What's up. How is everyone doing today? I have been starting some bags seeds recently, just to get in a little bit of practice before trying to pop all the seeds I just got from Attitude, but it seems that I am encountering damping off. I have looked into damping off a bit and am a little unsure of whether it is caused by a bacterial infection or over watering. I am starting the seeds in jiffy pots filled with coco coir. While the seeds are popping, on about the fifth day they are bending over right in the middle of the stem, as if they were pinched in half, and then from there they die. I am wondering if this is just a result of over watering the coco or if I am actually encountering a bacterial infection? I am going to try to start a few more bag seeds and water the coco a little bit less to see if that solves any of my problems, but besides that I wonder if anyone has a solution to this damping off? I have read online that an inoculation of chamomile tea can help prevent this from happening and had seen EWC mentioned somewhere as a preventative also. I was thinking of mixing a little EWC, Azamite, and dolomite lime into the seedling's coco mix just to give them a little help starting off. Is the chamomile tea just an FPE? Any help with this issue is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advanced?
50% Sphagnum Peat Moss 25% Pumice or Perlite or Rice Hulls 25% Worm Castings Both the Sphagnum and worm castings provide for disease suppression. Water with the recommend amount of liquid silica and you won't have any problem getting seeds of any kind to germinate. HTH LD
Thank you very much LD. I wasn't to sure if I should use the EWC, but then realized I would really just be inoculating my mix with beneficial bacteria and microbes, rather than trying to give the seeds a food source. And I will definitely pick up a bag of Sphagnum as soon as I can. I know we have somewhat talked about this before, but should I be transferring over from coco to Sphagnum? They seem so similar to me and I have had good results with coco, but was unsure of the advantages of Sphagnum, but was sure there are some. And I hadn't particularly planned on using silica, but now that I am encountering this problem, it seems that it might be practical to pick up a bottle. I know that it just promotes strong healthy plants (and by strong, I have heard it makes them really strong), but hadn't looked at it as a necessity. Do you have any recommendations on a good brand to try to find? I am going to do a bit more research on silica now, but am wondering if you use it purely for plant strength?
i find the best way to prevent dampening off is to provide a heat source. get a seed warmer mat. heating pads for your back work well on a low setting, but the timer for the thing can be annoying. seedling mats are usually bigger, also.
Chief Tokem I won't comment on the Coir vs. Sphagnum because the discussion can be had on several levels, environmental, political, etc. I can make both sides of the argument meaning that I don't really have an opinion. You do have to take into consideration the basic differences between Coir and Sphagnum which are huge. Other than the color of the materials, they have no similarities on any level. Certainly in the area of CeC which isn't daunting in and of itself, it is something to consider and adjust your mix accordingly. I'll dig up a couple of links from Florida State University and Cornel University on how Silica works to prevent molds and such. The main reason to use LIQUID versions of Silica is that this a very mobile element in a plant's system. When hit with an insect or pathogen, the plant moves this element to the site to surround the problem thereby limiting the damage. Worm castings also have high levels of disease suppression compounds, enzymes, etc. assuming that you're working with high-quality castings. Sphagnum peat moss also has agents that give you this natural defense. And yes, Silica will give plants tinsel strength in the stalks and branches. Leaves will take on a 'harder shell' which isn't a scientific notation but my own anecdotal observation, i.e. worthless. HTH LD
Whatever you are going to put your babies in, NUKE IT FIRST! Put your damp soil in the microwave and nuke it until it is steaming hot. This will kill the damping off spores and give your babies a chance to grow! A small fan also helps by keeping the air moving so it doesn't have the humidity that spores like! Hope that helps! Granny
Chief Tokem Here's 'real science' about using vermicompost for seed germination - not urban legends. Cornel University's Horticulture Department produced this video. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGQR5ERaPQ]Vermicompost a Living Soil Amendment - YouTube[/ame]
Thanks Buckeyes. I actually have been using a seedling mat, so I was a little bit daunted by my failure. But I will definitely continue to use it. And thanks for at least the little bit of info for me LD. I understand that the whole Coir vs Sphagnum argument can be a little overwhelming, and it seems that a lot more than how plants grow in each medium, comes into play. I had not done all that much research about the difference between the two but am looking at a PDF from Utah State University that seems to be trying to prove that Coco causes slow growth when compared to Sphagnum, for a number of reasons. I guess I will have to finish reading this study but it looks like a good amount of field trials and tests were done to prove its point. But I will definitely be looking for another few sources of information about the benefits of Sphagnum use over Coco. And any links would be much appreciated! I have been trying to use deep internet searches lately to find PDF's from Universities and what not. Seems to be a pretty good research method so far, and I have been finding some really interesting info. But thank you very much for the explanation of LIQUID Silica. That really helped me to understand how it woks on an in depth level. Seems kind of like your plant's own little emergency response team. Sounds pretty useful to me. Any tips on a good brand? I guess I can try to see what I brands I can find in my area first. But I will definitely try to mix a bit of Sphagnum and EWC! Sounds pretty unbeatable. Thanks very much for the help once again LD.
Thanks for the response Storm Crow! I have heard a lot about sterilizing your soil or medium in the oven/microwave but am trying to run organics and I don't want to kill off all of my good microbial life and bacteria too! I will definitely set a fan up next to the little seedlings to keep some air movement though!
