Ron Paul supporters, lets talk serious.

Now, before I begin, I would like to say, that I'm not trying to put Ron Paul supporters on blast. For I am, too, a Ron Paul supporter, for now.

I'm currently on vacation, and my older brother is with me too. He graduated(masters) in environmental management. In short, he's an environmentalist.
I'm will shortly be going into University soon, and hope to take study in political science/economics. Him graduating with a BA in political economics, he knows quite much and is knowledgeable in politics in general.

Yesterday he started to argue with me of how a)Ron Paul won't win the nomination and of how extreme Ron Paul is. With me paraphrasing last night, it went a bit like this.
"Ron Paul is too extreme. He wants to abolish the federal government, and abolish the EPA,CIA,etc. As me being an environmentalist, I see that as a huge problem. He wants to end the Fed. Reserve, that takes away the country's power to borrow, along with other important actions in the country's economics."
With me saying that Ron Paul wants to get rid of the EPA, and believes that tort laws will resolve pollution.
Him responding, "Who's going to ENFORCE TORT LAWS?"
He was trying to say that with Federal Gov gone, who is going to enforce a lot of the things in our country?

Look I can go on, but before you guys start debating about this, please know for a fact that my brother graduated from one the top schools in the country, and he does know what he is talking about, and knows more in depth of the political game. so he isn't saying this to say this without knowledge.

In all, how extreme is Ron Paul? If he does reduce Federal Gov. power, aren't there dangerous scenarios that can happen in the country? Hell even the newspapers, economic annalists are telling people that if we go back to the gold standard, things aren't gonna go well. Gold is quite rare these days, and how can we produce paper money on something that is limited in this world?

Following the constitution is very extreme.

Nice post. By all means respect your brother. Just remember though, he's biased and a direct product of our education system. These schools are manipulated by the wealthy to educate you only what they want you to know. They would never have a class about how we instigate a majority of the "terrorist attacks" with our greed filled war machine.

“I believe that property rights should be protected,” Paul stated. “Your right to be on tv is protected by property rights because somebody owns that station. I can’t walk into your station. so right of freedom of speech is protected by property. The right of your church is protected by property.”

I feel it would be a good thing, having him as president you would maybe start seeing state parks being privatized and not run by the federal government (You DO NOT need a GOVERNMENT to learn over your shoulder your entire life) .... (Many people think because he wants to "ELIMINATE" a "DEPARTMENT" That specific name that resides with said department, that it will send earth off it's axis and hurling towards the sun.....NOT GOING TO HAPPEN) .......

Bringing state parks back to a privatized system would bring the authority and power to an actual organization that would APPRECIATE the land, forest, and whatever Attraction is held there..

PAUL: Take a look at the state of Nevada. Do the people own the property in Nevada? No. Who’s the biggest landowner? It’s the federal government. I would like to see the development of this state the way that Texas had the privilege of developing. Before we went in the Union, it was owned entirely by private owners and it has developed all the natural resources, a very big state. So you can imagine how wonderful it would be if land will be or should be returned to the states and then for the best parts sold off to private owners.

His idea that property rights should be handled as; if you pollute on your neighbor it's a crime, you cannot pollute on your land, hardcore industrial pollution doesn't always sit in one spot, it moves, it seeps, it travels in the air, it travels in the water..


My neighbor down the street that works for Waste Management, he said it would help immensely. You wouldn't BELIEVE how many companies just dump waste.......like, you wouldn't, fucking, believe, how many companies pollute..you'd be mind boggled..



regarding Ron paul monetary policy, you should refer yourself to the "official tom woods appreciation thread" Tom woods endorses ron paul for president, and as a Austrian Economist he shares the same monetary beliefs/monetary and market structure beliefs..understanding a basic knowledge of Austrian Economics helps you understand what DR Paul wants to do with all of this enormous spending and debt that's going to rule the rest of our lives, listening to "How bad the debt is" till I'm on a hospital death bed watching the news channel about how we're in some war we don't need to be in, or what have you...Shit NEEDS to fuckin' go

Here is a video of Tom Woods (CRUSHING); probably answering your questions - lol

[ame][/ame]

Edited by tflga, 31 December 2011 - 05:33 PM.

The states will enforce the laws that THEY lay down.

The govt is suppose to be a safety net to the states not our supreme leader.

He wants to abolish the federal government,

if he wanted to abolish the federal government, then what is he running for president of?

Just the fact that he said Paul wants to abolish the federal government, shows me that he really doesn't know what he's talking about, despite his fancy schooling.

