WD, Good video! Who makes those LED bars? Are they Isis's? Thanks. I'm don't need this much production cause I'm not in the business. I do this is because I love everything bout the subject except for the ridiculous, nonsense, and persecution that we endure worldwide. No, they are the Illumitex Eclipse and Neosol series. Not cheap. US-made, very expensive at $320 for 12 x 3w. That's almost $9/w compared to $3/w for comparable powered units. This is not even 36w actual draw, but only rated wattage. I think F1 and F3 spec. are their version of NASA's spec. and not a NASA designation, per say. I feel there's much more feasible alternatives currently avail. that will offer the same performance. You got your self smoked up Great read on the light configurations. My HGL's crank along fine in veg but have issues during flower like you said but the quality meds was always better than HPS. If ya seen the pics a few post up hitting it with the HPS tightened up the buds. I too think ya need more whites in there.... Of course. This is why all of us are here, bud. Yeah, she finally decided to join the 3w club because she couldn't beat them, I believe. Yeah, but like I said before, this kind of defeats the purpose of using a replacement along with the unit you're trying to replace. Hopefully the approx. 15% extra power from the more efficient white led's will omit the use of the HPS.
Well it definitely depends on the size of the plant... Your not going to get an actual 300 watts with a 100 x 3w light. That was the hype in the beginning days of LED's resellers. With flowering you will get "airy" (cotton ball) buds. The quality of the buds are always excellent. In actuality you have to keep your plant in the core footprint.Take a look at the Tube for Zepperone he keeps it simple and purchases "off the shelf" lights.
MC, I totally concur! Like you I don't grow for quantity. I am more interested in the medicinal properties of these lovely ladies. Especially for pain management. My patient has been using this med for about three years and their quality of life has vastly improved. Since we utilize the whole plant to produce various forms of meds. My fear is that big pharma is waking up and starting to throw their money and political connections to wrest away our ability to grow tailored medicine for our patients...
Thanks everyone for the info. I feel reassured, i don't care so much about the airy bud factor especially if they are good quality. Like the old saying "quality >quantity". Also the 9 girl with 300w is impressive. I thought you needed at least 200 "advertised watt“ per plant with led. This boost further my theory that MH\\hps is on it's last few years of dominance over the market.
I totally concur! Like you I don't grow for quantity. I am more interested in the medicinal properties of these lovely ladies. Especially for pain management. My patient has been using this med for about three years and their quality of life has vastly improved. Since we utilize the whole plant to produce various forms of meds. My fear is that big pharma is waking up and starting to throw their money and political connections to wrest away our ability to grow tailored medicine for our patients... WD, Yelp. That's not to say I haven't tried the system. You can definitely get some substantial yield using this system, because you can at least double yield since you are increasing the grow area by a 100% for every level. Regarding the yield and quality, I think there's a common misconception that anyone can hang up a nice, legitimate panel up and expect to get at least .5g/w. Yes, this can be done if everything was dialed but that's not a realistic expectation since it takes a lot of experience, work, and dedication to achieve this kind of yield. The other issue is that many of us have not had that much, if any, experience in using led grow panels so we tend to get over excited when we finally get to work with one, especially if it actually works. Yeah, one's not concern bout quantity and just quality, then one should look at yield as money left in a Swiss account. One doesn't really need it, but it's nice to know that it's there. lol. It's nice to see everyone here, especially the people who are taking the leap of faith to get onto the led revolution because not long ago this tech. was still being ridicule and frowned upon by the so-called experts. Regarding the big pharma cartel buying our rights off, hopefully this movement has gotten too much momentum for them to stop the will of the people. They are already competing with each other on how to capitalize on this wonder healing plant so let's brace ourselves. Even if they commercialize the crap out of this, there's always a market for small specialize, niche market such as the beer industry. The master growers will become the high-end, special micro-brewers, if you will. Like anything, the market will always demand a high-end niche product for people who demand the best and willing to pay for it.
Thanks everyone for the info. I feel reassured, i don't care so much about the airy bud factor especially if they are good quality. Like the old saying "quality >quantity". Also the 9 girl with 300w is impressive. I thought you needed at least 200 "advertised watt“ per plant with led. This boost further my theory that MH\\hps is on it's last few years of dominance over the market. Vman, That's what this place is all about. You don't need that much, unless you're growing 5ft.+ indo-monsters. If you are growing them that big then would really need to split the wattage into as many panels you can in order to literally surround your girl with it. This is the only way because the penetration even for a 5w, will not be very much on a canopy of that size. Keep in mind that even sunlight will not penetrate much into the canopy but relies on the sun's rotation to hit the girls inside at different angles as it moves over them. This is yet another benefit of scattering the wattage to multiple smaller units to give you flexibility of surrounding the girls and hitting them at different angles all the time instead of intervals due to the sun's movement. This in my opinion is a better alternatives than throwing higher and higher powered chips in hopes on increasing penetration and intensity. If you notice that if u change to different viewing angles looking into the canopy, you will only be able to see some of the inner growth n shoots. You then change your current viewing angle and you now will be able to see another part of the inner growth. The sun's rotation and the plant's natural ability to seek light by strategically directing growth to be one hella solar panel. I also found that defoliation method really helps on the yield since led's are inherently low intensity. I know some of us this is a taboo subject, defoliating, but can attest to u it works in my experience. I concur with u as the long reign of HID's is almost coming to an end with the progression of more efficient and powerful led tech. It will do everyone including the environment a lot of good. Imagine just the energy savings and solid, toxic wastes from the HID's alone is a service to society.
