Vermicompost or worm castings; Is there a difference?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Microbeman, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. #1 Microbeman, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011
    Vermicompost or worm castings; Is there a difference? I often hear people saying that they prefer to get worm castings to vermicompost. There seems to be a general impression that ‘pure castings’ are superior to vermicompost but this may not necessarily be so. But really lets try to figure out what the difference is.

    Some say that the term vermicompost is used more in scientific papers/studies to delineate worm castings (and this seems accurate). [attached PDFs – Edwards]
    Also the term changes dependent on which government agency the worm farmer must deal with.
    http://books.google.ca/books?id=_JJ5Cw5BBxEC&pg=PA374&lpg=PA374&dq=castings+and+vermicompost+clive+edwards&source=bl&ots=gR2UH9DMm4&sig=OBJks4WNU_7rowkjESpiPWSto0M&hl=en&ei=9wrlTon4LOKRiALZuMSnBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=castings%20and%20vermicompost%20clive%20edwards&f=false

    Of course the commercial worm castings producers will have you believe that the term ‘vermicompost’ means that there is all kinds of ‘who knows what’ undigested organic matter in there and some will tell you the castings must be black to be real pure,
    https://www.vermitechnology.com/index.php?show_aux_page=5
    http://www.monroeworks.com/articles/worm-castings-compared-to-vermicompost.htm

    This producer maintains that castings take up to a year to produce, while their vermicompost finished in 60 days is superior because the material is pre-composted in their aerobic composter. At least that is what I think they are saying.
    http://www.sonomavalleyworms.com/products.php

    This view supports ‘the vermicompost is unfinished hypothesis.’
    http://www.ehow.com/about_6519484_worm-castings-definition.html

    I could have sworn I read something by Clive Edwards stating that the difference in his view was that vermicompost consisted of some undigested materials but damned if I can find it. Of course the attached PDFs written by him do not support this view.
    Now, for my take. Ha ha! It depends. I use the term vermicompost for my worm digested material partially because it is the term used scientifically but mostly because I do not wish to have my ‘stuff’ equated with the commercial ‘coffee grounds looking’ castings generally seen on the market. These appear like, well they are [mostly], little individual worm turds. They range in color from black to beige {believe it or not} From my experience on the ground watching worm castings being grown & harvested at two ‘large’ commercial operations (I know it could be more), I have gathered that to get those individual little turds one must [usually] have the larger breeds of worms (European & African). Because red wrigglers are small, they have tiny turds and because the reds like it wetter, their turds stick together and look like lumps or (OMG) soil.

    Anyway, at the one commercial outfit that pumped out the organic certified castings going to all the ‘repackagers’ in the USA [They are in Canada], they had to keep their worms pretty dry in order to harvest the pretty ‘100% pure’ castings in demand. This magnificent product was achieved by feeding/bedding the worms in locally harvested peat and feeding certified wheat. That’s it. That is all that OMNI, Washington State and Oregon [I think] would allow at the time. The whole process beginning of bed to harvest was usually 60 days. Oh boy! Pure 100% castings.

    The other place (in USA) using red wrigglers kept them in windrows for 6 months and mixed with thermophilic compost….a much more quality and honest product (at the time).

    Okay back to my vermicompost. I use two methods. One is piles at 3 to 4 feet deep in an open covered shed. We feed horse manure, wood shavings, sphagnum peat moss, alfalfa meal and wheat bran. The piles are kept wet/moist with sprinklers, occasionally sprayed with diluted molasses and are turned at halfway through (4 to 6 months). This is digested over a period of 9 to 12 months and is evaluated as to when it is finished by its appearance (eye, nose & scope). It is not screened as it does not need it [but the odd rock is tossed] and it is full of fungi. The final product looks like earth. [presently about 60 yards and 4 tons of worms(?)]

    The other method is in plastic bins which are fed no manure; just sphagnum peat moss, wheat bran and kitchen scraps. I starve those worms, feeding them every two weeks. I keep them disgustingly wet and always forget to mix up the bedding to allow air in. I harvest about every 6 to 8 months. This is the shit man. Yucky gooey gel-like brown/black humus. Occasionally the deepest corners have had a slight bad odor but that disappears rapidly when exposed to air. This is the stuff I use fresh to make ACT. This is the stuff big shot composters/marketers drooled over at the Seattle Garden Show.

    So the moral of the story is. It depends….haha! One man’s term for rubbish is another’s gold. Don't turn your nose up just because it is called vermicompost or it does not look like 'all little turds up in there.'


