Is there a difference between kelp meal and kelp extract? I'm trying to do a compost tea and the local nursery only had extract so that's what I used. Will I have a problem with kelp extract in tea? Thanks.
Kelp meal is preferred by most for teas and soil because it is minimally processed. The meal is washed and dried, then chopped. This minimal processing preserves the secondary metabolites in the kelp and there are many that are beneficial to plant health and growth. The extraction process to make kelp extract can damage some of the secondary metabolites but the elements remain intact. IIRC, the extraction process involves sodium hydroxide which is quite caustic. It is however approved as a solvent on aquatic plants for organic use by the USDA[cite]. I would use kelp extract very sparingly in your teas as it can cause fungi to die off. There is supporting information here. In closing, the thread linked below may be informative on the whole kelp paradigm. http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/951115-liquid-kelp-extraction-2.html#post12997326 Chunk
Microbe Organics Just so you know, I never really noticed the impact kelpmeal has in delaying bacterial division (& fungal growth to a lesser extent) until I started testing it separately and also began excluding it from compost tea recipes. I do not believe it has a similar effect in the soil.
Sorry for the long pause in reply. Thank's for the link. I consider myself an expert in kelp extract. I'll be switching it up to kelp meal soon enough. What is you compost tea recipe if you don't mind me asking?
This makes all kinds of sense, especially with people asking why their mix wasn't 'cooking' like it should and had used something on the order of 1-2cups of kelp meal/cf rather than the recommended 1/2cup/cf. It would get there eventually, but there did seem to be a delay I've noticed over time that kelp meal is like ginsing. Smaller amounts work better than large doses. Less is certainly more. Wet
Liquid kelp actually contains the highest in nutrients and most available for immediate use by plants compared with the powder or meal form. It can be cold-processed, or enzymatically digested. The digested form is a higher-quality formulation, so expect to pay a bit more. Its use might be best reserved for high-value crops. The digested form also contains more natural growth hormones (more than 60) than either of the other two extracted forms. The cold-pressed form will have less nutrients, but still offer more than powder or meal. Some of the growth hormones in liquid kelp include cytokinins to aid in the division of cells; auxins to promote root and cellular development; indoles to aid in root and bud development; and gibberellins to promote stem and seed development. But there are products extracting with chemicals and that is what we should stay away from. Liquid extracts work way better now that science has been improving.
How does an extract have more stuff in it then the source it was extracted from? This must be some kind of voodoo extraction you're talking about that magically adds stuff where it wasnt there before.
It is not about adding anything to kelp through extraction. Sorry you do not understand the science or maybe I am being confusing I apologize. Kelp gets processed in many ways in order for application of kelp on plants to be more efficient. Either through powder, meal form or extract all of these go through different processes to be made. Some processes will lose some of the beneficials that kelp has to offer while others break down the kelp in a way to keep all of its beneficials. Through living enzymes, we can make the beneficial elements of kelp all available. When you go through extraction processes that cause heat, agitation, or using certain solvents(Potassium Hydroxide), it causes the kelp to lose a lot of its beneficial properties. Just trying to share some knowledge. Happy growing to all!
The only way i could see a kelp extract contain more than kelp meal is if the kelp is processed as it is still fresh. Being fresh you could extract enzymes, hormones....and so on and keep them alive suspended in a solution (Think FPJ).
Kelp meal is great! Not trying to bash on it. Just giving some knowledge on the subject. Kelp meal is made through a drying process. This involves drying in the sun on wooden racks, or drying in a kiln. Kiln drying is faster, allowing manufacturers to produce a higher volume of fertilizer in a shorter amount of time but with the stress of heat/light, it will begin to lose some of the beneficial properties contained in comparison to the enzymatic process.