WD, I forgot here's the link for the lights Rocky Mountain High used in that vid. clip. http://www.diamond-grow-lights.com/Illumitex-LED-Grow-Light-Bars:::7.html
Spot on with canopy penetration and the suns movement. I have seen a system where the plants actually circle the light.and rotate around it. You also have light movers. It really wouldn't be that hard to fabricate up a light mover rail on an arc and a simple servo motor system to change the angle of the light as it transverse its path. Yes defoliation tends to be a touchy subject. You can train a plant like a bonzi. . I honestly just let the ladies go au-natural with limited pruning. Since we utilize most of the plants for various things...As for HID that is a good stable cash cow for the hydro stores because of the bulb replacement. There is not much to replace on an LED Panel. In three years I lost one cooling fan and one light module. It was a simple as unplugging the module putting in a new one.... The technology for LED will continue to evolve. Yet sitting out there on the horizon are the plasma lights. Now your talking about bringing the "sun" indoors... WD, Yes, but I tend to prefer the KISS principle to eliminate potential problems ahead of time. This is especially true when attempting to actually use a prototype as the main unit will usually lead to working out the bugs. Keeping them fixed at multiple points will ensure penetration at different angles and more sturdy since it's a moving part vs. a fixture. Simple physics will determine which is more solid and reliable. Light movers are great cause it will help u save on the amount of required panels to cover the same area and help mimic the sun's movement. I think better stated would be that I remove some of the big fan leaves that are so big that they block all the light leaving the inner and lower branching almost no light. Defoliation turns a lot of people off and I'm not that extreme with my girls. This makes the inner and lower buds of much lower quality including small, airy cotton ball-like. This is especially true with small, ultra-bushy strains bred specifically for high-density sog applications. I have a freaky dwarf swiss sativa type that's only bout 12" finished but is so bushy and branching so thick that it looks like a sponge made of primo bio-mass. Incredible looking plant, literally looks like a bunch of grapes with bud berries, if u will. If anyone has ever grown GH Church knows the characteristic I'm referring to. If you don't removed some of the suckers and leaves, air circulation might be affected bringing issues like mold and mildew, especially during the crucial later stages when the buds are more developed and thicker. Nothin' wrong all naturale' grunge look, as long as yield is not a concern. Still always nice to get more for the same amount of effort and resources invested. You're right the HID has already made so much money having the reign for so long now. I think their days are numbered and will be a matter of short time that the led as well as other unreleased tech. will finally put the final nail onto the HID coffin. This will be a great feat for all of us since this technology is also being used to grow food for us. I think due to the extreme value of the finished product, we will ultimately enjoy the most cutting-edge tech. available to the public. Because of the high reliability and relatively simple modular designs affording simple DIY repairs, the industry is making a very positive shift favoring us, the consumers. This is why see the new trend in this led market with manufacturers like LG, and others will follow seeing their success, go direct marketing to us the end-users. This is a mutual beneficial relationship for the factories and us, while leaving the rip-off resellers in the cold. Yes, like with any technology we use now will be sure obsolete in the future. The important thing is for us to make the best possible informed decision so that the panels we buy now will still produce the same quality as it did when u originally bought it.
