That is absolutely fantastic very helpful to see that info on paper(or screen lol) Although this will be a bloom light only having the blue spikes from 4000k definitely makes sense, I've read it helps keep the plants more compact. You say an arbitrary blend, have you played about with any different combos? In your opinion do you think the mix of 3000K/3500K/4000K you listed would be best? When you're talking about fr being offset by uv, does uva do the job? From what I've read the uvb diodes don't work but the uva ones do. I was looking at using uv by the end of the year, I want 4 solacure flower powers for the alleged boost in thc production. Taking that out of it I'm playing around with the idea of using uva diodes for a better spectrum(better plant health or whatever), if they help limit the stretch with fr then it's a no brainer. The screenshot below is what's available from kingbrite, seems to have a 1:1 ratio of uv/fr however I don't know the efficiency or draw of the different diodes so idk if the output is 1:1(not that I could figure it out anyway) they use epistar diodes for both fr and ir, not sure if there's enough info on there to figure out how many I'd need, I'll try find more about the diodes they use... In regards to 660nm supplementary lighting... I'm edging towards boards with just white diodes and keeping all supplementary boards seperate just to make it easier to control and to figure out what the plants like and what works for me. The second screenshot is the 660nm strips available from kingbrite, again I'm not sure if there's enough info on there to figure out how many I'd need(ignore the square up top I'm watching Netflix ) they also use epistar diodes. They stock strips with 660nm and 730nm but I'd like my fr and Dr on seperate controls I think as I don't want fr on as much as Dr I'm sure(do I need Dr for Emerson effect or just fr?) not sure if I should have uva/fr/dr on seperate boards, am I right in saying you can run 660nm and UVa all day? Fr you don't want on as much.. Correct me if I'm wrong... Or should I only run uv when far red is on to offset it? My head is scrambled from reading about lights for months, I feel like I'm going round in circles.. Ill try find what I can about the efficiency of the epistar diodes and post it up here. Thank you very much chief Ps. I haven't proof read so It might not make sense
TBH I didn't look much at the specs in the different scenarios. I'd let μmol/J and the action μmol/J guide my decisions for the most part. Supplementing green light instead of red light has shown to perform better per μmol. So I'd be looking at color %'s too. The people that say UVB diodes don't work, don't understand how they are supposed to work and are incorrect. UVB works very well and has been documented to show THC increase. The reason they say that they dont work is due to their measuring devices, chips used, and understanding of the intensity needed. The plant has evolved special molecules that specifically act upon UVB stimulation. Look into UVR8 and HY5 if you're interested. If the UV action and absorption curves are targeted it doesn't take much power at all to acquire the desired effect. Its a new area of discovery so not all the particulars are ironed out, but if you're curious I'd look into it. UVA has shown benefit in terpene production and may also help stimulate THC as well, albeit at a lower efficiency so more is needed, and even at relatively high intensities of UVA the effects have yet to be documented that show same or equal morphological characteristics as seen with UVB radiation. I think its beneficial to use both. The sun has both and plants love it. The suns UVB emission is very small by the time it reaches ground level on earth (compared to other WV's), so yes I think UVA is a large part of the offset. If I were using decent amounts of FR and UV, more than typically built, then I'd look to mimic a proportionality between the 2 based on what I observe from the sun. IR is interesting, and dont know much about it in terms of plant reactions. I've heard it can lead to stretching but plants deflect most NIR and IR I think, and the IR & NIR EM range is so broad that I'd imagine reasons for results would have to be explained more narrowly than "IR," ie a what WV IR? I think itd be beneficial to have all the seperate WV's on different channels. That's what I'm doing. Gives you more control and the ability to tease out certain theories better. The 3500K has a wider SPD than the 3000K, so the 3500K has more FR. You'll notice that the FR spike is most pronounced in the 3500K baseline sim compared to the other baseline sims. I think this should go into the decision process in determining your blend. I actually did just make up a random blend, but I think it might be something I'd use as it has the majority of baseline in a wider SPD but also decently red SPD (for bloom). Then a couple 4000K are added to help boost some green and blue (assuming, again, I haven't actually looked at the scenarios), and the final 3000K targets more of the red, so itd be using it almost like a spiky supplemental. I'd have to look at μmol/J, action μmol/J, PPFD, YPFD, and color % of each baseline and let guide me to my baseline blend, but I think blending some 4000K in with the more red CCTs is good. Maybe others can pipe up about their experiences. I use 2700K + 6500K + UVA/UVB (reptile bulbs), & 2700K + 3500K + 660nm + UVB/UVA (reptile bulbs for now). I just try to use what I have for now, but dont necessarily think my blends are "optimal," or the best. Fluoros work well for UV. They provide a wide spectrum which is hard for LED to mimic. I like LED because of efficiency, but fluoro has benefits too. Epistar are going to be less efficient, I'll try to see what I can come up with. IR (820nm, 940nm, ect) are really poor efficiency. Ill take a peek at the modules posted and see what I can determine. EDIT: You'll have to message them and ask them for the data sheets for the chips used in those modules. I looked and all I found was a crappy color coded chart that gave emission radiance in lumens. Who knows what power creates what lumen count. The 660nm epistars look around ~27% efficient but that's taking a lot of liberty to pick exact numbers from the vague ranges theyve provided. Request data sheets and it should illuminate the scenario better. The baba datashetss are also questionable but they will at least give us more precise figures to estimate needs from.