He was trying to say that with Federal Gov gone, who is going to enforce a lot of the things in our country?

again.. the federal government will not be gone..

where does this guy get his info?

again.. the federal government will not be gone..

where does this guy get his info?

The common consensus, a lot of people hear "HE WANTS TO ABOLISH THE DOE", Says the Mainstream Media.. I love how maniacal they can make people by using Tone of Voice and certain words that are triggers for most viewers...

They hear the name "Department of EDUCATION" - Then the action "ABOLISH" - They then think WELL WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES? what will we do...we can't vote for this guy..



When in fact it's kinda the opposite

I don't even respect economists who have PHDs, so your brother's BA degree means even less. Not disrespecting your brother, just pointing out how having a degree in anything related to economics, or economics directly, doesn't mean you know anything. The reason is there are many schools of thought in the economics world, and the mainstream that is taught in schools is wrong. No matter how much education one can amass on a wrong idea, it's still wrong.

As far as your brother's questions go. Ron Paul doesn't want to eliminate the federal government, or federal courts. Actually he may want that, but he has never publicly stated such, and he damn sure would never be able to shrink the Federal government until it was completely gone. That's just a strawman argument against Ron Paul, it has no basis in reality. There will still be plenty of courts to enforce laws under a Ron Paul presidency. Some of the cases that would have previously been handled under Federal courts, will likely be handled under Ron Paul under state courts instead, but law enforcement is law enforcement right? The only time pollution would be a Federal thing is if it crossed state borders. Say Ohio polluted the Ohio River and the pollution spread into Kentucky, that could be a case where Ron Paul would agree is under the Federal courts jurisdiction and not the states since the problem crosses state lines.

As far as the gold standard, there are some persistent myths that seem to be constantly recycled in the media and in academic circles. Gold isn't rare "these days", it's rare sure, but it's not anymore rare than gold supply in the past, other than the population of the earth has increased so there is less per person, but almost all gold ever mined in history still exists. The above ground amount of gold is probably higher now than it ever was in the past. None of that matters though. The amount of gold that exists doesn't matter, the amount of Dollars that exists doesn't matter. A gold standard can exist perfectly fine today, with no problems. Gold detractors say that there isn't enough gold to represent all the money that exists. That's simply wrong. That would only be true at gold's current price. If a gold standard were implemented the price of gold would have to be much higher in order to account for all the Dollars that exist. The exact price depends on many variables, like what percentage of gold will they actually back the dollar with . If they back the Dollar with 25% gold, that would require a much lower gold price than if they backed the Dollar 100% with gold. In either case gold can account for any amount of man made dollars as long as the price is correct. Pricing gold too cheap would result in deflation, which is really the only argument I ever hear against the gold standard that makes some kind of sense, but that's a total non issue since Ron Paul would never price gold too cheaply. He would use some method to let the market determine the correct price.

Now with all that being said, Ron Paul won't just return to a gold standard overnight. He actually doesn't have any plans in that direction that are yet public. His only plan so far is for competing currencies. Of course this is a transitional step towards the gold standard, but so far it's all he has actually said he wants to do immediately. Allowing competing currencies will naturally result in commodity based money, a gold standard certainly, and a bimetallic standard is likely (silver and gold both).

As far as the Fed goes. They serve no good, useful, or necessary actions in the economy at all, nothing. It's truly amazing to me that the bankers have convinced the world that they are vital and we need central banks. The only people who benefit from central banks, are the central bankers themselves. They profit immensely, and always at the expense of the people of those nations.

I suggest you read liberty defined, seriously. Its one of the most common sense books I've ever read and it goes over 50 of his stances of which are awesome. The austrian economics chapter, bipartisanship chapter, democracy, prohibition, assassination , and empire chapters are amazing.

You both will most likely be paul supporters afterwards.
[ame]http://www.amazon.co...rce-full-site=1[/ame]

Edited by Shipwreck, 31 December 2011 - 05:56 PM.

^ Amen.

Ninja'd.

Go up one post.

.....In all, how extreme is Ron Paul?....

Judging from some of the things on his own website, Campaign For Liberty, with topics such as Satanic World Banking, I'd say he's out there:

Campaign For Liberty

When Ron Paul mentions anything about 'shrinking', 'limiting', or 'abolishing' the Federal Government, it is not a cataclysmic event that will utterly change every waking moment of your life. It will be a slow and brutal process of partisan and bipartisan arguing (just think of the recent 'Debt Crisis'). Ron Paul's ideas are not some new revelation, they are the ideals of our Founding Fathers put into the Constitution. So don't freak out and ask ridiculous 'what-if' questions that are in a sense counter productive. It's going to be a hard, slow process of limiting and shrinking the Federal Government but it can be done and the ideas and leadership of Ron Paul can, in my opinion, get it done.

