, I bet its not certified organic.

    Like OP said, theres a very fine line with some of the semantics and wording regarding organic gardening. I'm sure theres an even finer line regarding stuff like "Vegan" organic gardening. Who knows - who cares. If you're comfortable with this, and your microbes arent going to suffer, and hopefully even thrive, then what does it matter what a bag or box says.

    No bottled, chemical salt bases "nutrients" or anything like that in my growing medium anymore for me. Thats what makes me what I call anyways, an organic gardener. Folks that are using actual organic bottles, derived from (ahem - *lol*) natural, good wholesome products? sure, as far as I'm concerned thats organic gardening too.

    Typical rainy wet March weather here today. Its almost Spring!!!

    :hello:

    jerry.
     
  17. We're getting a shit ton of rain dumped on us this week, Thank gawd as it's been a very dry winter in Californication.
     
  18. Dry as hell here, too. Not even any real snow.

    I dont mind it, but my snowmobile sat looking all dejected and neglected all winter out on my lawn.

    Now theres not even our usual "Mud Season" cuz its been so darn dry.

    jerry.
     
  19. Hey everyone thanks for the input. I feel a little better about swaying from the rigid path now.
     
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