Hey I was a bit dubious about the reviews on uvb leds as one guy was measuring them with a par meter which seemed a bit dumb. Been looking a lot at uv, like you say Im attracted to led for efficiency but fluro will probs be what I go for. you say you use reptile bulbs, I've found a lot of info on them but very little on how many to use etc, any chance you can enlighten me? Been looking at the usual like agromax I couldnt find any info on the epistar leds but I found something better, strips using LG 395nm leds and Cree xpe2 leds for the 660nm and 730nm they also have 450-465nm strips. The data sheets have PPF on them which is what we need, right? I'm sure these chips are more efficient... They also have IR strips but I'm not sure if I want to mess with IR yet... They do 2 different sizes using the LG and xpe2, qb11 and the qb20... They run at different wattages and stuff so im going to put some screenshots up I've attached the LG innotek uv data sheet and the xpe2 data sheet(has all the different colours) I've taken screenshot of what I think is relevant info but idk If I want about 100-150umol of FR can you take any educated guesses as to how many umols of DR/blue/uv I'd need to supplement your random combo of boards(seems like a decent base). They also have what they call Emerson boards, they have a mix of 660/730nm, not sure if they're worth looking at? "I use 2700K + 6500K + UVA/UVB (reptile bulbs), & 2700K + 3500K + 660nm + UVB/UVA (reptile bulbs for now)" Is the latter a bloom light? Or both full spectrum? Apologies for all the questions I'm trying to sort a pc so I can play about with it myself and stop annoying you Cheers
No sweat man. I put together a few sims, but if you dim your baseline then you'll also have to dim your supplimentals or the proportionality will change. *In a 4' × 4' 1× 3000K 80CRI QB288 - 100W 2× 4000K 80CRI QB288 - 200W 3× 3500K 80CRI QB288 - 300W + 1× QB11 395nm - 50μmol/s - 26W 1× QB11 660nm - 70μmol/s - 26W 1× QB11 730nm - 80μmol/s - 25W 1× 3000K 80CRI QB288 - 100W 2× 4000K 80CRI QB288 - 200W 3× 3500K 80CRI QB288 - 300W + 2× QB11 395nm - 70μmol/s - 38W 2× QB11 660nm - 100μmol/s - 32W 2× QB11 730nm - 100μmol/s - 30W 1× 3000K 80CRI QB288 - 100W 2× 4000K 80CRI QB288 - 200W 3× 3500K 80CRI QB288 - 300W + 2× QB11 395nm - 70μmol/s - 38W 2× QB11 660nm - 100μmol/s - 32W 2× QB11 730nm - 155μmol/s - 49W If you look at the color %'s of the sun, it seems like the % of FR is about double the % of UV (within the range 250nm - 800nm)... I don't know the "Rank" of the LG chip used, so I assumed IP1, or a middle performing "Rank" as opposed to the best performing "Rank." I based the LG off of the 3535 chip (3.5mm × 3.5mm) rather than the 6060 chip (6.0mm × 6.0mm) of the datasheet posted. The marketing pics didn't look like they were 6060 chips, but if they are, then there will be some changes in performance. Also, I didn't know the "Group" number the XP-E2 chips were. Again, I assumed a middle performing "Group" number and NOT the highest performing "Group" number. If you get in touch with them, those would be good things to ask if you'd like to know more precisely what your average SPD will look like. Also, I assumed the driver effeciency of the supplimentals to be 90.5%. With only (1)× 22in strip per supplimental WV, it's going to be hard to achieve uniform distribution, so while the average SPD may look like the simulations, you'll have areas where the supplimental spikes will be greater than