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Jerrys Organic Obsession

  • by jerry111165
  • Nov 20 2011 02:22 PM
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  • Guest_ComfreyQuery_*
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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:08 AM

I think this has been discussed before but I'm too lazy to look it up, obviously put the neem and silica together then into the water, but which comes first the aloe or the neem solution? I hear mixing up the order in which they are put can mess up the mix? I believe it was in Papa Wayne's thread where he messed up on a neem solution by adding aloe after the neem?

Once you've added the Neem & Silica mix to the water (around 165F), you can add the Aloe Vera.

I didn't read Papa's post but what might have happened is that if you were to emulsify the oil with the liquid Silica and add the Aloe Vera directly into that mix then you will be starting over. Chemical reactions cause it to turn into a paste that's about as thick as peanut butter.

Water first - then Aloe Vera

Yucca extract is about 5x worse

HTH

CQ

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:36 AM

Thanks bro, I think that's exactly what happened to him.. I think a similar thing happened to my old spray too, its soo gunked up, I bought a good 1 and a cheap 1 just for the neem stuff from now, and I washed the neem sprayer out real real good before putting it aside for my pump sprayer.. Its made by mentally challenged and disabled people and the cheap little sprayer has better quality control than the chinese crap I got before.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:45 AM

Spinosad

This is a fermented bacteria culture (Saccharopolyspora spinosa (S. spinosa)). Through ingestion and even simple contact, the nervous system of the insect is accelerated to the point where they cannot function. In layman's terms they flip-out and go bezerk.

The following morning you should see almost no living insects. Because this is a fermented culture and not a hydrocarbon string like the botanical compounds, this material remains effective for 2 or 3 days vs. the 4 or 5 hour window with botanical teas.

Spinosad is controlled by a handful of companies who have licensed a few companies to market to the retail customer - Bonide (Captain Jack's Deadbug Brew) and Montery Garden Products (Monterey Garden Spinosad Concentrate).

Neither company handles the actual manufacturing so the product is shipped in bulk to their respective packers so there's absolutely no difference between them.

Where the differences come in is the price. Bonide is definitely centered on the mainstream nurseries and garden centers and their price reflects that - $20.00 for 16 oz. whereas the product from Monterey Garden Products is $20.00 for 32 oz. The labels call for 4 oz. per gallon of water - ain't cheap. But if you need an immediate kill zone this is a product to consider.

Spinosad is very safe. It's used in a dog and cat flea medication called Comfortis. You give your pet a single tablet once a month and the results speak for themselves. There are other brands containing Spinosad as well.

In the US products containing Spinosad must be purchased through a vet but in other countries it can be purchased over the counter. Canada is one of those countries - I think.

HTH

CQ

Edited by ComfreyQuery, 30 May 2012 - 06:48 AM.


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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:56 AM

Spinosad
This is a fermented bacteria culture...


Found in several plants once fermented I hope? I've seen it mentioned often.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

I can help testify that Spinosad WORKS. Mites dead & gone after 2 applications.

CQ, I'm very sorry to hear about Oregon Tilth. How and most importantly, WHY???

Cripes, I don't live there like you nor am I a member or anything like that but it made me proud, as an organic gardener just knowing that there was a watchdog out there with the integrity they did/do.

Again - why??

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:22 AM

Please don't tell me it was about $$$...

Perhaps you could give the folks that don't know a (quick) rundown of who Oregon Tilth is?

Edited by jerry111165, 30 May 2012 - 09:28 AM.


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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:17 PM

Please don't tell me it was about $$$...

Perhaps you could give the folks that don't know a (quick) rundown of who Oregon Tilth is?

Jerry

It was about money but not in a necessarily bad way. It's how it was worked out between the 'new guard' at Oregon Tilth (OT) and the California Certified Organic Farmers (CCOF) committees.

In the past it's been the growers who have shouldered a huge share of OT's operating costs through fees charged for inspections and verification during the certification process (5 years), annual fees based on revenue (minor issue), publication sales, speaking fees, appearances before the Oregon Legislature, etc.

