Subcool's Super Soil

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by MetalHead19, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. Very nice thread, thanks. Couple things, I am using Fafard line for soil. If the soil says it feeds up to four months then it would be very easy to over fertilize if adding nutrients,yes?
    I also never under stood the light only on top thing. I mean I know people like to focus on a giant cola but why not have lots of giant colas? It seems to me that if you do just top light the mid and lower canopy's never get the proper amount of light and the plant generates more leaves to get more light. So if you completely saturate the plant all around it would only make sense that it would be good all around. Now it is a major pain in the ass to get all the lights set up but hopefully it is worth it. I cant say anything because I would need to do a side by side comparison with the same strain. I will do so in the future and let you guys know how it goes.
     
  2. Side lighting works. It's just a waste if the lamps are much lower than the upper 1/2 of the plant, because much of the light will shine under the leaves (no chlorophyl absorption on leaf underside). However I have found T-5 lights on the side of cola's to be effective for increasing yield and bud density. I used a 8 tube 4' t-5 with mixed tubes on the side, and a 600 hps above them. the T-5 fixture hanging wires have adjustable bolts so you can fix it vertically or horizontally...
     
  3. Thats also part of the reason behind lst and scrog. So more light gets to areas it wouldn't normally reach. Same concept just different execution really. Side lighting does help though, I've done 4 bulb flors down both sides before and it definitely helped just not as much as I hoped. More than anything it really just kept the branches growing out instead of up through the canopy but even just that helped yields.
     

  4. What makes it lame? Lots of people find success with it (No, I'm not on his "PR team" as you called it). Try not to be so quick to judge, you alienate people when you do that. My next grow is going to be with Subcool's Supersoil, I am amending it further though. I am adding kelp meal, diatomaceous earth, glacial rock dust, and a larger amount of azomite (because in my opinion the amount subcool adds is so little it's pointless).
     
  5. It's such a great mix, but you're adding amendments.

    lol
     


  6. Subcool is not hard to find on the net. If I wanted info on his soil, I'd ask him. Here most of us have our own recipes and our own reasons for using them. So in that regard we are certainly not subcool's ditto heads, or whatever his followers call themselves. I/we honestly don't know why he came up with his recipe or what the thinking behind it is. AFAIK things like layering and spiking don't seem to be based on credible science. You'd have to ask him just what his ideas are based on. Like WD said continuing posting questions on his recipe on a site where he ain't gets old. To me it's like posting chevy questions on a ford site. So you might be further ahead to just post your recipe on this site and leave subcool's name out of it. Either that or do a subcool's search for any of the old threads.......MIW
     
  7. Hello Everyone, 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">This is a replacement Screen Name for MetalHead19.  Due to many life hang-ups I have not been able to grow at all, up until now that is. In that time I've been doing a lot of reading, the good the bad the ugly, most of the useful information seems to inevitably lead back to L</span><span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">umper, W</span>olverine,  J<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">erry, T</span><span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">richome F</span>iend and Chunk....funny. So while your all here....(hopefully)  
    \n
    I would like to say  that the reason I did not understand before (and now as well to a good degree) is because I never really went out of my way to excel in school and took it rather lackadaisically. This very thread inspired me to learn everything I can, I have a lot of fun doing it too. I cant tell you how many countless hours I've spent online reading, Id open one post read something, not understand a certain word so I<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">d open a new tab, read about that, then the same thing would happen. Eventually, Id have 30 tabs open  each containing a new understanding of the world and how it works. And then it dawned on me, I know nothing of geology, physics, chemistry, microbiology hell even botany for that matter, how am I supposed to grasp the understanding of soil let alone super soil? So I've decided to get better educated with a science major at a local college (when I can afford it haha ) . Thanks to the hard work and countless hours of research you guys and hundreds of other posters (and their sources) have done Ill be ahead of the game</span>. Thank You.   

    \n<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Now lets get to business:</span> 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Out of sheer embarrassment I wont post the first try at making a soil. I can say I got awesome growth but you can tell there are things that are out of whack. There are many things I did not consider on the last run.  Calcium to Mag ratios, NPK ratios ( I've read in other forums that this does not matter as much in organic soils),  cation and anion ratios, paramagnetic material</span>, and forms in which the nutrient is absorbed, Carbon to N Levels, Brix levels, chelation, rate of organic decomposition(availability)..   I'm trying to incorporate it all, Any suggestions or added insight would be awesome. ( I know you have given advice on a thousand soil recipes but I'm going insane and need help)

