Some back-story to clarify how it is I got to this point. This grow is pretty much the definition of a crash course. My tokin' friends and I have been getting great bud from an indoor grower for a few years now pretty consistently. This batch my buddy picked up from him in the end of may was full of seeds, but was clearly the same strains (bubblegum, juicyfruit, and skunk) that we had been getting for a long time. There were a ton of seeds, and i keep my weed in a little mint tin, so after a while it was full of these beans, mostly from the juicyfruit buds. For shits and giggles i threw them in a planter and spread em around some. I didn't think they'd be viable really and figured if one or two came up it would be funny. Well, they all came up (i swear i didnt plant as many seeds as sprouted), and i couldn't make myself kill them for some reason... ...And so began this journey. Its only been a month since the first ones started breaking ground, but i have read an insane amount, experienced some weedling cultivation, and made some working setups, so it seems to me now that my recent state of pot-cultivation-ignorance is pretty distant. Also, somewhere along the line word got to us from the grower that the seeds were all caused by a trainwreck hermi fertilizing the lot. I have no more information regarding the nature of the hermaphrode IE genetic or environmental causes or combinations of causes, but i do know he was working with good genetics so i lean to at least some stress contribution to the herming. The information on what to expect from a hermi fertilizing a viable female is scant to say the least. People make claims but i have not been able to track down any verified results and then there are just as many conflicting claims. As best as i can garnish an understanding at this time: 1) A genetic hermi selfing will produce almost 100% herm offspring and be basically useless. No true males are created either. 2) An environmentally caused hermaphrodite selfy will likely pass on its tendencies to herm under some or other condition, but absent the stresses that caused it to develop male flowers, its offspring might be ok sometimes. 3) A genetic hermi x female plant will produce at least some hermaphrodite plants but not necessarily all, and will almost never produce a true male offspring. This would be pretty much a nightmare for a grower to keep plants almost to maturity only to have to off some or most of them. 4) A female plant that is stressed by photoperiod confusion or soil ph or whatever into producing male flowers will inevitably pass on the genetic weakness or predisposition that caused the hermi, but if crossed with a different female can result in offspring populations with relatively low or high (depending on the allele combinations in the cross) herm rates and again almost no true males. This is where the claims of making home grown femmed beans comes in, but when done by professionals the process is much more complicated. To start, the generation where the hermaphrodite is bread in requires selecting a female that is EXTREMELY resistant to herming and then forcing the fuck outta her with chemicals and hormones to produce pollen. This is not the case here... There is almost certainly a genetic predisposition to unwanted male organs disguised in female plants in this population. Anyways i know these genetics arent worth pursuing really, but ive got a ton of plants and i bought a ton (read: fucking shitload) of lights and equipment and i am having an absolute blast with this stuff so i got some legit genetics and have officially decided to grow pot. Not sure what my goals are long term cus i have a house being built that has some pretty prime spaces to grow. For now i am concentrating on this (probably doomed) crop of hermi-dad-bagseed and throwing in a couple legit plants to baby. I want to see what actually results from using the herm seeds and ive got a bunch of plants to play the numbers game with, so i figured i'd document it n see if anyone wants to learn with me! So, assuming all the information from the grower on strains and what happened is accurate, Here is what i've got: About 40 total plants maybe 50... 20 of them are in 1.75 gal pots and have been transplanted under a 400W mh for a week. I know for sure 8 of them are bubble gum x hermi-wreck the rest are either skunk or juicy fruit (vast majority JF) x hermi-wreck I also have one juicy fruit x hermi-wreck that is quite a bit ahead of the rest as it started life under good lighting in its own pot while the rest waited for me to get equipment for them (again, crash coarse). I plan to flower that one ahead of the rest in a cabinet box i made under 125W 2700k cfl and some supplimentary 24W bulbs mixed 6500 and 2700 starting wed. I just want it to give me some idea of what to expect from the rest. I then have a 10 day old nycd seedling (Born on the 4th of July!!) from the legit gens i bought. had a very slight cfl/fan/newt burn issue early on but is in great shape. For lighting i have to play with: 2 400W ballasts one switchable and one MH only 1 1000w switchable 3 bat wing mogul reflectors 9 assorted HID bulbs (including one hps and one mh 1000W) 4 105W 6500k cfl 4 125W 2700k cfl 2 65w dusk to dawn 6500k cfl (annoying separate ballast) 2 12 in round reflectors 1 1'x2' 4 lamp t5 6500k 1 1'x4' 6 lamp t5 6500k (DIY of mine http://forum.grasscity.com/lighting...-flourescent-tube-12-x-48-pics-questions.html) 1 shitload of desk lamps and 8" reflectors with another shitload of 42W and 24W cfl's of both red and blue. Right now i have 105W plus supplimental lighting on the plant i plan to flower wed and the 400W MH with supplimental lighting on the 20 prime specimens. The rest are in small pots being kept alive under t8's in case i need them So really, in this thread i want to concentrate on the 20 plants i have in the picture. Im going to label and clone each plant before i switch the lights and see what we get! Hopefully at least a few will grow some cool pure female crosses that i can raise a clone army of! I really think this will be an experiment worth following to get a more difinitive answer to the value of hermi bagseed and to see if there are any obvious differences in the rate of hermi offspring between strains with the same "father" Rudimentary Android pics attached... First is the 20 plants in question under a 400w MH... Second and third are my day 10 NYCD (its right here so i snapped a couple)... many and more better pics to come! Suggestions and questions welcomed...