what you see in the sims, and you'll also have areas where the supplimental spikes are less than what you see in the sims. Even with (2)× 22in strips per supplimental, it's still going to be hard to achieve uniformity. Obviously the more you buy the better the distribution, but also the greater the cost. Regardless how many you decide to buy, and how you decide to space, if the "Rank" and/or "Group" number are correct, or the chip efficiencies which the sims are modeled after are correct, then all you have to do is split your desired wattage (which correlates to the total μmol/s) amongst the number of strips you decide to buy. For example, say you want more even distribution so you decide to buy (4)× of each supplimental WV. Lets say you're shooting for 100μmol/s of 660nm. We saw from the sim that 32W of 660nm XP-E2 was ~100μmol/s, so 32W ÷ 4 strips = 8W per strip. You still get the 32W, or the 100μmol/s, but you spread it out a bit better. I'd personally opt for the single WV per strip, because it gives you more control. The blended strips I saw were 730nm + 395nm, and 730nm + 660nm. It means that youd be getting more FR than anything else, or you're forced to increase FR if you want to increase any of the other WV's you're primarily trying to adjust. It'll take a bit of pondering to think about how and where you can place the strips in between the (6) QBs per 4×4. You can see there's lots of different little variables, if you do end up getting access to a computer that has Excel, msg me and I'll send you a version that has the chips that we're talking about already digitized and preloaded. It will take a min to get used to the simulator, and having all the chips already loaded will help it not be so daunting. *** All the wattages are based on at-board level or at-strip level wattages, the wattages listed aren't talking about from the wall, but wattage supplied by the driver. If you're using 480h's and your supplimental driver efficiencies are ~90%, then look at the sims and find the black row labeled "Power entering drivers." The RED metric with the black background will tell you how many wall watts are needed per channel, while the YELLOW number with the black background will tell you how many watts the driver is supplying to the supplimental. The difference between the YELLOW and RED power metrics equals the wattage being eaten by the driver. So if you're tuning your SPD using a $12 Wal-Mart "kill-a-watt" meter, then you're going to want to go off of the RED power metrics (look at sims) as opposed to the YELLOW power metrics listed previously above. EDIT: Both the light setups I posted were bloom setups that I use in different grow areas. Ill use more 6500K during veg. I use E27 supplimental bulbs along with QB's, so I just switch the E27 bulbs to the color I want for the stage I'm in. I'd look into the Arcadia D3 tubes over the Agromax's. The agro's will fry your plants quick, people only use them 3× a day for 15min per, otherwise they will fry your plants, and even then depending on your area and hang height it could be too much. I've heard many stories of timer malfunctions while using the Agromax's, it only takes a few extra hours and your plants are toast. Even a few extra minutes will show damaging effects. It's like trying to fill a glass of water with a fire hose, its hard to control. The arcadias can be left on the entire time. I use (4)× 26W UVB150 CFL's in a 4×4 until I'm finished with my light.
