Subcool's Super Soil

hope2toke

re: Calcium

Besides the Calcium sources I highlighted in Red, you also have Calcium from the Alfalfa Meal @ 17,200 ppm [cite]

The Crab meal comes in at 38% Elemental Calcium (Dolomite Lime is 22%). Kelp meal is a primary source of Calcium for livestock, pets and humans. The Neem meal contains 12% Elemental Calcium.

You'e f*cked 10 ways to Sunday. The potting soil will be so out of whack that you'll have any number of nutrient lock-outs.

But something else is really wrong with your mix or I'm missing something.

Your mix makes up about 25 gallons like you mentioned. To that you're going to add 57 cups of amendments? You're starting out with a soil that's 50% aeration amendments - is that what you're wanting and if so why is that? What do you feel will be gained by that high level?

Just curious.

Definitely reassess your Calcium levels - it's WAY too much. Seriously.

LD

 

Does it seem strange to anyone else, that folks would take sub cools recipe over to our forums here and ask for advice?

Why not just use the soil recipes here, since you're already asking for advice here anyways?

 

12 gallons pumice (complete mix of particle size's)
7 gallons peat (mix of 2 wet and 5 dry)
4 gallon "green bag" compost

here's how much I actually used:
crab - 11 cups
rock dust- 9.75 cups
neem cake- 5.25 cups
oyster flour -5.25
k-mag- .7
one meal- 2.25
- 4 cups
kelp- 4 cups

total about 25 gallons - around 3.5 cf

LD, i adjusted this to how much I actually used. approximately 35 cups to amend 25 gallons

I have not potted into this mix, but keeping in mind i am planting mature plants (can post pics), what should i add to te 50 gallon tupperware of my soil mix to get there? to dank dumb?

I have 4 bales of gardenre and bloome soil building compost i've not used (intended for out door), and I'm snowed in live near home depot but they havent plowed and it's a total mess out there as you can imagine (there are actually some recent youtube video's of cars aroud here in snow I know you'd find hilarious). like to get some red lava rock and EWc and throw it in, aong with some soft rock phosphate? other wise I don't know how else to get there. THX.

 

I can post pics of the plants if its help full

 

I second the motion that Lumperdawgs should write a book on various soil mixes based on product availability, vermicomposting, the whole gamet of organics, etc. The man has more organics knowledge in his pinky toe than most of us will ever have.

On to "Super Soil"- in spite of my personal feelings about the man's ego issues, I can say this in a completely objective manner from the viewpoint of a cannabis & vegetable gardener. WTF is the point of taking a store bought soil, making it into a sort of fertilizer, then diluting it again? Why not adjust the amendments properly from the start so that the mix can be used "as is" and evenly? Also, how does having a shitload of fertilizer in the bottom of a pot help a plant? Maybe if I ripped a railhead it would all start to make sense.
The whole layering deal just sounds like the upside down version of what so many did outdoors(and some still do) years ago. The idea was to have a weak fert(mushroom compost,horse,cow) tilled in deep along with your dolomite, and a hotter manure(chicken) in the top 3 inches. That way when you plant the starter rootball 6 inches deep in the weak mix, the feeder roots are below the "hot" stuff. As it rains and you water, it slowly trickle feeds from the top to where the plants can use it more efficiently.Does it make sense? Just turn a decades, possibly centuries old technique upside down, put it in a pot and call it your own.

 

I have used sub cools formula.....kinda. Sub cool has no potassium in his soil and there are other things he over does and doesn't do. Sub cool has good intent but, is by far not even close to the same league as LD. No where in sub cools soil is there any thing like kelp meal, bone fish meal, alfalfa, crabshell meal or any kinda meal. It's very basic and you can screw it up if it don't thermo compost properly. I would not recommend using sub cools formula..... I will do my best to write a better article on my experiences with sub cools soil.

 

el bumpo

I also havea large bag of cedar grove top soil. I am leaning towards adding a 30/30/30 mix of topsoil, G&B compost, and pumice, with 5 cups of bat guano. I know it's not processed but like i said I have reason to believe there are many young worms in the mix, and perhaps they will eat the composts.

I am also thinking about maybe adding 3 cups of rosemary leaf (fresh, that is recently frozen) to the mix, to help keep the worms fed.

I can drive out to the store but will lava rock and srp really make the difference?

well the garden and bloom compost is out of the question. it's amended with several forms of calcium. So i'm down to using cedar grove topsoil- it's an old bag. mix of compost from garden clippings and food waste, peat, coco husk, and sand. the bag says 100% organic. I guess it is organic then. All depends on your definition I suppose

the green bag compost is of kis. I just couldn't afford more. So going to add the topsoil and bat guano, and see how it goes.

thanks in advance for any input.

h2t

 

hope2toke

I'm going to answer your last post after I have some dinner - but in the meantime I wanted to give you a couple of links to give you an idea on how potting soils are configured in mainstream horticulture, i.e. mixes that actually work.