day-stalker: ah, kk, never played that so I didn't catch it at first 7 ft flower and 5 ft veg would stil end up to be just one level of yield. Over the past two days however, I have considered hanging a small vegging cabinet under the ceiling in another part of the room. But I still wanna hold on to the idea of a no-veg-grow. I am still hoping that someone with experiences here concurs with me on the idea that this would maximize the efficiency of yield over time. Grow medium: What advantages does your mix of coco and hydroton have? I would like to go DWC, but as the bathroom is too far away, this is not an option. So right now I just wanna find the medium that allows me to get around 2 pounds per cycle with minimal contamination threats (pests, insects, etc). I am always open for suggestions and interested in ideas and experiences but I am one of those annoying guys who always need arguments, data and numbers to change my mind Hey WD! No, I meant the following possible setups: I'd like about 2 pounds per cycle, so I'd need about 1000+ watts pure. a) 2 Mars II 400 (170w) for each level (1020w total) beh) 2 mars II 700 (300w) for each level and one Mars II 900 (400w) for the smaller compartment (1600w total, I don't dare get more than that) c) 3 Mars II 400 (170w) per level and 2 for the lower compartment (1360w, size would fit perfectly) d) 1 Mars II 1200 (520w) per level (1560w total) When advising me on this, plz keep in mind that Mars II lights reach from about 0,8w per $ up to about 1,1w per $. I must say, for the footprint I prefer option c. It would mean a) that in one direction the ceiling of each compartment would be filled with light, or beh) I put them into a rough triangle shape to counter this what's-the-law's-name-again law. On the other hand this would be about 510w for about 630$ (retail) versus a Mars II 1200 with about 500w for 430$ (per level). Is the footprint worth the difference of 200$? <span style="background-color:rgb(252,252,252);"> Does anyone know the current "forum"-prices for those lamps? Possible bulk savings?</span> Thanks for your advice on Filter and ventilation. I specifically chose those vents because they are very silent (8dB). I will look into bathroom vents (although they seem to be very loud to me) and into other pc vents with a higher output (wave to output^^). I will try and find charcoal filter videos on youtube, thx! Aloha MC, welcome back to the forum and to the end of your hectic holiday First of all: Thx for the vid. This is precisely what I had in mind (although all of their levels seem to be about 5'). Thanks again for your info. To be honest I was kinda waiting for your replies, because I think we think a lot alike. Thanks again for summing up your spectrum experiences. So what would you say to those questions? a) Is it feasible to do a non-veg-grow sog on 3 levels with level height 2*3 ft and 1*5 ft B) Which spectrum would you suggest for that specifically? I know I'm gonna go read, but which wavelengths? c) Does footprint justify higher costs? (See calculation above) d) Would you be so kind and even give your opinion on the questions and ideas in my earlier post? I know, it's a female dog to read, but you would secure my never-ending gratitude by sharing your thoughts on those This is exactly what I meant completely agree. what do you think of my idea of growing my ladies just 12/12? this way most of them would probably end up under 20" and it would allow me to use this 3 level system, thus maximizing the efficiency of my grow space. Thanks again you guys!
I have got a room where I do a SOG in my mix place clones soon as they have legs and they are 12/12 from then on I get a wet weight of roughly 84g per cola dried 24g and they are grown in 1 pint plastic cups if that will help you with any rough weights Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
Ice, Sorry bud, I haven't forgot your post. Just glanced at it and knew I needed some time to absorb, because you had so much info. to be digested. I actually have done this before and you can see from my post pics that my tent is perfectly suited for this application at 1m(w) x 2m(l) x 1.5m(h) for a bi-level application. Your footprint's bout half of mine with twice the height allowance. I might set up a round for shits n' giggles to see what kind of yield, and treat myself with a merdus-load of concentrates. Wait. You wanted my 17cents worth on this, but I only have 2, so let me crack open another roll of pennies before we start, bud. I'd like about 2 pounds per cycle, so I'd need about 1000+ watts pure. Can be done but will take a lot of care and attention to details to achieve this goal. Please clarify 1000w+ pure . Are u referring to actual drawn wattage? Is this per level or all three levels? Please note that that there's a minimum recommended height requirement that the panels should be positioned over the canopy for coverage and spectral saturation for the 5w, which is greater vs. 3w counterparts. This is especially true with your proposed height limitation of 3'. Even if u flip them as soon as they root, you're still looking on 10-18" done and after container/medium and hardware mounting allowance say another 12", you're really pushing the coverage and saturation effectiveness of the 5w. This is actually defeating the purpose and value of the 5watters application. If you notice on the system used by Rocky Mnt. High vid., those light bars are strategically scattered to provide an even coverage/canopy to improve uniformity and yield. They are also 3watters, which demonstrates it's worthiness under actual application, especially with height limitation that will also determine the distance to canopy requirement vs. the 5w. This problem is inherent with any type of hood or reflector design that will cause an uneven canopy with the center of the footprint's growth sometimes shading the outer plants because of the extra intensity it gets being centrally positioned. This problem is further exacerbated by the inverse-square-law effect that even a 5watters can't overcome. The 5watters