Apologies mate, been mad busy harvesting and stuff. I'll sit down tonight, reread and reply. Cheers Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Hey chief, really sorry about the delayed response, been mad busy getting back to work and harvesting.. please don't take it as a reflection of my gratitude, I'm very thankful for the help!! Kingbrite aren't replying for some reason, so I'm not totally sure what chips they're using so I'll stick with your calculations and use them as a relatively accurate guide in the meantime. Thanks for clearing up about the wall wattages I have a laptop now I'm just waiting on a cable coming so I can connect to a screen that's not smashed , I'll drop you a mail once I'm set up. Think I'm gonna go with the 1/2/3 ratio of K that you've ran the sims on, I'm most likely going to get the 288's and uv (maybe fr as well) this time and get the supplemental boards after the next run because I'd prefer to have 4+ boards of each colour, I'll find a way to cram them in... In regards to the uv fluros, if I was to use the arcadias, what size/wattage/uvb% should I go for? And if I'm using arcadias non stop during lights on, will that negate the need for the 395nm strips? I was looking around for other people's layouts with 6 boards @600W. Not much out there but I quite liked the layout of the one migro tested(I don't really watch his vids but he seems reliable enough?) it's been par mapped so I might go with that... Plotted a few layouts with all the strips, feel free to take a look if you can be bothered... I've only planned them using 4 of each supplemental colour per 4x4 but if its affordable when I come to buying then I might try fit more in.. the first few are with the boards equally spaced, then equally spaced without the 395(provided the fluro is enough), the second set of pics is the layout from the migro vid, the last one is the migro one but the middle boards are further apart...ive attached some relevant ish pictures. It's late here now and I just realised that I forgot to mark the cct on the 288s...thats tomorrows problem I am eternally grateful sir, your name will certainly be in the end credits GCTGO
Nice pics! There's a couple different variations in how you can do UV. Some people like to only use 1 timer for their entire setup (including UV) so they'd rather a UV intensity that can be run for 12hrs without burning the plants, while others like to put their UV on different timers and only run for a shorter amount of time but using a higher intensity bulb. Personally I like the 12hr duration for simplicity reasons. @Or_Gro uses (2)× 48in 6% Arcadia D3's per 4' × 4' with no adverse effects. I've heard the 12% Arcadia D3's can be run entire lights on as well with no adverse effects but I can't confirm that. Armed with that knowledge, and if it were me, I'd next try to determine if I wanted to deal with extra timers or not. If not, then I'd grab the 6% Arcadia D3's and not look back, otherwise I'd grab the 12% Arcadias and ramp up the duration I used (30min more each day) till I saw adverse effects (you'll notice, the leave edges will get kinda spiky and can burn) or till I reached 12hrs duration and could confirm that they could be on the same timer as your baseline blend. Arcadia also runs a 14% bulb, so if your prefer seperate timers then you could grab those as well. Folks typically use the 14% at ~6hrs a day (2× 48in in a 4'×4'). With 600W of QB in a 4'×4', I'd think youd find less damage from a 12% or 14% than most would see. Essentially if using a fixed wattage of UVB, the UVB % of the total spectrum emitted will drop if you run your baseline at high wattages. I think I read somewhere that the amount of white light effects how much UVB you can use, but I don't have a citation atm so don't take that to the bank just yet lol. Ill see if I can track down the literature. As far as your supps go, I like it when they are as close as possible to each other. If the WV's are staggered throughout the tent then some plants will get FR and some will get 660nm. If they're close in proximity to each other (side by side) then the R to FR ratio will maintain proportionality, though the intensity will vary from spot to spot in the tent. If using 4× QB11 of each supp WV, then you'll end up paying for more than you need. Its be better if you could somehow cut them up and spread out the emission that way as opposed to buying 4× of them to get the distribition. Ill see if I can't find smaller R/FR/UV modules. They'd be cheaper and allow you to create better distribution. There's nothing wrong with buying the QB11's but if you're using (4)× each supp per 4' × 4', then it'll get spendy and you'll have paid for lots of chips when only a few are needed to emit the power desired. I liked migros pattern as well as your last pattern. You've 1 pattern where your supp strips create 2 rows, where the supps are side by side but also staggered from the pair above or below it. I'd use that pattern for your QB11 supps, I'd create 2 rows of side by side strips, but then I'd choose something like your last pattern or migros for your QB pattern. This one I didn't see in your list and I thought would be pretty evenly distributed. If you used (16) QB288's to power 1200W, they'd only be running around 75W/ and I wouldn't think you'd need heatsinks which might offset the cost in buying (4) more. You'd be able to create even greater distribution, and could increase efficiency or increase μmol/J too. Supp placement could get tricky though at that point. I'd grab 6% Arcadias unless you're feeling adventurous, and I'd also use 1 of the (3) QB patterns previously touched on. Migros, your last 1 or the one I just posted. EDIT: I'm not sure exactly the wattage cuttoff for deciding on when to use heatsink or not. I try to keep my board temp under 115°F, but it's just an arbitrary number I came up with. By my personal methods, I'd power them to as many watts as they could take before hitting 115°F, then I'd throw a heatsink on. The lifetime and performance of the LED is directly correlated to operating temps, so the lower the temp the greater the lifetime and the longer the performance will be maintained. LEDs can actually operate at rather high temperatures (some can operate at 200°F+ if the body is ceramic and not pladtic ect), but I like to run them softer to try to keep them around for a few more years than you'd typically see with high temperatures.