id say that growing out the seeds from a hermi cross would be almost a waste of time. what you have posted about genetics seems to be correct. if you have a female that easily is stressed to become hermaphrodite its offspring will carry the same weakness most likely. but that is only if it was self pollinated. if it was a stressed hermi crossed with a strong female its about a 50/50 chance it will carry the weak hermie genetics or not depending on which genes become recessive or dominant. on the other hand if it was a genetic hermie that the "grower" had then the chances of its offspring being hermie will be even higher. it would be a 50/50 chance of it being hermie for sure, or not...instead of just carrying the weak genetics. also if you say it was the train wreck that went hermie...the seeds from the train wreck bud will be the most likely to be hermies, especially if it was a genetic hermie, it would have about a 99% chance of being hermie. it all really depends on what the grower did to end up with a hermie. if he stressed it out really bad it could be worth a shot growing out the seeds that were crossed from that hermie. if it easily went hermie it could be too weak to even waste the time and money on growing them. and if it was genetically a hermie, i wouldnt personally waste my time. did he always grow from clone? was it a new batch of seeds? if he always had the same bud and was taken from clone, that rules out the genetic hermie... when people create feminized seeds they use 1 of a few different methods, rodelization which is letting your plant flower way past the time its supposed to be cut, at a last ditch to produce offspring it creates pollen sacks...not all strains will do that and usually dont produce much pollen. some people also use colloidal silver which forces almost any female to produce pollen sacks. i just did this for the first time, on a strain that i have stressed out a million times and its never went hermie. my guess is that the seeds will be strong females since the plant originally was strong to handle strong stressful conditions, but was forced to create pollen using colloidal silver. on the plant i sprayed i used its pollen to pollinate the same phenotype different female. should be interesting to see what you end up with none the less. good luck
yea i agree with everything you said there... basically they were just already going when i found out the genetics were tainted... and i have a lot of them so its a good opportunity to fuck around and see if nothing else if i can verify what makes sense to me. i think it is the case that the hermi was somewhat environmental... i mean the guy grows a lot of bud, but light leaks are easy to miss... but it also means the plant was probably pretty predisposed to goin herm, so what i expect is that there is weakness, but i might be able to find a few cool plants that dont show it or that didnt pick up the weakness for clones... and ya i didnt use ANY of the train wreck selfy seeds... never even possessed the train wreck. There is always a chance that none of these will show any problems too if the grower did stress the crap outta it somehow or its just a recessive allele causing the problem and the parents have the "antidote" dom allele. Just think it will be fun finding out cus they are great parent strains and i have a billion more seeds if they all turn out ok. Here is to hoping lol! Oh and yea like i said there is a real lack of info on the nature of the hermi. I dont know the grower personally. friend of a friend of a friend. So thats kinda the variable im solving for. I suspect it was somewhat enviornmental and that there might be something to salvage here and learn too. Of course if they are all just a mess from the start i reserve the right to rip the buggers out 10 days into flower and germ a bunch of the 400 dollar july promo order i made.
Some quick extra pics: First 3 are of the plant of the same age as the rest but that had a lighting and soil head start. In the first pic you can see some other stragglers i dont know what to do with. Third pic showing 9 fan leaf on that bad girl. Last pic is just the MH doing its thing. thermo reading under 80... should i drop the light a bit?
Damn im surprised this has gotten no love... ill beat the horse a little deader anyways one week later: Big juicy x hermi-wreck went into flower today. Last veg feeding with grow big. ghetto setup for now but it will hold. Just wrapped two layers of black out shades around the whole closet and fixed pvc elbows facing down on intake/exhaust. Pics are: 1 - 2) flower box with 125W 2700k cfl, 2 x 26w 2700k cfl, 2 x 6500k cfl.. 3) Ghetto flower box 4) 20 crosses under the MH one week later... pretty awesome growth (tight and bushy) 5) NYCD one week later. Welp... cant upload... so pics to come.