But the food brokers, distributors, packers - they paid nada! That was okay (I guess) for most of the past 35+ years but beginning about 10 years back the applications for use of the OT logo (certification) by companies located overseas began to flood OT as it should have been but there was no revenue to help defray the associated costs.

Oregon Tilth, CCOF, Washington's group, et al. all came out of a group established in 1974 called Regional Tilth. RT was the big umbrella and the participating states would run their own programs under the 'big plan' - and this was good.

As things turned out, Oregon's program grew at an incredible rate so that by the late 70's OT broke away and within 2 years RT was no longer viewed as necessary by the California and other groups and it shut down.

All of this was 25+ years before Congress established the NOP (National Organic Program) at USDA. During those years other states wanting to establish an organic standard often would pass a bill that in essence was a 'me too' so that if OT changed a ruling on a mined mineral compound that would affect all signatories to the OT Standard - make sense?

This allowed OT to become a prominent voice in organic and sustainable farming but Oregon is a small state (small number of producers) vs. California's group. Fair enough - size matters.

California's largest industry is agriculture as is Oregon's. The fastest growing segment of the food industry is organically produced food. The problem is that many new organic food shoppers head to the frozen food section, grocery department, etc. and buy the same 'type' of products as before - frozen organic corn vs actually buying a f*cking ear of corn and actually cooking it.

So the grumblings began to get louder and louder over the past 5 years that Con-Agra, Archer Daniels Midland, et al. start helping out. Organic farmers are the 1% against these assholes, the 99%

The merger will consolidate the 2 oldest and largest organic certification groups. OT probably has a larger staff than the one at USDA NOP - seriously. USDA's standards in many areas (again mined minerals) is a toothless tiger.

So the negative reaction by the sick & the lame (like me) against what the 'new guard' has come up with is that since California is a bigger state and therefore they have a much larger staff, etc. that they could be the 'big contact' - the 'big operator' - fine. Whatever - I'm okay with most of this overall.

But it's the f*cking name CCOF? F*ck you! Period.

I won't buy an espresso at the chain called Seattle's Best Coffee <snerk - no reason that I can find to support hubris and/or Seattle's usual absurdity> so why would I want to belong to an organization whose roots go back to 'the beginning' of this thing that's now represented to be a 'California thing' when it never was.

Oregon (tail) wags California (dog) in organic certification and has since the first meeting in Ellensberg, Washington in 1974 - CCOF is too large to respond to issues quickly. With that many members there are just too many agendas at play - like trying to corral a herd of cats.

Besides when you have the real organic terrorists in Oregon doing the brain work and all you have to do is review it, implement it and claim it - why not call the new organization CCOF?

Rant over

CQ

Edited by ComfreyQuery, 30 May 2012 - 12:23 PM.


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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:04 PM

Thanks CQ.

Again - very sorry to hear this.

jerry.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

This won't stand. The merger will happen and that can be a good thing and it will be voted on by the general membership later this summer.

Before a merger can be approved (IMHO) the name be changed to reflect a regional organization that would include the Washington group (solid people) - think they would join an organization referencing California?

Take Vermont - a very small state but has a powerful voice in national organic standards. That is in no small part due to the efforts of Ben Cohen & Jerry Greenfield. Huge influence in that state and surrounding states. Think the Vermont organic growers' association would be willing to change their name to Massachusetts Organic Consortium? Pennsylvania? New York? LOL

So before a merger can take place a new name is paramount. The existing board at OT will either bend to the membership or they'll be tossed out. The by-laws of OT are as close to pure 'people power' because that's where the organization came out of. You have old members from the first meeting down to members with 1 month.

This is a generational issue at its core, again IMHO. The old guard who petitioned the legislature, paid for research, organized community gardens in the population centers (Portland, Eugene, Salem, etc.), ran gardens at public schools, wrote pieces for the voter guides on issues that might impact the organic standards, etc. and to sell that work off as though it never mattered - this won't stand.