Please review the information at ATTRA site titled Potting Mixes for Certified Organic Production and the reason for sending you there is that AATRA is a group which helps farmers, horticulturists, etc. transition from Conventional thru Transitional and finally Certified Organic.

While you or I might find specific issues on some of their points, overall this is the level of skills one would have in their 3rd or 4th year of studies at Oregon State's Horticulture School which dates back over 120 years.

I believe that you (and others) will benefit from seeing how professional nurseries do things.

And please Dear God of all that is f*cking holy and pure, if some WPF drops in to comment that cannabis is a unique plant that defies all the laws of Botany, Biology, common sense - strike him or her with a bolt of lightening. See Zeus if you're out.

The other day I wasted my time answering a new poster about the soil mix that I use and wanted an explanation for why this or that material was selected.

Here's the mix that he inquired about:

• 50% organic Sphagnum Peat Moss (either Premier Peat or Alaska Peat brands)
• 25% aeration amendment (either Pumice, organic par-boiled rice hulls [PBRH is the acronym used by the rice processors] or lava rock. Or a combination. It doesn't matter - whatever I have laying around
• 25% vermicompost - homegrown variety

To each 1 c.f. of mixed potting soil add the following:

4 - 5 cups of Gaia Green Canadian Glacial Rock Dust

1.5 cups of the Dawg's Fix-It Mix which is simply equal amounts (by volume) of Kelp, Neem and Crab meals. Neem can be substituted with Karanja meal.

So like I said I completely and totally wasted my time answering his query as things turned out but I'll repost it here and see if you can find some value.

"We kinda know what we're doing out here in Orygun" - in spite of being 'over experted' as I've been challenged, too much science isn't good I guess.

"I'll be back" - Terminator Lumperdawgz

 

You're welcome!

 

Hey Buds!

Fun times, eh?

LOL

LD

 

dude, thanks. I would bring ya a cup of coffee to help you brace for this one question, but a friend recently told me that i can kill PM by spraying water and some cal mag foliar feed?

is it possible ? i know theres more in bottled cal mag besides the nutrient, maybe somehow that stuff kills pm?

 

Yeah, you can do that.

To get a fast track idea of some incredible soil mixes check this thread.

http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/951816-what-soil-recipes-do-you-guys-use.html

Imo, LumperDawgz mix on the first page is as good as it gets. However it takes a bit to source all of the materials and to mix all of the ingredients up. If you're not set up to do that, it sounds like you are not, you'll want something a bit simpler.

Chunk Daddy-O, MIW, and LD as well, excel at helping folks who are just getting into the organic game and need to keep it simple. I'm not knowledgeable enough to advise like they can at that level, but I can say a good organic bagged soil as a base is a solid start, then high quality earthworm castings, quickly followed by kelp, neem and crab meals. LD's mix at the link provided has proportions.

 

hope2toke

I'm assuming that you've reviewed the information at ATTRA on organic potting soils so that this post will make sense to you.

12 gallons Sphagnum Peat Moss
6 gallons Pumice
6 gallons Compost

That's a real world mix ratio. This gives you 24 gallons which is kinda like 3 c.f. so we'll use that to make the arithmetic easier.

To this total mix, add the following:

1.5 cups each of Kelp, Neem and Crab Meals

Rock Dust: Use the amount recommended for the specific material you're using. IOW, you can use higher amounts of glacial rock dust vs. volcanic sourced dusts as the debate goes in organic circles.

Your K-MAG levels are uber safe.

This mix is based on the quality of your compost. You've done a good job of sourcing quality materials so I'm sure you did your homework on this component.

Remember that top quality Sphagnum peat will give you a lot of aeration - you won't get that with straight Peat Moss.

On the use of Bone Meal - this is your call. I and other organic purists will not use either Blood or Bone meals. Part of that is for those organic farmers which produce plants that either are harvested or processed for distribution around the world under foreign organic standards, these amendments are a real deal killer.

I don't feel you need Bone meal which I assume is for its Phosphorus content. You have strong Phosphorus levels in the Crab, Neem and Kelp meals.

Your call.

HTH

LD

 

That's a new one for me! The only kernel of science that I could come up with is that some nurseries use Potassium or Sodium Bicarbonate to arrest PM and this is accomplished because these compounds dramatically alter the pH on the leaves.

This is the basis of products like Remedy (potassium bicarbonate), GreenCure (potassium bicarbonate), MilStop, KaliGreen and the list goes on and on.

You already have the best fungicides already - neem & kelp meals. Make a botanical tea with these 2 materials, add some liquid silica (Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt). Apply this every week through your veg cycle and into the flower cycle to the point where you're comfortable. I ain't gonna go there on this bomb.

As far as the Cal-Mag product(s) - donate them a circus or zoo so that it can be added to the douche water for breeding elephants.

HTH

LD