will be good if you were not going to go multi-level and grow taller bigger strains and sativas where the extra wattage to carry it the extra distance comes into play. a) 2 Mars II 400 (170w) for each level (1020w total) Perfect for vegging but pushing it for flowering unless fluffy cotton ball buds is not an issue. beh) 2 mars II 700 (300w) for each level and one Mars II 900 (400w) for the smaller compartment (1600w total, I don't dare get more than that) This will be the most economical and efficient use of resources for your application size. Though I would still personally go with the 3w if you're working with a 3' limitation. The 900 will not be a very efficient use of power since it's too powerful in my opinion for a stand alone led unit because u always have to take the inversesquarelaw into consideration due to the led's inherent low intensity vs. hid's. I feel anything over 400w for a stand alone led panel will start to diminish it's efficiency dramatically due to this, hence the recommendation to split the wattage into multi-units placed directly over the canopy to offset it's negative effects. c) 3 Mars II 400 (170w) per level and 2 for the lower compartment (1360w, size would fit perfectly) Not economically feasible since the cost per watt is much higher than the next model the 700. You're also working a 2x2'core footprint, which makes it a red headed step child in this case. d) 1 Mars II 1200 (520w) per level (1560w total) Bad idea as the inverse-square-law will make sure you're only getting only a fraction of the intensity on the outer areas since you are actually relying on the secondary light because the primary area is directly underneath the panel itself, hence the recommendation to split the wattage into multi-units. When advising me on this, plz keep in mind that Mars II lights reach from about 0,8w per $ up to about 1,1w per $. I must say, for the footprint I prefer option c. It would mean a) that in one direction the ceiling of each compartment would be filled with light, or beh) I put them into a rough triangle shape to counter this what's-the-law's-name-again law. On the other hand this would be about 510w for about 630$ (retail) versus a Mars II 1200 with about 500w for 430$ (per level). Is the footprint worth the difference of 200$? <span style="background-color:rgb(252,252,252);"> Does anyone know the current "forum"-prices for those lamps? Possible bulk savings?</span> Maan, it's a task keepin up with you when you're heavily medicated. lol. It's the inverse-square-law. Something that must be consider in designing an effective led, or any other light source, except for sunlight, which it does not apply because sunlight is constant at any distance. Yet even the sun can't effectively penetrate a leaf properly because it's so well designed as a solar panel so the argument for extra wattage to penetrate the canopy should be reconsidered. A better approach is what I suggested previously is to use multiple panels so u can hit the canopy at different angles to actually have direct light contact not weak secondary, diffused light filtering thru the canopy. This is a recipe for the poo-poo popcorn buds as demonstrated even on outdoor plants baking in the sun. <span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="color:#000000;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color:rgb(252,252,252);"> </span></span></span></span> Thanks for your advice on Filter and ventilation. I specifically chose those vents because they are very silent (8dB). I will look into bathroom vents (although they seem to be very loud to me) and into other pc vents with a higher output (wave to output^^). I will try and find charcoal filter videos on youtube, thx! monkeychief68, on 25 Jan 2014 - 12:56 PM, said: Aloha MC, welcome back to the forum and to the end of your hectic holiday First of all: Thx for the vid. This is precisely what I had in mind (although all of their levels seem to be about 5'). Thanks again for your info. To be honest I was kinda waiting for your replies, because I think we think a lot alike. Thanks again for summing up your spectrum experiences. So what would you say to those questions? a) Is it feasible to do a non-veg-grow sog on 3 levels with level height 2*3 ft and 1*5 ft Thanks, glad to be back and glad to have someone that is actually waiting for my ramblings. Yes, that's exactly what I do, including seedlings which I put directly under 12/12 from the get-go. It basically turns them into an auto-flowering mode, which is why these so-called auto seeds is kinda scam cause a photo-period strain will finish approx. a week or max. two longer than the autos but with more potency. The reason for this is auto seeds are created by combing a standard strain with a ruderalis strain(indigenous to Kazakhstan region), where plants must endure harsh short summer so plants have to start budding as soon as it sprouts to head off the winter months. Photo-period strains when forced 12/12 will end up approx. same size with comparable yield as auto counterparts but with more potency since ruderalis plants generally has very low thc content. I hope I didn't offend anyone who is using a 5w panel, which from feed-backs so far has been excellent. I'm just still skeptical because of the actual difference between a 3w and 5w are only about a little more than .5w due to heat and efficiency issue with the current avail. technology as many of the issues we talk bout today will be hearsay tomorrow. Yes, it's not just feasible, it's precisely what I was about to suggest to u. This is pretty much what I but recommend that u veg. them at leat a week or so because what might happen depending on the strain is they might end up only being one main cola with will limit your yield. I would recommend if possible is I would recommend going 2(4ft), and 1(3ft.) for the following reasons. 