2nd time on edibles

sup grasscity,

i went to the dr. yesterday after being sick since sunday. Turns out i have walking pneumonia/acute bronchitis... so i cant smoke for a while cuase im guessing the irritation could really set me back and progress to full blown pneumonia (at the very least prolong the healing).

i have made firecrackers before and nothing happened, however my friend (who had a higher tolerance at the time) was pretty fucked up off of his; we made them exactly the same.

so today i made some weed tea, just downed it at 12:51 eastern standard time. ill be keeping this thread updated for my own research purposes feel free to post your tips on edibles or comments

if nothing happens then i'll probably delete the thread

Edited by freshlyground, 09 December 2011 - 06:24 PM.

UPDATE: 1:21 eastern time

been exactly 30 minutes, feel 100% sober, but i just burped and it tasted like weed haha

edibles sometimes just dont work for some people. i know for me no matter what edible i try i wont get more than a buzz. everyone digests THC in a slightly different way and some people just dont take to it.

yea i've heard that too, i hope im not one of those people though cause edibles really interest me when smoking is not an option or im trying to get crazy high..

UPDATE: 1:55 eastern time

Been an hour and four minutes, still sober. i have kinda given up but ive heard of people taking 130 - 2 hrs to kick in so im still waiting.

munching on a tuna melt right now, not high but still delicous

I know the first time I got really high it was off of brownies. It's was really got me to start smoking. Edibles can get you just as high as smoking. But you never know if something goes wrong. Like what was said before, your body may process it differently, or something in the preparation of the edibles may have gone wrong. I've made stuff before that just seemed not to do anything much. Good luck, I hope it works for you. Maybe try some different techniques at making edibles.

well its 2:30 and this will be my final update:

UPDATE: 2:31 eastern time

its been exactly 1:30 hours and i have felt zero effects, so im taking this one down as a loss.
but im definitly still going to keep expirementing with edibles, im just hoping that i fucked up in making the tea and that im not someone who doesnt take to edibles. but i do kinda feel that way becuase of the firecrakcer expireince where my friend said he was at a 10/10 high where i was at about a 5/10 from a few bowls/joint we had before but i could tell that my high was not influenced by the cracker

good luck man. i hope your not one of those people.

Well weed is fat soluble so you should be making weed butter and then using that for whatever, youll get high

Cannabis glandular material isn't considered water soluble

The terpenes are responsible for the odor you noticed, and their odor-presence has nothing to do with whether or not an edible will work!



Try the search feature next time so you can see what tea's require in order to be effective.. and that's processing your herb with pure oil, first, before whisking into a pre-brewed cup of your favorite tea.

Here's a post from just yesterday on the topic... in the future, it is a good idea to do just a minute or two of research, before wasting your herb on a recipe that simply is not effective.


From yesterday....

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The above is going to be me, if we get ONE more tea question in here


You guys are just doing this to mess with me.. aren't you.

You've seen the impending explosion coming, and now you're thinking, "Hey, this could be entertaining!"

------------


We have a search feature here, and we still see tea questions nearly every day... you should use the search feature, to see that they do not work. They still do not work very well, even when butter or oil is added to the water.

Look up cannabis absorption and bioavailability, to see why.

It needs to be broken down with an edible solvent, and cannabis is not considered water soluble.

I am not trying to be or sound snippety

I am trying to be concise and brief, with something I have had to repeat almost daily, since the moment I arrived at GC!


Cannabis also needs to be activated first;

Decarboxylation is the process of removing the carboxyl group in the form of carbon dioxide, and water vapor;

This causes cannabinoid conversion from their inactive acids, to their more potent delta forms;

This happens when we smoke or vape and must happen prior to making an edible;

Submerged in water, that amounts to trying to somehow boil all the moisture out of a potato, within a reasonable amount of time.



Edible cannabis has the potential to be much more powerful, than smoking the same amount... but only with the correct processing.

