I just wanted to create a thread to show the respect I have for the group of people who constantly visit and post here. Although many of us dont see eye to eye, I respect everyones right to believe what they want....even though it doesnt always come across that way. A lot of us here are very passionate about our beliefs, and rightfully so. However, it seems that the passion often turns into harsh criticisms and ridicule of opposing viewpoints...we are all guilty of this at times. I'm realizing that its not all that important whether you're right or you're wrong, I think the most important thing is that you take the time to think about it. As I grow older, im finding that I have a lot of respect for the individuals who often take the time to question their own existence in one form or another. I think about how many people come and go though life without ever taking the time to stop and think in depth about humanity, god, the Universe, and so on....it seems sad. The questions we ask and the things we discuss here, in my opinion, are the most important things for humans to think about, to question, and to discuss. So again, I really do respect all of you who frequent this area of the forums to share your thoughts and ideas.
the S&P forum is where all of the heavy issues are discussed. that deserves respect alone. and great post JesusC, i agree. you guys will always have my respect as well.
This is how things are around here bro, and unless you've found a beautiful utopian site this is how things will always be. Some people are passionate about what they believe to the exclusion of all else, that has nothing to do with atheism or theism, it's just human nature. I can envision no scenario where people could come together as human beings and break bread in peace. Sometimes our daily lives prevent us from understanding our shared human experience, and the more I read through this section the more I come to understand that the issues we discuss are so powerful that there is no forum, threat from the moderators, or any other circumstance that can be created that would allow people to discuss these issues "reasonably." NONE PERIOD! That's just the way it is, and any other thought to the contrary is a big fucking waste of time. People don't necessarily start out with the idea of disrespecting each other, but it takes no time at all to degrade to something else, no matter how "well meaning" we all may be. This seeming stalemate between banning and misundestanding leads me to believe that the important point is the fact that we have ideas, and not who's idea prevail. If anyone thinks I'm wrong, go through the "God" threads and see how much resolution is to be found. Personally, I think it's a section where people assume all the "heavy issues" are being discussed but what's happening is a human communication log jam. At this point in my GC membership I don't give a flying fuck, but I can understand how some are affected enough to either change their "belief systems," get banned, or just leave. Humans don't always agree on shit, and that's that. Stay green.
Definitely I don't post here too much, but with out a doubt I spend more time reading threads in S&P compared to any other section.
I see no heavy issues here, it's that people discussing them are carrying heavy loads. That is within their head. But I do like seeing people's thoughts on some things, although at times it can become pretty redundant. Either way, interesting thoughts do spur up from time to time, can't pass that by.
i guess i should have used the word "deep" instead of heavy. the things we talk about are meaningful and powerful. i think you have to be somewhat brave to venture into some of these philosophies. it was just a compliment.
Great thread JesusC! I mirror your sentiments. @AK - I wish you would spend more time in the S&P forum, though I do understand why you do not. I miss your insight and your wisdom, even if we do not always agree. On to the post! I can, I can see that day when that happens. It will be the day when humanity decides that logic and reason are the standard by which things should be judged. This will not get rid of dreamers, artists, or believers, it will simply allow us to agree on many issues that currently we are unable to. You see, people are not different, we all want the same things, what gets in the way is not having a standard to live by, a standard by which to judge the world we live in. I see a day when people are at peace, when no wars are fought, when no battles, except for those of the mind, need be won. Some of course may not agree with me, but I feel we must reach this point, because if we do not, I do not believe we will survive for much longer. I would say we do discuss these things reasonably, I can show you forums without the guidelines of Grasscity and you will see what most discussion degenerate into, which is silly-arrogant jokes and name calling. I do not think we do that in this forum, I think we handle ourselves quite well. We do not have to agree with each other to be civil, we do not have to believe what another believes to be kind. We are all adults here, we can accept criticism, we can understand disagreements. I agree with you, to an extent. I have seen little disrespect on this sub-forum, though I see many people take offense and believe they have been disrespected. Just because someone feels they have been disrespected, does not mean that is actually the case. Quite a bit actually. As is evidenced by my change of heart, and others, including IGotTheCottons! People do learn from these threads, seeds are planted, for one side or the other. The change may not be immediate, but then, nothing hard normally is. There are some "heavy issues" discussed here, but not many. I would agree with that. Yes, people do tend to repeat themselves, though that is normally what happens when people repeat themselves. But we could. None? Not a single issue? Okay then... Isn't everything? There are always interesting thoughts, intermingled with the same old arguments. There is truth in everything, and because of that, everything should be acknowledge and pondered.