    <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
     

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Living soil: Diversity, Diversity Diversity.It is to my understanding that a soil will never reach its full potential or be considered a soil without rock dust (this also affects brix levels) microbes thrive on rock dust and with no microbes soil is nothing .</span>  

    I am not pushing brands I am just giving you an idea of what I'm working with. I am looking to use a soil that is a water only (sugar water too) soil, IF needed I can make small amendment mixes to top dress (similar to roots organics dry feed) 

    Base 

    50% Coco Coir: Nature's Footprint:  

    <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
    25% Rice Hulls: Organic Mechanic / Pumice: Black Gold 

    <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">25% Compost/ Castings: Coast of Maine Quoddy/Schoodic blend, Black Castings</span> 

    <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
    Bio Char: Soil Reef Pure Bio Char 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">( Is this an aeration or Compost addition?)</span> 

    \n<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Nutes:</span> 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Neem + Karanja: Neemsource</span>   

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Crab Meal: Neptunes harvest</span> 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Kelp Meal: Neptunes harvest</span> 

    Alfalfa Meal:  Down to earth 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Guano: Sunleaves</span>  

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Fish Bone Meal/Bone Meal: Down to earth/espoma</span> 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">From what I read Fish bone is available more immediate than regu</span>lar bone meal so a mix of both I figure , possibly more diverse bacteria 

    \nI'm going to assume that I need to mix equal proportions of each amendments by their N-P-K CA/MAG Availability?  

    \n<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Rock Dust Mix: (I know lumper used up to 4-5 cups of Glacial rock dust but from reading other posts its possibly interchangeable?) This mix is for Mineral Variety, to </span>add paramagnetic material to soil, boost chelation and soil energy. 

    \n<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Glacial Rock Dust: Gia Green</span>  

    Granite Dust: ( Granite cutting shop) 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Andesite:  Volcani</span>c Mineral Complex (High Paramagnetic Levels) 

    Zeolite: Clay<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;"> Clinoptilolite  silica and alumina tetrahedra, Can draw out heavy metals</span>  

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Azomite: Mineral Complex</span> 

    Green Sand: High K and other important minerals 

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Bentonite: aluminium phyllosilicate High cation exchange</span> 

    <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
     

    I wanted to add other things to the mix for greater diversity, Such as cotton seed meal, Soybean Meal, Feather Meal, Fish Meal, Coral Calcium.  The reason I didn't add these is either due to the stigma of them(by product of slaughter houses), the resourcing of them , and questionable quality or elemental inconsistencies. 

    \n <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">I feel this mix will work due to the variety of particulate sizes, texture and water exchange. The coco is light and airy and adding Pumice with Rice hulls will boost air penetration potential. The organic matter will add richness and diversity to an airy mix creating a high potential for microbial life and an abundance of mineral complexes for those microbes to feed on.</span>  

    \nMy concern Is the Balancing of Minerals, NPK ratios, PH,  

    \n<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">Coco is not as acidic as Sphagnum/Peat Moss so having the Bio char and Various Rocks complexes (along with the well water issue) could raise the PH to undesir</span>able levels. The bacteria can adjust their environment but will be unable to adjust if PH levels get too high. I guess I could add peat if I really had too.

    \n
    Mineral Balances.... I've begun to compile all the Chemical Analysis forms for each of these amendments.. I've got most of the information entered in Microsoft Excel<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;"> and short of taking all the numbers and adding them together to get the ratios I'm not sure what else to do...Honestly my head wants to explode. I've read that N-P-K in veg should be a 1-1-1 ratio and in flower a 1-3-2 or 1-2-3 depending on who your asking . It seems almost impossible to calculate C:N ratios and Calcium to N/P/K Mag....again head exploding.</span>  

    \n<span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">I have not listed any amounts because it seems that Lumpers go by is 1-3 cups of Nutrient mix per 1cuft. I think this might have been why my last run failed, I went by package application rates. For example on Neptune's harvest Kelp/Crab meal is states 2% of total volume which for 1 cuft is 3.59 cups more than Lumpers rates state (for one</span> amendment!).  

    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">This is also where the application rates get confusing for me. If the application rate is 2% of volume which is 23% calcium.. now to compensate for Lumpers amendment application rate we would have to reduce that amount. Would you have to add another amendment to get higher element ratios and stay within the 1-3 cups of amendment per 1cuft?</span> 

    \n
    Again this soil mixture is based on other soil mixes and my idea of understanding on how to create a biologically diverse soil. I'm looking for help, criticism, and anything beneficial.  I have not posted all the benefits of each amendment because I feel the person that would be responding to this would have an extensive understanding of these amendments.  