This is why we have so much dosage discrepancy, so many failed edible stories, and the all-to-common assumption that smoking is more efficient, which it is not, unless you simply do not have the time or the ability to make a proper edible, in which case you should stick with smoking, if conserving herb is important to you.


Cut corners when making edible, or drinkable cannabis, and your edible will either not work at all, almost regardless how much material you use, or you will need to literally multiply your required dose by 2, 3 or even 10 times or more, depending on just how poorly it was processed... and again, that's if it even works at all.




Rather than copy-pasting the same info for tea every day, from now on I'm just going to copy paste the above comments and head-explosion, and use links.



But just for fun, here's what I said just yesterday, which is still on page one here in the edible section, because less than 24hrs ago was the last time this came up


Making ganja tea (need help)

----------------



This comes up at least a few times a week... sometimes, even a few times a day.

Mary Jane in Tea?

Canna-Tea [Easy Guide]

Pot Tea


In this case, your proposed 'edible solvent' is butter.

A diluted solvent is very ineffective compared to one that is more concentrated, or pure. In any given amount of time, you will promote much more bioavailability (more potency available to your body) in a pure edible solvent, compared to one that is very diluted.


Making oil is just as easy as making your tea, and especially if you only have a little time to spare to make your edible, you need to be sure you're using the best materials possible, to compensate for your brief processing.

If you are truly compelled to make a tea, use whatever time you have as wisely as possible, and process your herb in pure, clarified butter first, before straining and adding to to your pre-brewed tea... why do we clarify butter? The little water it contains, soaked into the herb, can add hours to the total gentle process, before the glandular material has fully broken down It also pulls in loads of inert plant matter, such as chlorophyll, bitter salts, plant waxes... all the things that don't contribute to potency, and cause a canna butter to taste (to most people) like over-boiled vegetation or brussel sprouts.


More details below (regarding the use of both high-fat cream, as well as butter in water).



"Teas made this way (with milk or cream, or butter-water), have widely been for a long, long time, one of the very most disappointing edible/drinkables, because when you get right down to it, the old fashioned water-butter methods of making canna butter (and even waterless methods for making canna butter, using unclarified butter), are considered very outdated and ineffective.


So if pure milk fat, or butter mixed with a bit of water is ineffective, just imagine how much potency you miss out on, by processing in an impure oil source such as cream.



The oil in this case is your edible solvent, and cannabis glandular material is not considered water soluble. When your solvent has so much water contamination, it drastically reduces its efficiency, as a solvent.

It's why the water-butters of the old days required between 15 - 24 hours of heating for the best effect... Your milky-tea made this way, will too.


When working with inferior ingredients, you need to compensate for the loss in potency, by multiplying the amount of material you use. However much material you need to feel satisfactory just one time, when processing improperly, that same amount of material may have provided you several, stronger, more powerful doses, with the correct processing. Consuming partially raw or under-processed canna, requires much more material to do the job effectively.


So do yourself a favor, and if you are compelled to make a 'tea', just use clarified milk fat first (ie, clarified butter), make a small, but MUCH more potent portion of oil, then just whisk it into some warm milk that has either been pre-brewed with your favorite tea, or blended with your favorite hot cocoa.

You'll have much better, longer-lasting and stronger effects with the same amount of time and effort, when processing in a more pure solvent, than you can have by processing in a solution that can barely break down glandular material in under a days time.


Of course, making a small portion of oil leaves you with a few more options, as well...

(A spoon of cocoa, a spoon and a half of powdered sugar, a few drops of milk and your oil, and you have some good, quick canna truffles... )













Good luck, and Happy Turkey day


PS - and if you're going to do it, avoid the tea bags... They only hinder the process, they keep the material packed together too tightly, and they don't allow for nearly the level of exposure to oil that 'loose leaf' cannabis can allow. Just strain out and discard the excess material after the fact, and you're golden. " - BKS (in 'Pot Tea thread')


PPS - Don't forget to decarb/activate your material.. especially if you wind up going with the milky tea/cocoa. Decarboxylation is the process of removing the carboxyl group in the form of carbon dioxide and water vapor, this is only easily done in a dry environment, or in oil (similar to a potato, becoming a chip) but it can't be done in even close to a reasonable amount of time, or before the cannabinoids degrade, when submerged in water.

