hello fellow GC'ers, After months of reading and drooling over everyone's efforts, I am ready to introduce myself. Let me begin by expressing my appreciation to the true craftsmen and women for perfecting their trade here in a public forum. I have drawn much knowledge from all of you and sincerely appreciate it. budslinger, rumpleforeskin, madmike, endive just to name a few I have learned from. OK, to business: experience: 6 cycles, aeroponics, 4 cycles soil nutes: foxfarm trio ( grow big, big bloom, tiger bloom )+ additives ( open sesme, chaching, ) lights: 2- 400 watt cool tubes enclosure: 4x4x7 sun hut system: 3 x 3 flood tray, 30 gallon res w/ plenty of bubbler activity, hydroton, smart pots, ebb and flow plants: 6- salmon creek, 2ft tall teens I will be starting my first ebb and flow flood tray journal and quite honestly I was inspired by budslinger or rumple ( thanks for that! )...their systems looked so hands off and low maintenance! This is important to me because I can't be around the ladies all the time, maybe as infrequent as every other day. I think I have the basics ready but I want to be sure by sending this out to see if I can get any more words of advice. So, I implore any of you to throw in your 2 cents and help me throughout my first ebb and flow flood tray.. cheers mat
honestly if you've harvested 6 times you have more grows under your belt than 90% of this forum how many times do you plan to flood during lights on? during veg and also flower? I'm doing my first ebb and flow also, I wound up going with 3 floods in 24 hours during veg....every 8 hours, 15min on. Hydroton is hard to over-water but I dunno how much water those smart pots hold. I'm just in reg plastic square pots. I'll be here to bounce ideas off if you want. fire away
thanks Q, Im planning on going 15 min, 3 x p/day at first thru veg and initial flower...then move it up to every 4 hrs..I want plant to get around 18" before I force the screen onto them...so, this initial ebb and flow crop will be by feel mostly...the smart pots?...hmmmm, now Im considering going with plastic...the reason I wanted to go with smart pots is cause nobody else seems to use them for ebb...my reasoning:1) they will not race towards plumbing and clog anything up 2) something will hold a residual moisture between floods 3) they are easy to work with and reuse what do you think/ ever tried the smart pot route for these reasons? I will be setting the grow up in the next 2-3 weeks, so pics to come.....also wanted to compile knowledge beforehand... thanks again...likewise, feel free to bounce ideas anytime cheers Mat
I'll snap a few pics of my roots in the tray (it's night cycle right now)...I don't think they're going to clog up my drain nozzles. My pots are huge for ebb and flow table, I have 10" pots. I used them in my last grow in soil and just re-using them. Usually people will have more pots but smaller. So maybe it's my huge pots containing all the root mass, not sure. I have no experience w/ smart pots at all...if you soak one of them in your sink, does it retain lots of water? or does it not absorb water very well? I dunno if they're more of a cloth material or plastic material....if you decide to go w/ the smart pots share your experience with them. When I flood every 8 hrs (3 times a day on 24/0 light) I could still see wet hydroton at the bottom of the pot when I lifted them. If I tilted them around in the air I could get a little water to drain out the bottom. Try doing that like 5min before your flood cycle is going to turn on...see how wet the hydroton is at the bottom (if you have plastic pots with the holes at the bottom, etc) I am also doing a scrog over my table but mine is about 12" or so above the pots...and I almost think that's too high. The reason is by the time my plants hit the screen they're so dang big and bushy...now that I've flipped to 12/12 they're just blowing up and I might run out of room to train the branches. So I dunno what'll happen...either taller branches/colas coming out of the screen or I prune the lesser branches...we'll see, I just flipped 3 days ago so by this Friday I'll have a better idea what to do (I hope)
Q, you make a good point with the moisture remaining in the tray right up until flooding...I think I've decided to go 3 smart pots and 3 net pots to see how each fair...I'll put the smart pots furthest away from the plumbing just in case... since I dont have any experience with scrog, I was hoping to stick with what Ive read, but I am only using 2- 400 watt hps cool tubes, so I think it might be best if I force that screen onto them asap....I get all my teens from other sources just cause I dont have space or time for them...my source can provide clones all the way up to teens...I then transplant and acclimate them to my room for about 10 days of veg...then I start them on nutes and bring the light down closer ( my lights run cool to the touch ) and go 12/12...that has been the case in all the other mediums I have experience with...this time will be treated no different...so, my screen will most likely go in right as they start to show good signs after 12/12... what do you know bout FF nutes in flood trays...any advantage to going another route this time?...should I worry about organic deposits left behind by FF nutes?...I should check out your latest grow to see how its done...where can I find it? Mat
Good idea to stick to your guns with the scrog. You know your strains better than I do. FF = Fox Farms? I have no experience with Fox Farms as I've only grown with Gen Hydro Flora series..and just the two part Micro/Bloom as per the Lucas Formula. From what I've read I don't think there is a need to have an "organic" line of nutrients to provide superior results. I would use nutes designed for hydroponics. If they are ok, then go for it and share your experience My current grow is in my sig but here's a link http://forum.grasscity.com/hydroponic-grow-journals/738897-sour-kush-lsd-600w-ebb-flow.html Here's some shots of the roots I was talking about earlier...they're not overwhelming like in a DWC bucket. They are brown and ugly...I got some Hygrozyme to hopefully help with that. Drain nozzles are free and clear (so far!)