You do realize you posted in a thread that's almost seven years old to "spread some knowledge" right? Next thing you know you're going to try and sell us a product lol. P-
I can buy a 50lb bag of sun dried kelp meal for $50 and make a pools worth of extract, why would I want to pay the same amount for a gallon of tea/extract?
see if this makes sense today. it was applicable back in 2011. Can I make my own Kelp Extract? "LumperDawgz2, post: 11275410, member: 411067" LionInTheJungle The answer to your first question is 'No' with a couple of caveats and therefore the answer to your second question would also be 'No' The extraction methods used to produce seaweed extract from kelp can be divided into chemical hydrolysis (i.e. potassium hydroxide), physical extraction (i.e., high-pressure and cold process), biological fermentation (i.e., enzyme degradation method) and so on. The different content of active material and nutrient in the end product will be obtained by the different methods. The two companies that own the seaweed extract business are Maxicrop and Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. (ASL) and while both basically use the same chemical hydrolysis method, Maxicrop uses heat while ASL does not. An example of high-pressure extraction product is KELPAK which is based in South Africa and they use a different brown kelp than does Maxicrop & ASL (which use the North Atlantic variety). Examples of biological fermentation (enzyme degradation) are used in products like KelpGrow (British Columbia) and Eco-Nutrients' Eco-Nereo Kelp Liquid product and they're out of Crescent City, California. Most of the manufacturers in the world is using chemical hydrolysis, the biggest disadvantage of chemical method is that it destroys many activity materials and nutrients because of strong acid and high temperature. Biological fermentation is achieved by using multifold enzyme complex (papain & bromelain) which is obtained during the process of microbial metabolizing, to decompose larger molecule substances of algae into smaller and water-soluble ones, instead of strong alkali and high temperature of chemical method, and cold and high pressure of physical method, therefore, the natural bioactive substances in seaweed are furthest maintained in the end product. So, unless you'e pretty experienced in organic chemistry at least to the level found in completing (successfully) upper division classes in this area, I'd offer a kindly suggestion that at $14.00 per lb. for legitimate, human food-grade extract (which will make between 125 and 150 gallons of 'seaweed extract tea') you might find other things to consider to increase the viability & health of your garden(s). Taking kelp meal (or fresh kelp which is a really bad idea, BTW) and adding that to water with lactobacillus (like EM-1 or Carandang's BIM method) you'll end up with fermented kelp which is not seaweed/kelp extract by any definition. Not even close as far as it relates to polysaccharides, secondary metabolites, enzymes, et al. Even if you were to buy both papain & bromelain (easily sourced and cheap) you'd still need a solid background in both the science and methodology of extracting compounds from plant material(s) to pull it off. Something like that. LD
same comment as previous Can I make my own Kelp Extract? "LumperDawgz2, post: 11283018, member: 411067" WI Wolverine gave you the best advice in using kelp meal (which is basically untouched) with a 'helper role' using a seaweed extract powder. What you don't get with the powdered extracts are 2 of the major reasons for using kelp (algae) in the first place - Alginic Acid and Mannitol. However an extract is processed compounds like these (Secondary Metabolites) are completely de-constructed to their base elements, i.e. Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. Period. Take Alginic Acid for example, it has molecular formula of (C6H8O6)n which you can see is simply a hydrocarbon - Carbon (6) with Hydrogen (80) and Oxygen (6) in a specific structure. Regardless of structure this compound is broken apart in about 3 hours after introducing whatever chemical, enzyme or fermentation agent that is being used. The reason for wanting Alginic Acid in your soil is that it can absorb 300x it's weight in water meaning that having kelp meal in the soil will increase the water holding capacity whereas applying seaweed extract would not give you this benefit. The Alginic Acid went bye-bye. Same is true with Mannitol (C6H14O6) which functions as a chelating agent in the soil. It too is a hydrocarbon and is broken apart within hours. Same deal - using seaweed extract will not give you the benefit from Mannitol because there is none any longer. It also went bye-bye. LD
Well for sure there won't be as much as in fresh kelp, i think we can agree to that, i would have to look into your question though, i have no idea.