    EDIT: OOPS. I did not attach the PDFS. Lemme see if I can do it in another post
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Here are the two pdfs I meant to attach to my first post.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Whoa! :) That's a lot of research you're sharing with us, thanks so much!!! :D :hello:

    Also nice to hear what your thoughts are. I've been looking for more, concise information on vermicompost harvesting. I should have some soon (one tray from a 5 tiered wood stack), next few days.

    It'll be my first harvest! Joints for everyone!!! :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

    Personally I like the sounds of your vermi slime mix. I'll probably be getting something like that.
     
  4. your second bin is how i have mine. peat moss, coco, oak leaves, and alfalfa meal. i drink alot of tea, and i toss all the leftover tea leaves in there (i only drink loose leaf tea). no kitchen scraps, although i have been throwing in alot of kale latley that has was left over in my mothers garden.

    keep it moist, turn it every 4 days or so...yep the good shit :smoke:

    -OSUB
     
  5. I definetly have unfinished matter mixed in when I run the material from my worm bins through the castings harvester. I have absolutely no issue with this.

    I used this 'vermicompost" recently in an AACT that I was brewing, gave it to my vegging plants, went away for a couple of days and when I came back home several days later, I was speechless with the incredibly healthy fresh new, thick, vibrant growth that I saw.

    Crazy stuff. My thoughts are that the "vermicompost" may have a more diverse variety of beneficial microbes in it than straight earthworm castings.

    Then again, I'm probably talking out of my ass.

    The bottom line, though, is that the results (which mean everything, right) - were amazing.

    jerry.
     
  6. Well, so far, I like using the fresh vermicompost for ACT over aged stuff but I don't know if aged may have advantages as a soil mix ingredient.
     
  7. I usually just buy a bag of ewc but I really really want to farm it.
     
  8. #8 WeeDroid, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2011
    LD seems to think that ewc's need to be cured in order to help break down more and to allow some fungal growth?

    ~goes to see if he can find that post~

    Found it.

    Then there is this:

    How to Cure Vermicompost | eHow.com

     

  9. If you can buy high quality ewc local, it might not be worth it, unless your into these things. But if your like me there is no good local source, and while a simple bin style worm bin, might not be the very best, but it does provide for quality ewc for teas at the least, if your lucky maybe a little soil addtion too......MIW
     
  10. I like farming my own ewc's as I would like to be as close to a Biodynamic Farm (in an urban setting) modality as possible.
     
  11. Take the money you are going to spend on your next bag of commercial castings and buy a six-pack of beer and a rubbermaid bin . In the time it takes to drink the beer you can get your bin set up and primed for a pound or two of worms.

    Seriously
     
  12. [quote name='"jerry111165"']

    Then again, I'm probably talking out of my ass.

    The bottom line, though, is that the results (which mean everything, right) - were amazing.

    jerry.[/quote]

    from my reading on here you talking out your ass still provides better info than some people's post I read. Lol
     
  13. Dr. Edwards is an Entomologist with 60 years of study under his belt. His books which include the following are standard tomes for graduate studies:

    Vermiculture Technology: Earthworms, Organic Wastes, and Environmental Management - deals with vermiculture in general (obviously) as well as delving into the various species generally used

    Environmental Monitoring of Bacteria (Methods in Biotechnology) - I'm just starting reading this book

    Earthworm Ecology - only deals with true earthworms

    LD
     
  14. I could just buy em, but I wanna build a little farm for em just cuz I like doing all things gardening..i figure my son would love em too..he used to have a worm he called snakey the worm so I can tell him its snakey kids and hed love it..he loves helping me so this would be a cool project.
     

  15. Are we talking nightcrawlers? Or is there a different type of worm..i thought my cousin mentioned some red worm
     
  16. Nightcrawlers = Earthworms

    With the exception of the popular European Nightcrawlers, African Nightcrawlers and a couple of others who were given inaccurate names.

    With the possible exception of the African Nightcrawlers - it is claimed (not by me but by some who sell this species) that they can be used as an earthworm in raised beds.

    Again that's their claim and certainly not mine. I simply don't know.

    HTH

    LD
     
  17. http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/334921-vermicomposting-make-your-own-worm-castings.html
    Um Num...try this link, read the info you find there and see if it's something you want to undertake.

    Sam
     
  18. Weedroid, I can state that I never have any shortage of fungi in my fresh vermicompost. I have no idea on the increased N thing with aging.

    As stated, I've seen a dormancy of microbes through aging.
     
  19. Yes, he and Kelly Slocum know lots about worms but like everyone [including me] read with open mind and logical filter.
     

  20. Do you get winter freezes where your at? If so how does the freeze/thaw cycle work on the little ones? I know they wake up, everyone in the north knows that, but are there implications using our composts through winter? MIW
     

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