Espoma Organic Traditions

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by p_snickers, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. What does the community have to say about this line of products? So far, I've purchased the
    lime, Rock Phosphate, Green Sand, Starting mix with Mychorrhizae, and Garden Tone and the Garden Tone is the only one i have put to use so far, with good results (but what do i know? only my second grow/just started getting my hands dirty within the last year)

    â€Å“Natural Organic Plant Foods for Organic Gardening.â€Â
     
  2. The Starting mix i mentioned above is linked here
    Doesn't mention the species of bacteria or Mycorrhizae, so i'll list them :)

    Bacteria
    *Acidovorax Facilis 31 CFU's/gram
    *Bacillus licheniformis 312CFU's/gram
    *Bacillus Megaterium 312
    *Bacillus Pumilus 312
    *Bacillus Subtilis 312
    *Cellulomonas Flavigena 31
    *Paenibacillus Polymyxa 31
    *Pseudomonas alcalinges 31 CFU's/gram

    EctoMycorrhizae
    *Pisiolithus tictorius 88,184 propagules/gram
    *Scleroderma citrini 2204 props/gram
    *Scleroderma Cepa 2204
    *Laccaria Bicolor 440
    *Rhizopogon Roseolus 1102
    *Rhizopogon Subscaerelescens 1102
    *Rhizopogon Villosuli 1102
    *Rhizopogon vulgaris 1102 propagules/gram

    EndoMycorrhizae
    *Glomus aggregatum 1.32 propagules/gram
    *Glomus intraradices 1.32 propagules/gram

    I am a little saddened to see so few endo's in comparison to the ecto's...a little mad too that i didn't look before buying...saw the word "Mycorrhizae" and i just about shit my pants
     
  3. #3 LumperDawgz, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010
    p_snickers

    I think that this company puts out some of the finest amendment mixes available.

    Look at the one you're asking about specifically - here's the list of ingredients from the MSDS:

    Hydrolyzed Feather Meal - meaning that it's been fermented with lactobacillus bacteria which will negate this product's ability to burn young roots. Outstanding and seldom duplicated in the industry.

    Pasteurized Poultry Manure - same as above.

    Cocoa Meal - seldom used which is a shame.

    Bone Meal

    Alfalfa Meal - 'nuff said.

    Greensand

    Humates

    Sulfate of Potash

    Sulfate of Potash Magnesia - this is the form of K-Mag that is approved for organic growing/farming. Sulfate of Potash Magnesia is the name that a chemist would use. The layman's term Langbeinite and the wholesale name is K-Mag. It is often sold under the retail name of Sul-Po-Mag. This is one of the finest mineral amendments that you can use.

    Add a bit of limestone (Calcium Carbonate) and you'll have a well-rounded amendment mix for a very good price.

    "Highly Recommended" is the column that I would put this product under. I would say the same about the other products that I glanced at a couple of weeks ago at one of the farm store co-op operations which has begun to carry this line.

    LD
     
  4. Snickers, I'm using the Starter Tone with mycorrhizae and have been very pleased with it. LD gives the good breakdown analysis on their product line above. It's good stuff with quality sources and it smells wonderfully organic-good. Reasonably priced and easily available as well. Nice combo all of the three!

    The one thing I will add is, based on my current experience with it (and some other things), you will still need to supplement (boost) availability of other key nuturients in your grow cycle to fully maximize growth potential. Specifically I think the Ca, Mg, P, and K will need to be supplemented. Make sure you read up on LD and Chunkdaddyo's threads about 'the living soil' and 'micro herds', AACT's, etc. You won't be wrong going this route. Follow their advice and you can also save the money you were going to spend on a pH meter and buy something else!

    If you are growing organic and you are using a dry fert I don't think you can go wrong with this line of products. Safe, no burn, quality, etc. I'm getting their soft rock phosphate this week.

    MHO....Just a thought...or two. Good luck with your grow!
     