Thanks! Id prefer to keep things simple, think I'll grab some of those arcadia... Don't want to risk frying my girls trying to learn how much n how often to use the lights. I want to use the meters recommended earlier in this thread so I know how much power I'm pulling, would that help in figuring out how much uv to supplement the baseline with? Most likely want to dim them to about 550 each(using 600w drivers) In regards to the supplementals- I had thought about keeping them together/equally mixed, 4 of each colour per 4x4 is still pretty crap coverage wise but if I go this route, I'll just have to deal with 1 strip of each colour per 2x2. I definitely want to hold off on the supplements for now, going to see if there's something that works out to giving better coverage, even if it costs a little more...**dumb random idea** mixed colour supplements strung like fairy lights would be great**... I never got round to mapping all the layouts I thought of, I like that last one in the picture, i might stick to straight rows for an easy build but the migro one is mapped which gives me a rough idea of what to expect.... Ill need to think about it... Originally I had planned to run boards with no heatsinks but read that I'd need a heatsink with anything over 60w and would therefore need 10 boards/4x4, would they be fine at 75W? I'll have a fan blowing on them and I want to mount the drivers outside the tent so they should run reasonably cool I think. It is slightly cheaper to get 4 extra boards and run them without heatsinks but if I need an extra 8 boards then its not too cost effective but the distribution would be nice. I'm going to order the 6% arcadias, I'm done reading bs reviews and opinions on how long to run them, I just want them to come on n go off with no extra thought... Lazy ikr It will be another week or so til I know my budget so I'm gonna think about things and decide what I want to do. Thanks a lot!
I love finding posts with chief in, I feel so much smarter pretending I can follow along lol.. i went with the qb288s also. Just had 10 delivered. Can’t believe how quick they came! I messaged kingbrite and Meiju the same question. Meiju replied with answers to my questions and kingbrite said “hello”. so I went with Meiju lol. I read the same that it’s 60w max without Heatsink but I trust chief over internet any day. what are you going to use for your frames?
Hey, it's quite hard to keep up but chiefs ridiculously helpful and I've learned so much from this thread alone! Just got a lead for my laptop so I'm gonna load up the spd sim n see if I can't learn some more. I've bought from kingbrite before and I've been happy with them but like you say the service/response from Meiju is better. Beginning to wonder if I should use Meiju... What's your first thoughts on their boards? **just pulled a 4x4 under 480w of kingbrite 288s, its looking like I've hit 1gpw for the first time, could definitely pull more with better training and more wattage/better coverage, my hps side of the tent didn't fill the 4x4 but doesn't look like it holds a candle to the LEDs so far** I'm probably just going to use angled aluminium, easy to plan, easy to drill and easy to build I think... What you building with the ten boards? And did you go for all white boards? Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
yeah he’s great! I just bought some cheap laptop from amazon and it just about has notepad lol. they look good. I was 50/50 because I wasn’t convinced that they would get the red right.. I did ask for all white but in the quote it had 660nm red and thats what I’ve got lol.. I’m still waiting for my Quantum sensor to arrive so Can’t say anything on performance yet. I didn’t really have a plan just quarantine innit lol. I have hlg an IS and As I started believing there all the same I’d thought I’d see for myself. A mate is gonna start a little 4x4 so he’s bought 4 of them of me already. Think I’ll build myself a little 3x3 tent light and see what happens. yeah I was thinking angle aluminium too from what I’ve picked up searching the web. But I am the anti handy man lol so what to make it simple as can be. Do you plan to cut the frames yourself or you know somewhere to buy pre cut?
I like seeing hlg customers using the Alib boards, gives me an idea if they actually are as good, seen people say they haven't noticed a difference I'll be cutting everything myself, got all sorts of tools available, think I'll use a grinder for the cuts. My mates an electrician so I'm going to get everything tested for safety n stuff once I've built it... Might even get one of those wee passed✔️ stickers If you don't have cutting tools I'd take it to a place that does(if you mark your cuts and drill holes I'm sure any metal shop would cut and drill for you) or get a hacksaw... Hacksaw would probably be a cleaner cut anyways
yeah I’m convinced they are all the same I just thought I’d see for myself. At at the third of the price.... I barley got a hammer lol. Gonna browse the tinternet see what I find. If not I think I know a place I can get something made. And yeah I got the sparky mate to come check it all for me too, even though it’s all pretty much plug and play. That’s what I love about these boards, even I can diy them (hopefully) lol .. All I need now really is the frame and driver. Hlg drivers from China are no cheaper and they add to postage so I thought I may as well get them locally.
