Follow the link that jerry posted. Unless you are referring to the "screaming eagle super premium mycorrhizae". That was purchased at the hydro store.
I was talking with LD yesterday about where BioAg sources their VAM from and this is what I found out . We all had talked about this a couple years ago but that short-term memory thing got in the way... Lol - anyhow... "It's a little complicated and here's the Reader's Digest version: Dr. Mike Amaranthus (MykoApply, et al.) (Mycorrhizal Applications) started out as a forest biologist with a focus on ectomycorrhizal strains - the species used by trees and some shrubs. He was widely published around the world for his work on reforestation projects. That's why he's based in Grants Pass, Oregon which is near the Oregon-California border = mountains = forests = trees. He began to harvest these fungi, packaged them and began to sell them to tree growers and others. Along the way though, he saw a market with the nursery industry in California (#1 in the USA) and Oregon (#2 in the USA). Most of these plants need endomycorrhizal fungi and in spite of articles that you can find from Cornell University and other published works, growing these is not an easy task and certainly not at a commercial level. Enter Premier Horticulture Labs in Montreal - the parent company of Pro-Mix and other products. They were involved in a study in Canada with the hemp industry and some of the research was funded by the Canadian government. After the research was finalized, they began to sell this one endomycorrhizal fungi - Glomus intraradices and it's this one that we need for pure annual plants. They sell this to a number of fertilizer packers including Dr. Mike's group of companies. BioAg buys the same strain but they buy it direct from Premier. There is absolutely no love lost between Dr. Mike and Dr. Faust at BioAg - LOL Here's another tidbit for you - all of the products you get hammered about at weed forums? Each and every one comes out of Dr. Mike's operation meaning that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between any of them and most of them in order to get as many 'things' listed on the label as possible have absolutely NOTHING to do with growing annuals. That is why when you look at BioAg VAM-Endo Mix you'll see only 7 strains - the only ones that matter to you and I. There's more to this story but suffice it to say that I would buy ANYTHING from Dr. Mike or any of the products that dot the landscape over there at Hydro Heaven which come out of his so-called 'lab' down south. BTW - because of the original licensing agreement between Dr. Mike and Concentrates, Advanced Nutrients has to buy Dr. Mike's mixes from Concentrates - I've seen the packages waiting to be picked-up by FedEx or UPS so this isn't an urban legend by any means. What I can buy for $15.00 at Concentrates is over $175.00 (MSRP) at a grow store with the AN logo and name on the product. Nice profit, eh? LMAO" LD So the deal is that BioAg buys their VAM from Premier Horticulture, ie: ProMix. J
Oregon & California customers can go here for VAM & Humic/Fulvic Acid products - http://www.bioag.com/oregonorderpage.html Other states go here - http://www.bioag.com/allotherstates.html Europe customers go here - http://health-solution.eu/website/index.php/nl-NL/ All we ask for in any of our products is to be offered the very highest quality at fair and reasonable prices right? J
I Emailed Bio ag just asking for some more info on there vam endo mix , humic and fulvic acids and they asked for my shipping address and I sent it to them , there an excellent company really good products and so far good customer service Im in Canada and I'm pretty sure Bio ag is located in Oregon ! That's some quality service lol Im excited to see what I get
Some nice fungi links sent from a friend - http://magazine.theascender.org/issue-4/fungus/ http://newsdesk.si.edu/releases/fungi-may-determine-future-soil-carbon http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12901.html http://grist.org/news/fungi-could-help-boost-crops-and-slow-global-warming/
There is no doubt that mycorrhizal fungi play an important role in plant growth. They help aggregate the soil which in turn provides plant roots with better access to water and oxygen. Their symbiotic relationship with plants helps them access water and nutrients. It is only natural that companies want to sell these fungi to you. Don't fall for it.
what do you mean? I know you don't have to add mycos but they are beneficial if you do. Twas Ever Thus!
EVERYONE PLEAE READ!!!!! This post is a line of b.s. used to sell products without Trichoderma. An industry insider making you think you need something by creating a fear. The study that MicrobeMan references says that trichoderma does not inhibit glomus, and in fact, glomus keeps tricho in check. MicrobeMan is stating an opinion.....not backed by anything other than profit motive, I bet. Here is a study that says endo plus tricho increases all measurable good traits: (search title in google) Influence of Inoculation with Endomycorrhizal Fungi and Trichoderma viride on Morphological and Physiological Growth Parameters of Rauwolfia serpentina. Indian Journal of Microbiology June 2012 Sunita Kaushish, Aditya Kumar, Ashok Aggarwal, & Vipin Parkash These studies are heady and difficult to read. MicrobeMan is using that to his advantage. To get the most information quickly, look at the graphs and charts. Sit down with a dab and try to decipher the article sometime. It is good brain exercise. This rumor of Trichoderma being bad has been spread through the industry, to the detriment of your gardens, and to the benefit of the product pusher's pocketbooks. :Informer420 pic: DeadHead OG in 3 Gal Pot
What are you trying to say here? a link or two would be nice since you came in here badmouthing a valued and highly respected member of our community. Twas Ever Thus!
I am saying that the studies say that Trichoderma and Endos make plants perform better when the two are used together. There are people that sell products that create rumors to make people think they need something special. I would like to see MicrobeMan's resume. :Informer420
Yeah, links to the study that you are referring to would be good... Not really sure as to WHICH species of Trichoderma or WHAT species of endomycorrhizal fungi were involved in the study relating to "Rauvolfia serpentina", but we're talking about cannabis here. Not same-same... And I'm not really sure where/how you determined that MM was trying to sell any kind of product. Maybe a microscope or a bomb ass compost tea brewer, but that's on his private website, not this thread. If you research "Trichoderma", you'll find that it's very easy to proliferate in a lab to sell to the public (which species?). And is generally included in very high concentrations. The symbiotic forms of mycorrhizal fungi that live with cannabis are Glomus intraradices, and G. mossaea (sp?). Once you've learned about the microbial world, you'll realize that quality compost and EWC provides the microbial species necessary to grow ANY plant successfully. No gimmicky inoculants necessary... as rizer has most readily pointed out. .