4ft. will give u enough height allowance to finish many strains that will only reach approx. this height. This also gives u more than enough height allowance permanent mount your panels so no further height adjustments are needed similar to the video set up. This gives u the flexibility of flippin' them as soon as they root or veg. them a bit to increase your yield. Contrary to popular believe, I never keep a mom but choose to take clones off the teens as the grow proceeds. This way will eliminate the need for a dedicated mother As far as degeneration concerns, The difference so so negligible, it's not even worth considering unless you're a breeder in my opinion. This way, there's no need for a dedicated veg. area, and dedicate all 3 level for budding, which will help u achieve the 2lbs. objective while u're dialing in the grow. As with anything, the first few rounds are just to break u and the system into unison. There's no need for a 5' level since led's is not the ideal light source to grow anything over 4ft. if quality and yield is of concern. I've done this system before running soil in (25) 1gal. grow-bags in a 4x4' averaging 20g+ each for a total approx. over a pound. This will vary on the strains, experience, and some luck to achieve not to say impossible. This is the reason I suggested the 3rd level flowering to help u achieve your 2lb. goal. I feel with 3m2, which is basically what u have with all 3 levels combined, using this system and if u go hydro, your goal will be a very realistic one to achieve. At a minimum of 16 plants per level x 3, at say 20g/plant, will give u approx. 960g, which is exactly your goal. You might be able to fit another row in each footprint, which will further increase your yield. The figure of 20g is based on my personal experience using soil with no commercial additives so I know hydro can do this, if not better. I also think this is bout the max. yield of quality meds, since most of the buds are colas because of the inherent even canopy growth resulting in mostly main and sub-colas, and not airy, popcorn lower buds caused from shading. I feel that this type of grow method fully exploit the advantages of led such as very low operating temps that allow them to be place very close to the canopy without any detriment effects. B) Which spectrum would you suggest for that specifically? I know I'm gonna go read, but which wavelengths? Any of the white dominated spec. will do fine. I tend to favor the the CW(6k)/630nm or the all warm whites spec. from my observation so far since I received these new spec. lights. Since I just got them recently so haven't had the chance to flower with them so far but like what I've seen so far vs. my T-8's and standard, red-dominated 11+ spec. There's a visual difference in new shoots and rate of growth along with less stretch than the red spec. Another advantage of the white spec. is that the spectral saturation is no longer a concern, since the color itself includes the full spectrum similar to natural sunlight. This school of thought bout' overloading the girls with different shades of reds doesn't make much sense to me. If nature intended the plants to need that much red spectrum then the ambient light we enjoy now will be the pinkish/red tint similar to our red spec. panels. Maan, if u woke up one morning and look out and everything's red like our tents, might make u stop burning for awhile. lol. Yes, the plant will compensate for the shortcomings, which can't be good because that's forcing the plant to compromise on its needs. Regarding to par spectrum debate. I feel the best thing to do is emulate nature(sunlight spectrum in this case) the best we can and with the current technology, the different shades of whites is the closest we can come to natural sunlight. I think it's foolish and arrogant of us to think that we can master and dictate what nature needs, and re-invent a wheel as complex as mother nature. Nothing can operate at it's peak when force to compromise in any way. This is just common sense. Gotta play my damn broken record again.. U can't expect an engine to run at it's peak with half the valves clogged. I can't recall if you are set on the (2) 3ft., and (1)5ft. levels. If so, u can still make do with the 3ft. limitation as long as u flip them immediately as planned. c) Does footprint justify higher costs? (See calculation above) Yes, and no. Yes, if money's not an object. No, if it is, because u should be fine with the 900 in your footprint size. d) Would you be so kind and even give your opinion on the questions and ideas in my earlier post? I know, it's a female dog to read, but you would secure my never-ending gratitude by sharing your thoughts on those Hopefully just did, bud. It's cool, we all dislike female dogs but we still have to live and deal with them everyday. ol monkeychief68, on 26 Jan 2014 - 08:16 AM, said: This is exactly what I meant I feel it's the ideal application for led's, if used properly, has the inherent ability to produce a more even canopy I previously mentioned.. The idea with led is have an even canopy as possible so there's no empty airspace with the canopy area, and cover the whole area with buds and radiate them with as much light as possible. monkeychief68, on 26 Jan 2014 - 8:35 PM, said: completely agree. what do you think of my idea of growing my ladies just 12/12? this way most of them would probably end up under 20" and it would allow me to use this 3 level system, thus maximizing the efficiency of my grow space. Couldn't agree with u more. Highly recommended.
I have got a room where I do a SOG in my mix place clones soon as they have legs and they are 12/12 from then on I get a wet weight of roughly 84g per cola dried 24g and they are grown in 1 pint plastic cups if that will help you with any rough weights DS, Can u please clarify this. ..roughly 84g per cola dried 24g and they are grown in 1 pint plastic cups if that will help you with any rough weights 24g dried cola's still a "donger" for a pint of soil? I've played with the standard Wal-Mart dixie cups with BubbaKush before cause I had an extra clone so I threw it into the flower room and ended up with bout 7-8g single cola. Looked like a little mini cactus, but smelled a lot better. Still, 24g's nice yield for a pint.