  5. #5 p_snickers, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010
    my last grow was mostly organic (used some Jack's Classic nutes about one month into floweriing, otherwise teas and top dressings)

    this grow i'm trying to do everything organic. I bought and demolished Teaming with Microbes and have done tons of reading (on this site) on the subjects of the microherd and AACTs. I've got many of the ingredients for a well balanced tea and soil mix. I'm still missing a few of the small things individually (some meals and other mor minor soil amendments), but that's what the Starter and Garden tones are for :) I love this organic thing and find it easier to keep up with and i know that, over time, my costs will all balance out to be cheaper than popular nutrient products on this site.

    one question about the rock phosphate:
    it comes it little chucks about the same size/shape of perlite. Do i want to pulverize this before adding into soil mixes and teas? also, when making tea, do I want to add the rock phosphate into the teabag or just into the brewing bucket loosely? I ask because i don't think i have read conclusively one way or the other anywhere on this site

    also, would bananas processed in any way provide a good K boost? my compost had plenty of eggshells thrown into it, so i'm not terribly worried about Ca, i have epsom salts for Mg,
     
  6. Papaya, Squash and Banana Extract

    Piece of cake!

    LD
     
  7. I can't find a label to read for the Espoma rock phosphate but I think it reads something like, “3% available, 24% total”. What this translates to, in general terms, is the water soluble percent of phosphate is 3%, and the remainder, 21%, is a form of P not immediately available to the plant. For example, raw rock phosphate ore has no significant P nutrient value at all. Raw P is treated either by heat or acid to convert the P into a water soluble form that can be used by the plant.

    I'm taking a fairly educated wag that the Espoma Rock Phosphate, like greensand, is more thought of as a ‘soil conditioner' whereas the Espoma Super or Triple Super Phosphate is considered a ‘fertilizer' or nutrient. Arguably, soil conditioners are used in agriculture for the long haul, 1 -3 years perhaps. If your soil will tend to run slightly acidic this will help break the rock phosphate down to the useable form of P if you decide to use it instead of a more soluble form of P like Super or Triple P. Does that make sense? Crushing it or breaking it up will have no effect or impact on its availability to the plant. And, using it as an input to an AACT is above my pay grade to answer. I don't know what, if anything, that would accomplish within the context of what an AACT is really all about. AACT's aren't considered for their nutrient value, only their areobic microbial value.

    I purchased the Espoma Triple Phosphate 0-45-0. This form of P is rock phosphate treated with phosphoric acid that chemically alters it into a soluble form that is useable by plants. The ‘45' represents 45% available water soluble P. Compare that to the 3% available P in the rock phosphate and you can see a significant difference. For our indoor uses we are better off using a P source where the label indicates “available” P, meaning it is water soluble and available as needed.

    Hope this helps.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. that does help. I wish i had seen the triple at the store. you are totally right on the 'available' phosphorus in regards to containers...unless i were to prepare my soils a couple of months in advance.

    In an AACT the rock phosphate (a la LDs posts) provides an anchor for fungi upon which they can grow. this will lead to higher fungal levels in the tea. the fungi, as you probably already know, assist greatly in the uptake or nutrients...especially phosphorus...and also provide more channels/tunnels in the soil which water and microorganisms can traverse easily.
     
  9. I know this is a little old, but my plants LOVE this stuff. I took over the care of 30 roses, and all got whacked down to a normal size since they were well over-grown. I fed a test bed out front with systemic fertilizer. No surprise to me, but they are low on bloom and instead focus on long runners that get out of control quickly.

    The bed with just espoma and some pelleted dolomite lime look fantastic! The leaves are a rich green, and they're completely full of blossoms. I'm expecting a nice show this week, about a month from the major pruning.

    This is carried at Lowe's and Home Depot, as well as stand-alone garden centers in our area. My only recommendation is to try to find a really fresh bag, or get it from a garden center that doesn't leave them out in the heat. For some reason most chain stores place it outside, in full sun. It can get to 116* and averages over 100* in the shade during summer months. That kind of heat can hurt the beneficials over time.
     