Q, looks like your pots slowed the roots down enough before they threathened the plumbing...thats great...I've decided to expand my experiment by going 2 smart pots, 2 net pots and 2 regular 3 gall pots...this way I'll get the best idea of which is best for my setup.. yes FF is foxfarm and from what research Ive done, it is fairly weak compared to others, so lucas formula wont have to be stricly adhered to... I'm getting anxious to start my grow...the clock is ticking on the current soil grow and I cant wait to yank them and re start with the ebb system... your ladies are looking good! keep up the good work Mat
M soil grow is finishing up...I can't wait to get the ebb and flow setup...I am probably just under 3 weeks away from getting it started...I have been reading up on the advantages of starting from seed compared to starting from clone...will I see more production raising the plants from seeds or is there any difference...the reason i ask: I dont have a vegging chamber for cuttings and clones...I simply dont have the time and patience for this...which is why I purchase elsewhere...however, if the yields are better, I will conside changing my routine... thanks everyone BTW Q, I do believe high RH for my room is anything over 60%...which is why I am happy my room has stayed below 50%, even during the last rains
About seeds vs. clones Clones are great b/c someone else has already done the selective process of finding a keeper phenotype of that strain / genotype. When you germ a 10pack of regular beans you might end up 50/50 male:female. Of those 5 females maybe two grow way more vigorous than the other 3...and then 1 of those 2 has way danker smoke. So that's your keeper. Takes a lot of work to recognize and catalog all the differences from seed to harvest to make the comparisons between phenotypes. On the flip side, if the clones you get are weak genetics, prone to disease or whatever, then that's what you'll have too. So starting from beans you can be in control of a super healthy phenotype and clone mother plants or whatev's. About RH I'm coming to the conclusion between 40-60% is what you want. If running co2 you need higher RH than without. But there is a major factor RH has on your plant's ability to transpire and transport nutrients from the roots to the top of the plant...The less transpiration the less metabolism. It's a balance of the pressure created by the gases in the air known as Vapor Pressure Deficit. I've read some good articles in online gardening magazines regarding VPD Maximum Yield, Jan 2011 Urban Garden Magazine, July 2010 You have pics of your soil grow? Show em off!
your right Q, Ive been holding out on some pics. I jut wanted to give you an idea of what Im working with as far as setup...these are older pics of a larger grow, however, I am now compliant with my 6. As you can see I will be needing to beef up the homemade table, put a slight angle for drain, but other than that, I have a pretty good setup to get a decent ebb/flood going what do you think? the complex intracacies of the hobby have be daunted at times and I try to keep my system low maintenance and simple. bummer, the pics I have exceed the GC limit I guess I can send it via email but how do I remedy this?