Yeah, I've heard of the sterilizing approach some growers use. I myself prefer to let my EWC inoculate my soil against pathogenic invasion. I've found that living soil keeps my plants healthy. chunk
Thanks for the reassurance chunk. I definitely think EWC are the way to go. I mean a living healthy soil seems to be the key to good organics. It is kind of an odd transition for me, from having a sterile "doctor's office" like grow room, to having a little living organic farm in my apartment's closet. I found springtails in my soil mix for the first time the other day and was a little freaked out when I saw them all climbing up the sides of the container after I wet the mix. I didn't know what they were at first but after a little close up examination and reading online I found out that they were actually helping break down all the nutrients in my mix so that my plant could uptake them more easily! I just don't understand why the United States (or even the world) tried to industrialize agriculture after the industrial revolution. Factories manufacturing goods are not the same as plants producing our food supply!
Agreed chunk. I am getting a little of topic myself. That video was great. I really liked the mixes they were using to start seedlings. I am thinking about making a mix purely for starting seedlings now. How about... 50% Sphagnum Peat Moss 25% Rice Hulls 25% Worm Castings (Thanks LD) The video gave me the idea of amending this mix with Dolomitic Lime, Azamite, and Kelp Meal. I also got my 5lbs of Neem Seed Meal in the mail yesterday. I ordered it from neemresource and am really excited to start trying to make neem teas! Would the Neem Meal help in my seedling mix at all? I am just a little unsure of the ratios at which to add this amendments. Any help would be appreciated.
Chief Tokem For researching information you can use SCIRUS and Google Scholar and both of these search engines will preclude you having to muddle through blogs, forums and worst of all - manufacturer's blab sheets on their products. You can also try SciNET, Scitation, Science.gov, Science Research, Science Accelerator, TechXtra, SciTopia, et al. What you'll find at most of these sites are links to studies held in repositories where you either have to have a membership or you do the 'pay per view' and the prices are not cheap. They usually range between $25.00 to $100.00 so that's probably not in the cards. What you can do is to copy the title of the study and paste that into regular Google, Bing, etc. and you can almost always find a site that has most of the study posted or you'll find a reference to that study with more information than you were able to get at the original link which provides you with the parameters of a study and the short version of the findings or results. If that doesn't work then going back to the original link and copying the names of the scientists involved in a study will often get you the information you're looking for. Liquid Silica: The main one sold and most easily sourced is Dyna-Grow Pro-TeKt. Their products are the main ones used by orchid growers so it's widely available. The recommend amount is 1/4 tsp. to 1 gallon of water though you can certainly use more without any problems. But at the recommended rate just buying a pint will last you for several months. HTH LD
Chief, I am looking at the neem web site and they warn against using more than 1% in your mix for young plants. Just a thought.
Sam Mcgee There is a post of mine on this board on this topic that I made. Someone had posted what you have on adding neem seed meal to potting soils. I read the post and called Ms. Rau and talked with her for a while about several things and then I asked her about her warning on the neem seed meal and seeds. She told me that her concern was about people buying commercial bagged potting soils like Miracle Grow, Super Soil, Scott's, et al. because of the slow-released chemical fertilizers that many of them include in the mixes. Her information from commercial nurseries indicated that there was enough of an issue to alert her. Keep in mind that in this environment the use of chemical fertilizers is exclusive - why they're adding neem seed meal is a mystery to me but it ain't my nursery. I asked her about the potting soil that many of us mix using #1 Sphagnum Peat Moss vs. commercial grade peat moss used in potting soils with organic compost and/or worm castings. I went over the main seed meals and minerals that many of us use and other processes I thought might be important. After I went through that she told me that we're working with something completely different than the potting soil she had based her comments on. So - with that I would say that people should test using it and another run leaving it out. Run some cheap seeds like corn or whatever. I haven't seen any issues but YMMV. HTH LD
Chief Tokem I forgot to mention JSTOR as a good science search site. You have to sign up for an account but it's free. Most of the articles linked at this site are free though some are not. It covers a huge range of topics besides Botany, Biology or Chemistry. Good luck on your project. LD
Thank you very much for the list of search engines for me LD! I have been developing my online research skills over the past few years, but there is so much info out there, I can only hope to try to accumulate a good amount of it on my hard drive or in my head. And i will definitely try a little more clever ways of googling the names of studies done and the scientists that performed them. And for sure! I will try to swoop up a bottle of Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt. I believe I have heard a good amount of talk from Jerry about the product and he has said only good things! The more I read up on the use of liquid silica, the more it seems like a really interesting idea to me. And thanks for the response about the neem meal LD! I knew I had read that forum where you explained that you had called the lady at neem resource! What I got out of your explanation (or her's I guess) was that living healthy organic soil is going to work great with the neem, she just warns people about mixing it with Scott's or Miracle Grow. From what I have read (even LD in the other forum), I think I will be safe using the neem meal as an amendment for my soil mix. And once again thanks for mentioning JSTOR! I was checking out all the other search engines, but I like that JSTOR lists each subject they have info on! I will definitely be filling up my computer and mental hard drive with some of this info I am so excited to find! I hope all goes well with the seedlings so I can start some selective breeding!