    \nI know this is a MAJOR brain dump ripe with grammatical errors but there are a lot of kinks in the hose and I need some resolve. I have no one to discuss these things with, so my knowledge base is what I can gather from online. I know I'm reviving a dead thread which is frowned upon but I feel I am not done with it. 
    <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
    All and any help will be greatly appreciated. <span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
     

    Thanks,<span style="margin:0px;"> </span>
    <span style="margin:0px;background-color:inherit;">JoT</span>  :smoke: 

    \n
     
  8. #128 sisterwilliam, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2015
     
    JoT, welcome back to growing...must feel good to be doing it again! I think you'll find some like minded folks in the No-Till Gardening thread. You've mentioned Lumper in your post...he still hangs out here under the name clackamas coot.
    Everyone on the No-Till thread is super knowledgeable and helpful and doing things in a similar way to your line of thinking...SW
     
    http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/1299862-no-till-gardening.html
     
  9. Where is the oyster shell powder in your mix?
     
  10. Between the lobster compost, crab meal, bone meals, trace amounts in the other amendments and rock dusts, I figured the calcium saturation was sufficient. Again, I am slightly concerned that my soil will lean towards alkaline due to lack of acidic amendments.
     
  11. Hi all,
    \nnew to the forum and just want to give a bit of background to where i'm coming from, I'll 'TRY' to keep it short. Been growing with canna coco & nutes(and all advised additives ££££££$$$$$) for years, initially with more than satisfactory results, but after a poorly conceived attempt at an indoor dwc hydro grow in my small tent, introduced powdery mildew(herpes for plants) into my room and mother plants. After struggling to control it for too long and spending way too much money in hydro shops, decided to kill all plants, disinfect, sulphur bomb, start totally from scratch with new genetics and a different approach to growing.
    I've always liked the idea of going organic and came across super soil. After watching 'you tube' and reading forums like this, it seems there are many recipes and ideas about this subject, all of which are probably good. My issue is that all the info available comes from US growers and all available products have different names and all weights and measures are different from the uk, I feel like I need a phd. The first recipe I saw and read was obviously subcools, as I believe that has been the best known for longest, and immediately began buying products regardless of quantities (Lbs, C.F's , Litres, gallons) before realising I couldn't find/recognise certain products, then read more and saw that subcools recipe isn't the be all and end all.
    \nTo summarise, I want to transplant 10 plants from 1.3 gallon(5L), to 6.6 gallon(25L) pots, I therefore need around 53 gallon(200L) of super soil. Like I said earlier, I've already bought and previously possess a variety of products which I'll list below.
    \n100L/26.5gal organic vegetable compost
    30L/8gal organic potting on compost
    25L/6.5 worm castings
    30L/8gal coco fibre
    10L/2.5gal perlite
    10L/2.5gal vermiculite
    fish, blood and bone meal 4-7-4
    bone meal 5.5-7.5-0
    organic seaweed enhanced growth stimulant 3.6-4.8-1.4
    superphosphate 0-17.5-0 (bought this on a whim, now don't think its organic and will leave out)
    humic acid
    potassium sulphate
    chelated trace elements
    epsom salts
    dolomite lime
    calcified seaweed
    Great White Mycorrhizae
    Plant Magic Granules granular innoculant made up of Mycorrhiza, bio-stimulants and over 20 strains of microorganisms.
    Q4 rootmore mycorrhizal fungi
    Seers volcanic rock dust ('azomite' is only available here via export from USA & flying mountains over oceans don't make sense to me)

     
    Any suggestions to quantities, additions or emissions would be gratefully received.

     
    [SIZE=medium]Note – The 3 most expensive products on that list are Humic acid, which I could only source from a hydro shop, and Great white Myco and Plant magic granules, which I bought from a hydro shop for previous grows. Those 3 products cost more than the rest of the list, which I bought from local or online garden suppliers. [/SIZE]
    \n[​IMG]
    \nThese sisters started healthy enough, but despite disinfecting, fan blowing, air changing, neem oil, bicarb and spraying with h2o2, still sucumbed to the dreaded mildew. this was the same tent as the ######## (add expletive) dwc attempt
     
  12. #132 BHamBudzNW, Jan 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2015
    Hey man.
    There really isn't an excuse for not understanding the U.S. measurements, that's what Google is for!! Just type in "(x) Gallons to liters" (or whatever your want converted) into the engine and POOF there's your conversion.

    That being said go to buildasoil.com and follow the ingredient list for the "living soil" they sell. Replace the rice hulls with lava rock and your set. Super easy mix with no ingredients that should be to hard to find.

    Bham





























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