I thought that about the drivers, once you include shipping and import its the same damage... The heatsinks from China definitely seem like the cheapest way to heatsink them, I was looking at alternatives locally and theres not much that's cheap if you want the same thing... You can get cheap alternatives tho Although they're easy to build I feel like I've had a physics lesson trying to figure them out goddamn μmol's n shit I was thinking about just sinking them on aluminium sheets/plates and running them at 75W as discussed earlier, works out cheaper and should work if chiefs recommending no heatsink at 75W 60-80 quid on ebay freep&p compared to 120 plus shipping and import from china The sheets are like 3mm thick and I'll have fans blasting them, seems like a winner Sent from my PCT-L29 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I thought I remebered the QB120 being able to handle 75W before needing a heatsink, and I thought the QB288 was about the same size surface area. That's where that figure came from. I edited the post, but I figured I'd better clarify that. I'd check board temps as I gradually raised wattage/board then Id make my determination of whether or not to use a heatsink by what temperature I was reading. Personally, I try to stay under 115°F, but that's just an arbitrary number I came up for myself. The LM301H datasheet lists a thermal operating range of 40C - 85C+ (104F - 185F+), so it's just a bit of personal preference on when you're going to decide to use a heatsink or not. In reality the chips are rated to operate at much higher temps than 115°F, and probably even more than the 185°F upper limit posted (engineers always add a safety cushion so often times what's listed as max is in reality closer to maybe 80% of the true max, it depends from field to field and device to device ect). My personal preference is around 115 F, and I happened to come to that figure after measuring the temp of my QB304's being powered to 145W while using 4× CPU fans and a heatsink to manage the thermal. They measured ~115F° which seemed to be reasonable given everything I knew about electronics, so I just went with it.
I'm running my current kingbrite 240w kits at about 60%, so about 60w each... it's been really hot outside and they are cold to the touch with a fan on in the room not even directly on them(drivers are warm but I'll be mounting drivers for the custom build outside) I think I'm going to go ahead and run them at 75W, I'll get aluminium plates for sinking them and save some coin whilst avoiding any possible problems from not sinking them...just trimmed my last crop, largest I've had pulling half a key, hope to improve that shitty gpw... Got 200g of bud from the hps and 80g of trim/shake. Got 307g bud from the led and about 210g shake....*give or take an oz I've smoked*.... I know if I had utilised lollipoping/defol the LEDs would have performed better and there would be less larf and I'd get that glorious 1-2gpw, even at that I'm impressed... So much larf should've been bud on the led but it'll just have to be shatter or hash now ... 480w defo ain't enough though and the coverage is dug meat...hope to get that away soon and get my lights built in the next fortnight, setting up a new 8x4 and leaving the current 8x4 for veg as it has a few leaks and was just cheap af, full new setup coming and moving hydro by christmas watch this space
Some great insight for the Chinese products and market here guys. The GPW ratios seem low though? I've got 270W LED in my 2x4. Minimum is 1.5 but got just over 1.7 last chop. Are these legit Samsung diodes? I do photos, use coco, environmental controller. Nothing special really. Just digging here as I'm just getting another setup and wanna save some money? Sent from my SM-G9650 using Tapatalk
My gpw has been pretty crap in the past, and has improved significantly with the LEDs... the cut I'm running is a lower yeild and I didn't train well this time so it could be a number of factors contributing to the less than 1 gpw(dare I say that I'm just bad at it) ... Can't say for sure that they're real but a few guys online have "proved" the connection between kingbrite and samsung....
Also most guys online count their “shake/trim” in with their harvest. 210g worth means your like me, and only what should be counted does! some mates sell theirs with bud in that I wouldn’t even smoke myself! My freezer is full lol that’s why I started making edibles.. @DrGreenberg i would like to see your 1.5 & 1.7 do you have it document / pics anywhere? The best I’ve done is still 1gpw and that’s with HLG & IS qb’s also yes I believe they are 100% real. I just got some boards from China and paid extra for the LM301H diodes. It even has Samsung LM301H written on the panel. I would assume Samsung would have a no problem with a lawsuit If a company as big as Meiju was doing this.