I use photobucket to upload my pics. I started using the GC upload, but it stopped working for me. I hope you can upload some pics soon! peace
GC limits the size and resolution of images..for simple jpg it's 5MB 2560x1600 I upload my pics to imageshack.us so I can link pics to multiple forums. I also choose the option for resize 800x600 so the pics dont blow up the thread. Make sure if you're using a smartphone to disable the GPS function or else your pics will have metadata of your GPS location...ie your grow room. BTW you see the pics of my roots now? not so ugly anymore! that hygrozyme worked I guess
ok guys, I ended up using photo bucket...these are old pics but I have the room setup very similar right now... http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/mateoliveras/soil1.jpg http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/mateoliveras/soil4.jpg http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/mateoliveras/soil3.jpg http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/mateoliveras/soil2.jpg http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/mateoliveras/soil5.jpg
yo! we're separated twins! are those black tubs the mason mixing tubs from home depot? I used the exact same thing my last grow! I made it as a drain catch cuz I did a scrog with soil so I thought it'd be easier during the flush to have the pots in the tub like you have and I put on a ball valve that drained into a bowl... I also had the same idea to split my exhaust duct but I didn't like the split coming off the side and wanted a Y-shape instead...but I can't find one at home depot, only online at hydro outlets and they charge almost 20$ +shipping here's what I wanna do until I get co2 EDIT: you can embed your pics by pressing that yellowish icon with the mountain range lookin icon next to the earth icon with the chain link
you know it Q!...those mason tubs make good kitty litter trays too!... MAN I am really starting to second guess this ebb and flood idea...as it is right now, I spend very minimal amounts of time in the growroom...whenever I visit my soil grow I just water with ph'd tap water, I add foxfarm lineup as directed in recipes every other water and it is VERY EASY, low maintenance If I cant make it to the room at least every other day for the ebb cycle I'll be screwed...thats too much time in between checks for a good crop...then again, if it gets dialed, 2-3 times per week would be ample visits then theres the issue of nutes...I have all foxfarm nutes, they have provided well for me and I love the flavors it produces...however, I will be going thru a lot more nutes using a 30 gall res changing every other week,,,if I can just get my soil production higher, I may never want to change over to hydro again...afterall, I have never tried topping or scrog with soil...maybe i should try this before jumping into soil?...I can obviously be easily persuaded!...I am being fickle!
Without changing much about your method one thing that I know will increase your plant's vigor and yield is beneficial microbes. Get mycorrizhal fungi and Bacillus and Trichoderma microbes. Many companies make beneficial bacteria. General Hydroponics has Subculture-M and Subculture-B ....Advanced Nutrients has Piranha, Tarantula and Voodoo Juice... there are many more. You could also "brew" your own....they call them "compost teas" I'm sure you've heard of it. You basically want Mycorrizhal fungi....and also bacteria called Bacillus and Trichoderma. You introduce these to the root zone during transplant, you can mix into the soil or make a drench and top feed it. These microbes form a symbiotic relationship with the roots and extend their surface area for water absorption, help prevent root rot and other diseases, and break down nutrients into plant available form (among many other things) Lots of good reading at this online magazine. I'm no expert! Urban Garden Magazine | In Deep: Expert Q&A on Microbes, Compost and Organic Nutrients Urban Garden Magazine | mycorrhizae
I AGREE I USE GREAT WHITE . I HAVE NOTICED A HUGE DIFFERENCE. I ALSO ADD TEAS ONCE A WEEK AT THE END OF MY WEEK FOR TOP OFFS. GOOD LUCK MAN. LOOKS GOOD SO FAR. MACK^9
KEEP GOING MAN DONT SECOND GUESS YOUR SELF IT LOOKS GOOD AND IT WILL TURN OUT MORE MEDICAL THE WAY YOU ARE DOING IT THEN FOXFARM SOIL. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FEEL FREE TO SHOOT ME A PM. I HAVE BEEN USING A REZ FOR A WHILE, AND I FEEL IT IS THE CARE OF THE REZ THAT WILL MAKE THE ROOM. MAYBE A LIL MORE WORK BUT IT WILL PAY IN 1O FOLD WHEN YOU PRIDE IN YOUR PRODUCT. I LOVE SOIL BUT I HAVE LEARNED SOME NEW THINGS ABOUT SOIL FROM RUNNING AN EBB AND FLOOD SET UP I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN. THE CITY IS BIG AND SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WATCHIN TO HELP MOTIVATE, OR PUSH YOU. WISH YOU SUCCESS. MACKdelta9
I agree with Mack even though I said to stick to what you're experienced with, soil. In my opinion hydro isn't a lot more work vs. soil. Using quality water and nutrients your pH will be stable and it'll become easy as you notice a pattern of ppms and pH. After that just focus on your environment. It's simple: Start with a new res, top off daily with water and at the end of the week or 10 days, dump and start fresh. There are add back methods but you'll figure those out along the way b/c it'll be so much easier to understand once you get started. I will probably continue with hydro...they just grow so fast! and a note about the quality of buds...soil vs. hydro....in my head...I think the extra flavors and "quality" come from all the bio-activity going on in the rhizosphere of organic soils. I suspect using bennies in hydro can produce those similar qualities of taste and smell etc. but I'm just making up that last part...the rest was true