Check the CannaPharm Sticky for more details (length of time, temperature etc.) on activation, and processing your butter/oil. "


Good luck, and have fun!

Edited by BadKittySmiles, 10 December 2011 - 12:30 AM.

@Bad Kitty

I actually have read through all of those threads you posted and your contributions to each were heavily noted. however i read so many sucsess stories on here and from two friends of getting results from weed tea (using the butter technique) that i decided to try it today as thats all my current house conditions could allow.

seeing as you seem extremely knowledgable in this field, is it possible that a person could be unaffected by all edibles? and if not then what might be the reason that my previous experiences provided no effect (this was the firecrackers i mentioned in the OP)?

and i am going to be trying the oil edible as my final test as it seems to have about 99% succsess rate and very little room for cooking error.

thanks, freshlyground

@Bad Kitty

I actually have read through all of those threads you posted and your contributions to each were heavily noted. however i read so many sucsess stories on here and from two friends of getting results from weed tea (using the butter technique) that i decided to try it today as thats all my current house conditions could allow.

seeing as you seem extremely knowledgable in this field, is it possible that a person could be unaffected by all edibles? and if not then what might be the reason that my previous experiences provided no effect (this was the firecrackers i mentioned in the OP)?

and i am going to be trying the oil edible as my final test as it seems to have about 99% succsess rate and very little room for cooking error.

thanks, freshlyground

It's very, very rare (almost unheard of) that a person is entirely unaffected by all edibles... if you were entirely 100% unable to absorb THC orally, you'd be incredibly, noticeably unhealthy, because you would very likely have difficulty absorbing most of the nutrition in your diet.


And that is precisely why I got into edible cannabis in the first place. I have serious digestive disorders, am unable to absorb most pharmaceutical meds efficiently, as well as much of the nutrition in food without the right processing first.

Coconut oil, combined the right way with a good diet and a few supplements, saved my hair and teeth!

But for a long, long while, before I took the time to educate myself, I also assumed that I had 'edible immunity'. I was also a lot more unwell, than I am today


Back in the day, I'd feed my friends and patients cookies that would knock them out, I'd eat one... then two... then four or five, and feel little to nothing. Friends who I knew had higher tolerances than myself, would be satisfied from a single cookie, or brownie, while I was left out in the cold smoking bowl after bowl to catch up, after eating four or five!
This was back in the day when butter-waters were more common, and there was much less information on the topic to be found.

Some people absolutely do absorb their meds more easily than others, with less processing... but the same tips and processing techniques, that allow those of us with edible difficulty, to achieve the sensation and medicinal benefit we are after, they also help those who had no previous issues to get MUCH more benefit, from smaller amounts of material.


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Firecrackers are considered 'worst-case-scenario' edibles.. they are specifically made for those people who, for whatever reason, can not make a quality oil. You are sacrificing a great deal of potency (as in multiple doses, per one, single, working dose), in exchange for the ease and discreet nature of the process.



When you don't promote bioavailability in an oil source, but just 'loosen up' the glandular material a bit, your body is left to absorb only what little active material, that manages to latch onto whatever lipids you may have just consumed.


-------------

Without something to effect and enhance cellular permeability, on their own, cannabinoids for the most part just bounce off our cellular walls (going 'in one end, and out the other' through our tract, without absorption), rather than being absorbed on contact, and passing through them.



The above 'water' could be brownie mix, it could be hot cocoa, it could be gravy for your mashed potatoes.

It represents whatever you just added your canna oil to, and it displays how your glandular material responds when properly made into a solution; it responds by maintaining a thin 'coat' of the solvent.


Our bodies simply are not capable of breaking down and absorbing much cannabis glandular material, in the amount of time it takes to digest and then pass that material.