Judging from some of the things on his own website, Campaign For Liberty, I'd say he's out there.

Campaign For Liberty

Yup.

But we need some extreme changes.

Judging from some of the things on his own website, Campaign For Liberty, with topics such as Satanic World Banking, I'd say he's out there:

Campaign For Liberty

Campaign for Liberty is a 501©4 lobbying organization which neither supports nor opposes candidates for public office and claims no responsibility for the actions of individuals or groups of individuals who use the Campaign for Liberty logo or name or who may claim to act as representatives of the Campaign for Liberty without prior written consent of the Campaign for Liberty

Campaign for Liberty is a 501©4 lobbying organization which neither supports nor opposes candidates for public office and claims no responsibility for the actions of individuals or groups of individuals who use the Campaign for Liberty logo or name or who may claim to act as representatives of the Campaign for Liberty without prior written consent of the Campaign for Liberty

That's the biggest problem with this man - he refuses to take responsibility, whether it's racist newsletters from his campaign office, his associtaion with the John Birch Society and similar organizations, insane Satanic Banking conspiracy theories on the website that he started with leftover funds from his 2008 campaign, and other issues.

He can't keep denying his role in things that he's clearly supposed to be in charge of, and expect to become the president of the United Stated of America - maybe an 18 year old kid would act this way, but not a grown man.

That's the biggest problem with this man - he refuses to take responsibility, whether it's racist newsletters from his campaign office or the website that he started with leftover funds from his 2008 campaign.

He can't keep denying his role in things that he's clearly supposed to be in charge of, and expect to become the president of the United Stated of America - maybe an 18 year old kid would act this way, but not a grown man.

LOL

It's a good sign when all people can throw at Ron Paul is a newsletter and internet blog, both written by other people without his knowledge. And this is his "biggest" problem. Hells yeah!

Ron Paul 2012!

You will be bombarded by the RP's (of which you are a junior member) with statements like
"follow the constitution".
They forget that there are college level classes and degrees in constitutional law, so cut and dried and black and white, the constitution is not!
But the RP faithful always see it as the solution (xmaspoo)

Anyone who disagrees with the RP faithful are also called a troll or bias, like your brother!

Nice post. By all means respect your brother.

except that now he is going to tell you your brother is a brainwashed member of the "establishment"

Just remember though, he's biased and a direct product of our education system. These schools are manipulated by the wealthy to educate you only what they want you to know.

like this statement! Here they like to blame the education system as a massive brainwashing machine. They see conspiracy under every bush.
Nope, no free thinking people coming out of the universities!
all those banned books and restricted internet access (oh wait that's china)

That's why we had occupy protests going on across the country at many universities and institutions of higher learning. All brainwashed to accept the status quo!
How do you take someone seriously when they want you to believe
"schools are manipulated by the wealthy to educate you only what they want you to know". This is a foil hat conspiracy RP's like to state as fact!
No one except a RP faithful knows what is right and wrong, in their shallow view of our country!

They would never have a class about how we instigate a majority of the "terrorist attacks" with our greed filled war machine.

This poster has apparently not been to a university. This topic is covered in thousands of classes by thousands of professors who agree, like I do (liberal & with your brother in belief) that we should NOT be going around the planet policing countries.
liberals are the peaceful ones!
I am sure there are professors also saying the exact opposite, different ideas is what a university is about! brainwashing, not so much.

Yes we do have an out of control war machine and that machine OWNS the GOP.

RP or not, if the GOP control congress, the military industrial complex will continue unchecked.
FDA and EPA and dozens of other regulatory agencies will be gutted and the Corporations will do what they do best, rob the public.

That's the biggest problem with this man - he refuses to take responsibility, whether it's racist newsletters from his campaign office, his associtaion with the John Birch Society and similar organizations, insane Satanic Banking conspiracy theories on the website that he started with leftover funds from his 2008 campaign, and other issues.

He can't keep denying his role in things that he's clearly supposed to be in charge of, and expect to become the president of the United Stated of America - maybe an 18 year old kid would act this way, but not a grown man.

foolish

Our education system IS fucked up lol

You know who releases the cirriculum books and proof reads them?

Lawyers.