You may not have any hermies anyway. If your grow bro told you it was a herm Trainwreck plant it may have been a situation where a Trainwreck plant he had produced some late male staminate hairs (as the Trainwreck strain is known to do), and it pollenated some early flowering girls in the room. If that's the case you should get all girls with only a few hermies. Hope for the best man
Testing... OK fine ill find a third party host... Here is the stuff i wanted to upload yesterday in annoying link form Ghetto flower box for the first juicyfruit x hermi-wreck to make weight: PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing The 20 still catching up under the MH one week from last shot... These are extremely bushy with tons of cross branching. Pic sucks i know, im working on it: PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing The Independence Day NYCD on day 15: PicValley.net - FREE anonymous photo hosting and photo sharing I guess these will work for now... Anyone know why i suddenly cant upload to GC??
Actually if this is the case (which is what i hope) there wont be any herms unless i too flower them too long or stress them somehow.. We have said it already, but thats the point here; Im interested to see which of the crosses do better and how prevelent this herm tendancy is in each cross.
Little update... Still no sign of sex 7 days after making the switch on the closet plant... The ones under the MH are getting scary. Probably switch them soon. NYCD is doing some cool things under the 3 cfl bulbs, but more on that when i can get pics. Here are 2 pics of the 20 under MH (raised the light and fan rack since last time) And 2 pics of the giant trying to flower in the closet. What you think, time to flower the sog? Thinking about just leaving them in this configuration under HPS 400w and training the space as best i can. Thoughts?
Here are some pics of the July 4th NYCD on day 24... I have been using 3 CFL bulbs to veg since like 3 inches, and the growth is dense and pretty cool. Still showing scars from the burn she got while i was away, but new growth is everywhere. I have gotten her to put out 3 growth sites and used the lights to draw them out the sides by keeping one bulb trained on each growth point and neglecting the top or center for the most part. Check out what i have cooking with no physical training whatsoever! Day 24 (see the 3 growth nodes are pulling almost to the height of the plant!)
Checked again today and on the 8th morning of 12/12 the first pistils showed up... Pic is a little hard to see but i circled them lady parts. Also if anyone is following this, or would miss it if it was gone, hit the reply box! Show is about to start!
Ok, so i put them all on 12/12 today and changed out the 400W MH for a 600W HPS. I did a flush with just a very light Big Bloom mix and sorted them by size so i could shim two rows for the ones that for one reason or another are a little behind. Ph is right in line at around 6 average. If we are counting from left to right, the fourth "column", if you will, got a complete haircut. I took off all fan leaves not directly surrounding growth nodes. You can kinda see it in the picture. Not sure if this is the right time to do that so someone chime in, but i just thought id try it full out on a few and see the difference. The 4th and 5th columns are shimmed up so the tops are near the average of the other 3 columns. Juicy fruit crosses are much taller as a rule, which is to be expected i hear. The big closet plant has more bud sites starting, but looks more or less the same so no new pics there. NYCD update in an hour or so... I topped it, attempted to use the top as a clone (fingers crossed), and did a little training (if it can be called that) with twisty ties. Pics of that soon. Comments/Suggestions are Encouraged/Requested Here are the 20 bitches waiting to get slapped by the 600W 12/12 cycle:
And as promised, the NYCD on day 25 after a few hours recovery from trim and tug. Pretty pleased with how it is responding: 1. Attention Citizen Snips, Cliptown USA 2 - 5. A few angles of the work in progress 6. Deluxe grow space
What a difference a day makes! Yesterday: Today: Took all them fan leaves off but she just keeps growing more lol! Plan on topping each main node one more time for 2 more clones and to see if i can get the branching to catch up in height for a little better canopy.
Couldn't see the pic of it today, but it sounds like your getting exited. Keep up the good work brutha
i love the transition to flower...you can pretty much watch it grow lol. everyday you check it, it looks way different. also it looks like i may be dealing with playing with some hermie seeds also. just checked my plant this morning, and found a nanner <(0)>,,<(0)> ive been growing the same plant for 8 months now and never seen it hermie until now. i accidently got some nute burn, instead of changing out the water in the res, ive been adding nutes to it for 2 weeks(2 weeks after i was supposed to change it) *smacks self for being lazy* i chopped the nanner off and cant find anymore, but its a decent sized plant so who knows what its hiding.
The NYCD is still vegging, but yea man i cant get over how like the whole engine changes and it starts manufacturing different parts... Happens so quick with the light change. Imagine being the guy to figure that shit out the first time lol? you gonna try to get some viable pollen out that nanner??