And when we use an edible solvent, it not only breaks down and dilutes glandular material into particles small enough to be absorbed before they are even consumed, but it also provides a coating or 'vehicle' for cannabinoid delivery.

Water-butters, have a very difficult time creating any amount of 'solution/coating', in just a few hours of time/exposure to heat. It can only become a good solution after it's been broken down well enough, and after it's had enough contact with the oil alone.

------------

The oil you choose, specifically dictates where in your body the material will be absorbed, you need to process your glandular material and the required oil of your choice, with gentle heat, for long enough, to create a bioavailable solution. Activation also plays a huge roll in how your meds will effect you. The more activated, the more narcotic the sensation (this is what most recreational users are after), and the more pain-relief you will receive. Less-active material, in a bioavailable solution, can effectively provide anti-spasmodic help, some pain relief, anti-mutagenic/anti-cancer benefits, while leaving the patient much more functional (this allows people to increase their dose, and their exposure to cannabinoids and terpenes, exponentially, if they otherwise feel uncomfortable with too much 'active' THC).



Most patients and recreational users require short and medium-chain triglycerides (in coconut oil, and butter, with coconut oil being far superior, having a much higher medium-chain content, three to four times higher than butter) to experience the most from their medicine. This is because those fatty acids are absorbed via the portal vein and liver, which allows for the liver conversion to take place, converting much of your D9-THC, to the more powerful 11-OH-THC.

The long-chain triglycerides contained in most kitchen oils, only promote lymphatic absorption, which bypasses the liver.
In patients whose livers over-metabolize cannabinoids, regardless how little or much they've eaten and how recently they last ate, they need to rely on that lymphatic absorption in order to become medicated. By avoiding medium and short chain triglycerides they can absorb their meds; it provides a weaker, and shorter-lived experience, but, at least they can benefit from their meds, in the form of the remaining terpenes and activated D9-THC.

Try it both ways... but try it by processing exactly-the-same-way-both-times. You won't know why one oil worked, and the other didn't, if you get 'creative' while comparing the two and change things between trials.

If you feel your liver is doing more harm, than it is doing good for your meds, then olive oil is the long-chain containing oil that I would recommend.



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Keep in mind the water-butters of the old days required between 15 - 24 hours of gentle heat to be complete.
This is because you are drastically reducing the efficiency of your solvent, by diluting it with water.. that water soaks into the plant matter, it remains close to the glandular material (which sinks by the way, while oil floats), and doesn't allow the breakdown to occur, or a solution to be formed, in nearly the amount of time a pure oil source can.


With water-butters, you are left with two options; you either must over-process for many more hours than necessary, and expose your material to heat, for so long, that some (if not a lot) of your potent material has degraded, before a decent level of bioavailability is achieved.
Your other option with water-butters, is to stop short of the full process, in which case you have less degradation.... but much less bioavailability.


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Whether you're an average patient with normal digestion, and especially if you feel you may have an edible immunity, water should be the last thing you'd want to come into contact with your material! Avoid water contamination at all costs.

This is why the experts recommend, not only using butter alone, but that patients use clarified butter or ghee, which has had all its milk solids and water content removed.


Not only is your butter less apt to spoil when made with clarified butter, and not only will it invite less of the nasty-tasting inert plant matter (such as chlorophyll, plant waxes, bitter salts etc.) into the mix, but it works much, much better than it otherwise could at breaking down glandular material into a bioavailable form, without that water contamination.

This is why we have so much dosage discrepancy, and so many failed edible stories... the quality of your processing methods, as well as the oils you choose, both matter greatly. Different solvents (especially if they've been diluted) have different requirements, and they will interact within your body differently.



Hope this helps.

Edited by BadKittySmiles, 10 December 2011 - 04:23 AM.

wow alot to take in but very informative.

and unfortunately discretion is a main focus of mine when concerning edibles, but hopefully soon i can attempt an oil recipe with all this new information. and i'll admit, i am still a little confuesed on the whole process and science of it. do you have a link to the oil recipe that has worked for you?

thanks for all the info