I use full range of HnG with the addition of MOAB in stead of shooting powder. After I wrote this I checked to see Wat my cups hold 1 litre not one pint. But yes roughly 84 wet and 24 dry straight cola
I use full range of HnG with the addition of MOAB in stead of shooting powder. After I wrote this I checked to see Wat my cups hold 1 litre not one pint. But yes roughly 84 wet and 24 dry straight cola DS, Cool. That's probably bout more than double of mine since I no longer live in the states and recall the actual size of the cup I used, but that's still a very efficient use of resource and space. Come think of it, I always thought but never got round to testing running a tray of say 20 cups x 4 = 80 cups, into say a 4x4, which could technically according to yours and mine experiment can yield in upwards of 1kg. The average between yours and mine will put it over the kg. mark, which would make it hit the holy grail 1g/w mark. Even at 7g, which is what I got, will put the yield at a hypothetical 560g, which is phenominal in anybody's book with led's. In fact, sounds like I know what I'm going to be playing with soon. I feel this is the ideal application for this technology within it's capability at this time. I'm going to run (3) x 220w for 660w and (4) x 220w for 880w actual, and see if the extra wattage is feasible. This will eliminate the penetration concern since the total height of a single cola should be well within the power of say a 3w system. I think in this application the 5w will be more of a hindrance than an asset.
I don't want to sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet. But I have been hitting over 1gpw with mh/hps for a few years now and my SOG tent is yet to have a led my current challenge is the hygrohybrid 1lb per plant dry iv just flipped the girl over to 12/12 and with a total of 80+ tops hoping iv got it. My SOG tent is 4ft x4ft x6ft and yields just over the kg mark every 2 month but it does come down to fine tuning ie strain feed etc but once there is well worth it Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
I don't want to sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet. But I have been hitting over 1gpw with mh/hps for a few years now and my SOG tent is yet to have a led my current challenge is the hygrohybrid 1lb per plant dry iv just flipped the girl over to 12/12 and with a total of 80+ tops hoping iv got it. My SOG tent is 4ft x4ft x6ft and yields just over the kg mark every 2 month but it does come down to fine tuning ie strain feed etc but once there is well worth it DS, So you know exactly what I'm talking about regarding the amount of time and care to details in order to achieve this kind of yield. I just want to be conservative on the figures, otherwise, we'd be doing a real disservice to the people who are just getting into growing by over encouraging them on how easy it is to obtain the 1g/w goal. Unfortunately reality is a different story because they would have to invest the time and resources it takes get to a level to even consider hitting that 1g/w mark. I also think there's an over emphasis around this figure when u know it takes a lot of time and experience to achieve. You would be consider a master grower with this kind of yield. You also have to consider the extra time it takes to veg. them per yield requirement. The quickest, and most efficient way to achieve this with led is a high-density, small size, little or no veg. time to minimize cycle frequency in order to maximize the number of cycles. This system could yield as much as 6 cycles/year at a potential of up to 1kg per m2 or approx. 3.5 x 3.5'. So technically this system could yield using Ice's scenario, as much as 3kg.(6lbs.), if all things were hunky-dorey. I don't like to talk or project numbers because of the many variance that would influence the final results, but it does make the topic more interesting..This would be an astounding yield by anyone's standard. Again, this kind of yield would take a lot of experience and management to make it a possible proposition. Congrats, bud. With that kind of yield, hat's off to u, Hail Mastergrower...
ok *gasp* let's do this. ice, you can reply to all this, you can do it... first of: thanks again! i know, i've written those words quite some times now, but you should know that everytime you share your advice i genuinely appreciate it! thx for pics, videos, links and pms, too. i'll try to answer everything. bro, this is exactly what i meant. why didn't you spit that out earlier? ;P though the most important question to me is the relation of your yield to your wattage: how many watts did you put into those plants to have them yield 24g each? (btw, if you guys switch to metric, i'm with you. i think for small units it's more precise anyway *duck*) and how many of those did you fit under your lights? MC: yeah, i know, i am a handful, once i got my mind set on something. the questions just keep spilling. i usually write my posts sober, so i get everything straight and don't end up with posts like yours ;P (hope you can take some friendly bashing ;P ), but after your joke with the roll of pennies i'm ...just a second...smoke one, toasting to you and the others here for their great advice! ok, here we go. 3 vs 5 watts for sog with minimum veg time: yeah i agree that you won't necessarily need 5w chips then. so far my mind is more or less set on the mars II unless some other proven model comes along offering better value for money. 1000w pure: what i meant is: if we assume i will someday get 1gpw, then i'm gonna need around 1000w for my goal of 1kg. rather a little more to achieve this goal earlier. now the question is: is it realistic to say that if i blast every level of 1m² with 500 watts that i will achieve this goal? height requirement: as the 5' level is not set in stone, i'm open to 4,4,3. just thought 5' might be good to play around with. sativas: i definitely do want to grow them lights: so option beh) seems to be the most efficient. how about tuning this option by taking 2* Mars II 700 per level and keep the potential mommies out of that closet. that would be 6 mars II 700. any idea what they would cost me? potential popcorn buds: don't mind them. dried, ground and smoked they are the same to me as fist-sized nuggets. autoflowers vs photo period strains: my thoughts exactly! 