I don't know. Respect can have different meanings to different ppl. I don't think I owe respect to anyone, exactly... I mean I try to use tact, but If I say something you disagree with...to some ppl that is disrespect. Disrespecting their beliefs, their religion, their culture, or whatever... And, well, in the internet culture...it's impossible to respect everyone the way they might wish to be respected. Just my two cents, although I agree respect is important...it can also be a reason for ppl to not speak their mind because the majority of ppl would be "offended" by their beliefs. I'm less worried about respect, than truth, love, and peace. But then I guess...I'm now I'm just defining my definition of respect, haha. What do you all think respect means?...
Bro, I could go into my reasoning in depth, but to cut out what will surely be a rather long winded response from me I simply say, I completely disagree with you. The S&P forum has built into its very essence the seeds for disagreements and it should be that way because the human condition is that way. "Logic" and "reason" can no more guide us perfectly through life than religion can, because at the heart of either is man, and wherever man goes so goes chaos. IMHO the earth is out of balance, mankind thinks it's the preeminent life form and not a part of the greater whole. We arrogantly think at times that holding "opposing" viewpoints means something. We're born, we live, and eventually we die but everything that happens in-between--the "life" part-- is what it is. If human history has shown us anything it's that no system of ideas be they simple "facts" or fanciful religions can supersede plain old human nature. I can trust that man will do one thing perfectly, and that's fuck things up. If mankind is by chance and no entity responsible for us being here then it behooves us all to be about the buisness of living. The differences that each of us sees in the world is all part of the beauty and amazing diversity of life. If we all agreed on these issues life would be as bland as a bowl of steaming broth--thankfully we don't. [LIFE] is all of us living, breathing, dying, and disagreeing with each other, that's what adds meaning, ya dig? Life is a collision of concepts, sometimes those concepts agree with each other, while other times they don't, it's just that simple and life stills goes on. As to people being persuaded by these discussions I don't know what to say about that except, get a life. That isn't to say that there aren't intelligent and enlightened members here just that our lives and personal truths are a bit bigger than anonymous screen names on a marijuana site. Just a thought...
I do not agree with that. Logic and reason can lead us much better than religion can. Groups of people, who are logical, can gather together and agree upon major issues, simply by making use of logic. It is the hallmark we have to go by, it is the yard stick to measure our thoughts by. Man is the way man is because of education and environment. We are taught that all of our beliefs are valid, even if they are irrational and without merit. This is dangerous, because quite frankly, the only way we can understand our universe is to make use of logic and reason. It is the only thing we have that can be considered reliable, even if it is not 100% perfect. Of course, we can arrive at some pretty stupid choices using logic and reason, but that, I contend, is only the case when not all the facts are known. When we are ignorant on something, but try our best to come to a conclusion anyway. Man is a logical beast, society rips that away from us by feeding us superstitious nonsense. Do you think a caveman would have discovered fire, if his holy man said it was evil and of the gods and man should not touch it? Superstition gets us nowhere, leads us only to a stand still. And I blame religion for this, and the arrogant idea that we are Gods most important creation. Yes, but I contend that is a matter of education and allowing the unreasonable into positions of power. I do not believe that at all. Because, even if we could agree upon certain standards that would in no way make us mindless robots that agree with everything everyone says. We would still be individuals, but we would agree upon certain ways society should be run. We can all agree that murder is wrong, we can agree that stealing is bad. Certain things are logical and make sense, other things are not. If everyone thought logically, then it would be quite easy to arrivie at conclusions that everyone can support. Just because we have yet to reach such a point does not mean it is impossible to do so. We are children, some of us anyway, and many of us still cling to this childhood, scared to venture into adulthood. No, I do not believe that adds meaning at all. I believe it is a childhood we really need to grow out of. It is not something to be celebrated or admired. I believe we think it to be so because it is easier to do that then to understand our failings and address them. LMFAO. Get a life? For letting someone else's wisdom speak to you? Wow... Why do you come to a message board then, if nothing anyone says can ever have an effect on you, because if it did, it would mean you "have no life"... Like seriously. We are people, what the hell does it matter if you get some truth or wisdom off of a message board, or in a coffee shop with some friends? It really doesn't... Yes, life is bigger than a message board. But that really has nothing to do with anything. A bad one at that, in my ever so humble opinion of course. I am quite offended, though that should not bother anyone, I am after all, simply a screen name.