  10. Thanks for this info, i kinda get it better now. I will find some of this for bettrer availability.
     
  11. im fairly new to my grow im using the epsoma organic potting mix. all ive been using is water right now since my plant is only 2 weeks into its grow. i have a little bit of drooping but nothin tragic yet. i also picked up some jack classic all purpose 20-20-20. im not goi g to use that til later. but as far as blossom food how did the epsoma foods work out and which one did you use
     
  12. littledevil661,

    Drooping can occur when a plant is over watered......on a 2 week old plant, you should only have to water every 5-6 days, It's important to let the soil dry out to introduce oxygen to the root zone.

    If you by chance are watering more frequently, you will run the risk of root fungus/rot. Try letting your soil dry out considerably before watering again, and your drooping should go away.

    I'm unfamiliar with Jack Classic 20-20-20, but it sounds like a synthetic fertilizer. If you want to stay organic, Espoma has several other ferts in their line up that will keep your grow organic. Here is their blended fertilizer product line.......

    Welcome to Grasscity,

    chunk
     
  13. #13 littledevil661, Oct 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2010
    cool thank you . im going to pick up some flowering food ans some veg food this week . then wait to feed when i water afte 5-6 days. also its only one of the 2 that is drooping. i definatly hold back on the water and see how that goes. my temp and humidty is right on. thank you sir for the info
     
  14. #14 p_snickers, Oct 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2010
    I used Jack's classic on previous grows...both their AP 20-20-20 and blossom booster 10-30-20. With the all purpose, I didn't really have many troubles and it seemed to work alright. the Blossom Booster, however, gave me instant pH issues once i started to use it.

    Keep in mind, these are cheapo nutes...they really aren't the best and one could do much better. If you choose to use, though, IMO go really really light on the bloom, but the AP was kinda tough to over apply...They will grow a plant and can work just fine.

    in regards to the espoma stuff, I would choose one of their dry fert mixes.link I have only used their Garden-Tone, but I'm confident that you'd do very well with their Flower-tone or Tomato-Tone

    Personally, i went for several of their soil amendments because i was obsessing over building my own soil but it can get very expensive. This is why i recommend you going with their "tones" you can also find many of these products at home depot, lowes, and almost definitely at any garden center. EDIT: plus, they come in 4 and 20 lb bags...:D:D If you want to see home some of their other products perform check out my grow (link in sig) I have their Greensand, rock phosphate, garden-tone, bio-tone starter, and Garden lime (I don't even use it though)

    If you wanted to go with liquid ferts, they have This I've never used it (or even seen it in the store) but i'm sure it'd be okay. You'll want to grab some kelp/seaweed extract as well. Seaweed and fish extracts together can cover 90-100% of the stuff you'll need for a grow
     

  15. i know my local nursey has a line of epsoma. i looked at them really quick since i didnt have much time to look at all of time. im definetly going to get some garden tone for the vegging then plan my next attack for flowering. ive only used my jacks once since i got it. its sitting in a gallon of water right now. not planning on using it unless i really have to again once i get the right feed for my plants then i will be happy.
     
  16. My vote goes to Espoma. I use their bio-tone mixed into my soil and then supplement with tomato tone.

    I did the above on my patio plants (dill, oregano, rosemary, tarragon, strawberries, chives, lemon verbena, curry, red lip salvia, catmint, catnip, serrano, habanero, cayenne, cordofolia, spearmint, parsley).

    My catmint and salvia grew 2 to 4" after being planted with the bio-tone.

    Serranos sprouted three chilis last week after being treated with tomato tone.
     

  17. I'm glad you've picked up some of their products! I can't wait to see your other plants in bloom...I'm interested to see how well the tomato tone works
     
  18. I hit the girls with a 1/4 dose of tomato tone a week before transplanting into my smart pots (and subsequently mixing in the bio-tone). I can't tell you which one spurted the growth, but just a few days after the treatment, each plant grew a few inches, at least. :eek::eek:

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


    I'll keep this subscription and add updates as I progress. Here's a link to my organic grow where I do most of my postings.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/693617-barefoot-organics.html
     
  19. You do realize that plant tone lasts 3-4 months right, I use a handfull per plant in my outdoor grows.
     
  20. I have no problem using Epsoma's products in my near-organic garden and with my houseplants

    :)
     

Share This Page