3 watters: do i understand you correctly that those do not run as hot as the 5 watters, thus allowing me to keep my ventilation "stupid simple"? (catching up on your "kiss" principle) how much ventilation volume would you recommend for this kind of closet? how much do you have? i understand that 1800 potential watts in 3*1m² is a lot. that is why i have no idea how much ventilation 5 watters or 3 watters respectively would need. vegging for a week and spectrum: i am not trying to do anything better than nature. i just think that the vegging phase is not necessary. thus i am taking one good aspect of nature (the flower period) and try to optimize this. the plant prefers red wavelengths during flower. why not stick to red, then? i see the sense in 6400 and 3700 but only(!) if you veg. now my question is: does any scientific data speak against taking reds only for flower only? if i did vegging, i'd be your man: 3700k all the way (in my humble opinion based on your previous info). i know what you are going to say: whites draw significantly more. yes, but they don't put out more red. and if i am not misinformed, then this is exactly what i want: as much red as possible (plus the UVBs ) vegging fora week: do you think it's possible to veg them with the redlights (no pun intended^^) simply running them at 18/6? if it's only for a week, the difference between a 1 week veg all white versus all red shouldn't be that big. thoughts? fixed lights: love it, had the same thought. no mothers: i will take this into consideration. might be a little too hardcore for me. what if i don't grow a strain for two grows and want it back? but i'll think about it. i'd still need a closing closet, tho. "achieve the 2lbs": stay in metric! once in metric, there is no turning back! yield: 20g from 1gallon pots: sounds nice, but how much light did you put into this? gpw? and: metric, dude hydro: not possible i thought about a possible "manual hydro" with plants in those grid pots i linked before with about ~4 liters standing in a small basin, i could water them twice a day, letting them stand a little in the water. the hydrokorrels would suck up as much water as they need. what do you think of this idea? another idea was to build flowerbeds out of such grids, thus using the available space more efficiently than with single pots while still using their airpruning function. do you think such grid pots / grid beds would work like smartpots? how much space do you think those small sog plants need? you say a minimum of 16, what would the maximum be?if i gave 1 liter per plant and squeezed them, i'd hypothetically fit 100 per level^^ grow medium: which grow medium would you suggest for this style of growing apart from hydro? (i am dieing to use hydro on this efficiency-beast of an idea ) DS:84 wet, 24 dry (this sounds so wrong^^): that is some weird shhh i never lose more than half of the weight drying 660 and 880: definitely let us know, plz! DS: 4*4*6=1kg, but how much light do you blast on this? thx again, guys! looking forward to your replies! toasting to you again, ice
DS: hail from me, too, dear mastergrower now comes the question of the day: is it possible to reach 1gpw without vegging time? because even if not, low-no veg time might still be more time-efficient as you described above. MC your last post hits the nail on the head. maximize the number of cycles! you could even go crazy and just take plants that flower in 45 days i'll leave the calculations to you. for me: i am not calculating with 1gpw. that's why i'd rather take 1300 than 1000w. also: i just want the highest efficiency on quality meds. i've never tried a 45 day plant but i guess they are out of the race, when it comes to quality (plz do correct me if i'm wrong). so let's just find a medium for my girls and in about 10 weeks i'll let you know what became of our my idea
Ice, yeah, i know, i am a handful, once i got my mind set on something. the questions just keep spilling. i usually write my posts sober, so i get everything straight and don't end up with posts like yours ;P (hope you can take some friendly bashing ;P ), but after your joke with the roll of pennies i'm ...just a second...smoke one, toasting to you and the others here for their great advice! Constructive criticism is always welcome and appreciated. Late night's the only time I'm free and relaxed because of my hectic day life. Like you, I tend to let my mind go when I get start on something, but again I'm usually heavily medicated during those times from all the body-wrecking activities when I was a little younger. ok, here we go. 3 vs 5 watts for sog with minimum veg time: yeah i agree that you won't necessarily need 5w chips then. so far my mind is more or less set on the mars II unless some other proven model comes along offering better value for money. 