Get a life? Obviously you post here, and obviously you share your thoughts and ideas. Why do you share those thoughts and ideas, if not to persuade? Why does sharing your thoughts and ideas via the internet make them any less valid than sharing those same thoughts and ideas in person? I cant say ive been persuaded in any direction by anyone here, but ive certainly been opened up to some new ideas and concepts that I had never thought of before. I value things like that. Not only do I value those things, but I have a certain kind of respect for the individuals who expose me to those new ideas and concepts... ...hence this thread.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth I do not agree with that. Logic and reason can lead us much better than religion can. Groups of people, who are logical, can gather together and agree upon major issues, simply by making use of logic. It is the hallmark we have to go by, it is the yard stick to measure our thoughts by. Man is the way man is because of education and environment. We are taught that all of our beliefs are valid, even if they are irrational and without merit. This is dangerous, because quite frankly, the only way we can understand our universe is to make use of logic and reason. It is the only thing we have that can be considered reliable, even if it is not 100% perfect. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> I guess what I'm trying to say is that people should be able to choose which one they want and should live by. Logic, reason, and religion all come from one source bro, mankind. What's dangerous is human beings limiting themselves all for the sake of some illusory forward momentum. Religion isn't going to go away and neither is logic, I propose both being accepted. Any takers? Also, the only way to understand the universe is if we use all our senses and intuition, yes logic plays a pivotal role but so does religion. Science can gives the how's but not the whys. "irrational?" "Without merit?" Yeah sure, who gets to decide that one huh? Meaning isn't an exact science and the quest for such has a broader context than the cold hard facts. Ya know? <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth Of course, we can arrive at some pretty stupid choices using logic and reason, but that, I contend, is only the case when not all the facts are known. When we are ignorant on something, but try our best to come to a conclusion anyway. Man is a logical beast, society rips that away from us by feeding us superstitious nonsense. Do you think a caveman would have discovered fire, if his holy man said it was evil and of the gods and man should not touch it? Superstition gets us nowhere, leads us only to a stand still. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Yeah, some "pretty stupid choices" alright. Ever take a look at the results of the industrial age or the "modern" world? Your contention is lacking because it doesn't take into account human nature, which by the way, doesn't behave logically all the time. I contend that man is an animal, a clever animal to be certain, but an animal all the same and the word logic doesn't necessarily always apply. You speak as if society were some far off country that needed to be feared. "society" is us bro, all of us and that includes you. I can't speculate on what a caveman would do in another era under vastly different conditions. "Superstition" as you put it deserves to be looked at a bit more seriously than through our limited collective lens. Granted, religion may be something you have personally outgrown in your life experience but as a phenomena it deserves to be studied and better understood. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth And I blame religion for this, and the arrogant idea that we are Gods most important creation. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> That's real funny because I blame people for their actions not their gods. You can't cherry pick human nature or isolate religion like its some strange anomaly, call it what it is, a part of mankind, a little sliver of all of us--just like science, and war, and blood, and death. [Ugh... Sorry about that grouping but I'm high as fuck and I'm trying to beat GOW 2 in Titan mode. ] <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth Yes, but I contend that is a matter of education and allowing the unreasonable into positions of power. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> That's really comical in a tragic way. There were some very educated people that decided to gas the Jews, very logical and efficient people that designed and built all the gas chambers, and some very scholarly types that stood by and watched it happen. Education doesn't trump our animalistic nature bro. Maybe by the time we get to the end of "evolution" it put us right back at the beginning. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth I do not believe that at all. Because, even if we could agree upon certain standards that would in no way make us mindless robots that agree with everything everyone says. We would still be individuals, but we would agree upon certain ways society should be run. We can all agree that murder is wrong, we can agree that stealing is bad. Certain things are logical and make sense, other things are not. If everyone thought logically, then it would be quite easy to arrivie at conclusions that everyone can support. Just because we have yet to reach such a point does not mean it is impossible to do so. We are children, some of us anyway, and many of us still cling to this childhood, scared to venture into adulthood. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> "IF," is a mighty big there bro, in fact it's bigger than you and me combined. If everyone thought logically? The fact is we all don't and never will, but who knows maybe something to the contrary might happen in the distant future, but given the current trends I just can't see that right now. We're "children?" According to what scale and by who's standards? <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth No, I do not believe that adds meaning at all. I believe it is a childhood we really need to grow out of. It is not something to be celebrated or admired. I believe we think it to be so because it is easier to do that then to understand our failings and address them. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Uh speak for yourself. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth LMFAO. Get a life? For letting someone else's wisdom speak to you? Wow... Why do you come to a message board then, if nothing anyone says can ever have an effect on you, because if it did, it would mean you "have no life"... Like seriously. We are people, what the hell does it matter if you get some truth or wisdom off of a message board, or in a coffee shop with some friends? It really doesn't... Yes, life is bigger than a message board. But that really has nothing to do with anything. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> C'mon do you honestly think that's what I was saying? Please, give me a little bit of credit eh? <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Liquidtruth A bad one at that, in my ever so humble opinion of course. I am quite offended, though that should not bother anyone, I am after all, simply a screen name. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Stay green.