Here is a link to the study that indicates the combination of Ticho and Endo is best. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3386441 Regarding us "talking about cannabis here" and not Rauwolfia....well studies like this give us an idea of what might be occuring. It is up to the next group of scientists to take this information and test it on other plants in other conditions. I have not found any studies on myco/tricho and cannabis. I am reffering to studies done by professional research teams that use large sample sizes, control all variables, and use statistics to decipher results. As we get more legalized, these studies will become safer for University scientists to embark upon. Waktoo- are you saying I am right about MicobeMan being in the industry?....I determined that by smelling the bullshit in his post. Your idea that no microbial innocculants are necessary with good compost and ewc is a little shortsighted. If you are running a garden that turns your livelyhood, it is a good idea to stack the deck with specific microbial innoculants. Both objective science, and personal experience says so. My resume.....would confuse you. :Informer420
I really wish Tim was still posting around these parts, he could defend himself... Check out his website, there's some personal info on there that tells a little bit about him. http://www.microbeorganics.com/ It's been so long since I've read the first post, I had to go back and check it... I think you've misinterpreted what he was saying. "mycorrhizal" inoculates that have high amounts of trichoderma in relation to mycorrhizal spore counts are ripping the customer off, because spore counts that out of balance just result in the mycorrizae being overwhelmed and consumed by the trichoderma. Here's an example from a bottle of Great White "premium mycorrhizae" that's been sitting on my shelf for three years. I'm only including the myc' (symbiot to cannabis) and trich' species and respective spore counts. There's a lot of other microbial species contained in it too... Glomus intraradices - 13 spores per cc Glomus mosseae - 13 spores per cc Trichoderma konigii - 93,750 spores per cc Trichoderma harzianum - 93,750 spores per cc Those lil' suckers never had a chance! After reading the first post again, I can see where you thought he might be trying to pimp product. That's not the case. Tim is an avid organic farmer that lives in Canada somewhere. He's also VERY into microscopy. Amongst many things that he does, he tests all sorts of products being used in organic agriculture by looking at the microbial life they contain to see how viable they are. And I think that's what he was doing, saying that these were pure myc' products that were viable. I don't think he's actually involved (in a business sense) with these products. And I certainly don't think he's "anti" trichoderma. You have a point with the inoculant thing. TBO honest I still use a myc' inoculant with transplant from seed. But after that it's just compost and EWC. Most of us around here are not cash croppers. Don't forget that microbes are ubiquitous. They're everywhere. Plants have been attracting the mycorrhizal species symbiot to them for a lot longer than we've been freeze dryin' the poor little buggers and sealing them in plastic jars. Peace.
Thank you for your input. Others have already made the point but I'll make it again. If you go back and read what I actually wrote; "Another consideration if one is contemplating purchasing one of the myco-mixes on the market, is if it contains Trichoderma spores. Because Trichoderma is so much cheaper, the spore count for it in these mixes usually eclipses all the other organisms put together. Unlike endomycorrhizal fungi, Trichoderma requires no root contact to sprout and grow. In addition to this, its favorite food is…..wait for it…..wait for it….other fungi! So you guess what happens if you inoculate your roots with a mix that contains 10,000 spores per gram of Trichoderma and 100 spores per gram total of other fungal species which are slow to sprout. In my opinion, in most cases, "Yummy" says the Trichoderma as it gobbles down the few sprouting mycorrhizal spores. But, you say, "I get such incredible results when I use ‘Super Ecto Screaming Eagle Myco'. So there!" Well ya, Trichoderma is a great root/plant protector and there have been studies indicating that it enhances nutrient uptake. Remember the studies indicating it might take a long time for endomycorrhizal to effectively colonize roots? Maybe if you are doing a fast vegetation then kicking into flower Trichoderma is your answer. Maybe it is all that is working effectively in your Screaming Eagle stuff. Maybe it is incredibly cheap to buy elsewhere. The screaming Eagle people will tell you; Look! Trichoderma is ubiquitous in the soil and grows naturally in conjunction with mycorrhizal spores all over the world. At 10,000 to 100? Freeze dried? Hello." you will notice that 1/ I do state that this is my opinion, 2/ I do not say that Trichoderma is bad, quite the contrary I point out that it is likely the benefit which the grower is observing from a mix of freeze dried spores in which Trichoderma out numbers endomycorrhizal spores 10,000 to 1 or more. I use Trichoderma all the time. I am aware of studies illustrating that Trichoderma and endomycorrhizal fungi can be mutually beneficial but are these studies done using such ratios? I believe I have stated in this thread that there is data supporting this mutual benefit. If I did not, that is an oversite. In my updated version, on a new forum, I'm quite certain I made this clear; google "Logical Gardener Mycorrhizal Fungi" Perhaps you would care to support your accusation that I am an industry insider motivated by profit. I do not make any money from the sale of fungal spores, nor am I paid anything by anyone in the industry. My only endeavor is to try to give folks clear guidance within my obvious limitations. I am quite clear that I do not know everything and am always open to being corrected and educated. I do not post here anymore due to time constraints but someone brought your post to my attention and I thought I should at least make known that I did not say what you are declaring.