1000w pure: what i meant is: if we assume i will someday get 1gpw, then i'm gonna need around 1000w for my goal of 1kg. rather a little more to achieve this goal earlier. now the question is: is it realistic to say that if i blast every level of 1m² with 500 watts that i will achieve this goal? I can't say definitely because I haven't done it yet, but I will venture to say that you will have a hell of a shot doing so. I can tell u that when i accidentally experimented with the standard large plastic red/blue Wal-Mart cups got 7-8g with no tlc. We know we can get at least 7g x 80(per m2) = 560g x 3 levels = 1680g. for 3(m2) If u can pull this off with 500W will translate into better than 1g/w mark everyone strives for. All at very little resources such as soil, nutes, etc.. Regarding the the possible future wattage requirement per your yield increase in relation to your ability. The minimum amount of light required to produce optimal results should have no relation to the future increase in yield due to your ability. The reason being that if you are able to reach that magical 1g/w goal using say, 500w, then why would you need nor want to increase your wattage in relation to your yield. I thought this is call efficiency, one of the main selling point of leds. It could also go the other way if you found out it actually takes more wattage, which in turn will reduce that g/w numbers, accordingly. Problem is until we actually test and see how much power is needed, along with the many possible variance that might affect the final outcome. You will soon be able to answer this question for us. height requirement: as the 5' level is not set in stone, i'm open to 4,4,3. just thought 5' might be good to play around with. I second that. sativas: i definitely do want to grow them understood. lights: so option beh) seems to be the most efficient. how about tuning this option by taking 2* Mars II 700 per level and keep the potential mommies out of that closet. that would be 6 mars II 700. any idea what they would cost me? Contact Sara/LG. potential popcorn buds: don't mind them. dried, ground and smoked they are the same to me as fist-sized nuggets. Agreed. It's the thoughts that count. autoflowers vs photo period strains: my thoughts exactly! I still don't get the advantage because u can flip the photo's from seed and end up with bout same results with better traits and potency. 3 watters: do i understand you correctly that those do not run as hot as the 5 watters, thus allowing me to keep my ventilation "stupid simple"? (catching up on your "kiss" principle) how much ventilation volume would you recommend for this kind of closet? how much do you have? i understand that 1800 potential watts in 3*1m² is a lot. that is why i have no idea how much ventilation 5 watters or 3 watters respectively would need. Simplicity saves time and resources. I don't have to worry bout the girls' aroma here, so i just have a simple 12" desk-top fan mounted on top of my tent and it keeps my tent 6F over the ambient room temp. I rather not speculate on yours because I have no experience with the 5w and it's characteristics along with possible variance that would make it impossible for me to make an accurate recommendation. vegging for a week and spectrum: i am not trying to do anything better than nature. i just think that the vegging phase is not necessary. thus i am taking one good aspect of nature (the flower period) and try to optimize this. the plant prefers red wavelengths during flower. why not stick to red, then? i see the sense in 6400 and 3700 but only(!) if you veg. now my question is: does any scientific data speak against taking reds only for flower only? if i did vegging, i'd be your man: 3700k all the way (in my humble opinion based on your previous info). i know what you are going to say: whites draw significantly more. yes, but they don't put out more red. and if i am not misinformed, then this is exactly what i want: as much red as possible (plus the UVBs ) vegging fora week: do you think it's possible to veg them with the redlights (no pun intended^^) simply running them at 18/6? if it's only for a week, the difference between a 1 week veg all white versus all red shouldn't be that big. thoughts? Like I always said. There's always many options that would work, but some will always for better than others so it's up to us to find out the one that best fits our application. There's so much technical babble that we can get into but the end of the day is that most of the tech. these days will work pretty decent granted you invest a little time to be better informed. Regarding the reds, you will probably be just fine with a little more stretching, but not even worth thinking bout. I feel the warm whites should have enough reds to flower them but will have to wait and see. It's the closes to noon sunlight. Interesting to see the final results a few months later. fixed lights: love it, had the same thought. no mothers: i will take this into consideration. might be a little too hardcore for me. what if i don't grow a strain for two grows and want it back? but i'll think about it. i'd still need a closing closet, tho. Again for me. Simplicity is efficiency. "achieve the 2lbs": stay in metric! once in metric, there is no turning back! Tell the New and Old England that. yield: 20g from 1gallon pots: sounds nice, but how much light did you put into this? gpw? and: metric, dude 1 Blackdog 700-BU over the 4 x 4. I literally flip them only after a few days of veggn. them and ended 18-20" chopped. Approx. 450g/660w = .68gpw Organic soil with no commercial additives/nutes. hydro: not possible i thought about a possible "manual hydro" with plants in those grid pots i linked before with about ~4 liters standing in a small basin, i could water them twice a day, letting them stand a little in the water. the hydrokorrels would suck up as much water as they need. what do you think of this idea? another idea was to build flowerbeds out of such grids, thus using the available space more efficiently than with single pots while still using their airpruning function. do you think such grid pots / grid beds would work like smartpots? how much space do you think those small sog plants need? you say a minimum of 16, what would the maximum be?if i gave 1 liter per plant and squeezed them, i'd hypothetically fit 100 per level^^ Both of your ideas would work just fine or u can just modify your grow-bags into self-watering smart-pots using capillary action to keep them perfectly watered as they go along. grow medium: which grow medium would you suggest for this style of growing apart from hydro? (i am dieing to use hydro on this efficiency-beast of an idea ) Most of the reputable brand will be just fine these days because everyone u consult will have their .17cents bout it.