I still have an email address associated with OT from the days of working on standing committees (material review for the most part) and in the past 2 days I've received over 100 emails. People are pissed off and this isn't a passing deal - the kids are going to lose this one.

It's said that changes in life can open new doors of opportunity and I believe that can happen. In this case there are 10 board members who will be given the opportunity to update their resumes and look for a new career path - organic standards isn't in their future.

CQ

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:03 PM

I'm really starting to think that CQ is some kind of robot/computer. Reminds me of the movie Eagle Eye but instead of trying to take out the leaders of the US it is setup to troll the organic area of the GC forums. I'm onto you!!!!

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

I'm really starting to think that CQ is some kind of robot/computer.


I'm sure he's a Mac. ;)

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:01 PM

I'm really starting to think that CQ is some kind of robot/computer. Reminds me of the movie Eagle Eye but instead of trying to take out the leaders of the US it is setup to troll the organic area of the GC forums. I'm onto you!!!!



Or just a smart good dude.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:52 PM

I'm sure he's a Mac. ;)


the migety migety mac!
who remembers this song?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAhp17Mp7Xs&feature=relmfu]Kris Kross - Warm It Up - YouTube[/ame]

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:52 PM

Or just a smart good dude.


With an obvious love of organics, and educating. Damn I'm glad he's here.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

I'm totally thrilled the organic robot is here :) Super helpful, I'm just shocked at the knowledge that flows at all times. It's just amazing.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:31 PM

Or just a smart good dude.

Yup, this is definitely the case IMO anyways... I would also add CQ is probably a prolific reader, as people just don't get that kind of knowledge from watching television programming..

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:55 PM

lol, that's for sure Noob! Gotta read to learn, solid few percent of the population still reads for information. I love that there are people here so knowledgeable though, it's just awesome!

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:35 PM

Chunk was kind enough to send me a link to this hydroponic supplier, Custom Hydro Nutrients. They sell as pure a form of powdered Potassiuim Silicate that you're going to find.

But here's where I need help and that's in the dilution rate.

Here are the numbers of the powder: Mixing 0.70 grams to 1 gallon of water gives you 98 ppm Silica (Si) and 46 ppm Potassium (K)

Here are the numbers of Dyna Gro Pro-TeKt: Potassium (K2O - the venerable and ubiquitous Soluble Potash) @ 3.7% and Silicon (SiO2 - Silica Oxide) @ 7.8%

So you would want to know 2 things: What would be the mixing rate to hit the Dyna-Gro numbers which are after the mixing? IOW - what amount of this compound would I need to add to a gallon of water based on their numbers to end up with the final numbers of Pro-TeKt?

Then you would want to know what would be the mixing ratio with water to hit the numbers of Pro-TeKt right out of the bottle when you're using it as an emulsifier?

The price for a full pound is $12.00 plus whatever S&H charges are involved. Can't be much for a single pound but this is a hydroponic supplier so we'll have to see.

CQ

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:43 PM

Calcium Chloride

The same store sells this compound: 1 lb. @ 6.75 or 4 lbs. @ $14.00 again with S&H

No comments one way or the other from my end. Do your research and evaluate it for using in your gardens.

CQ

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:45 PM

Chunk was kind enough to send me a link to this hydroponic supplier, Custom Hydro Nutrients. They sell as pure a form of powdered Potassiuim Silicate that you're going to find.

But here's where I need help and that's in the dilution rate.

Here are the numbers of the powder: Mixing 0.70 grams to 1 gallon of water gives you 98 ppm Silica (Si) and 46 ppm Potassium (K)

Here are the numbers of Dyna Gro Pro-TeKt: Potassium (K2O - the venerable and ubiquitous Soluble Potash) @ 3.7% and Silicon (SiO2 - Silica Oxide) @ 7.8%

So you would want to know 2 things: What would be the mixing rate to hit the Dyna-Gro numbers which are after the mixing? IOW - what amount of this compound would I need to add to a gallon of water based on their numbers to end up with the final numbers of Pro-TeKt?

Then you would want to know what would be the mixing ratio with water to hit the numbers of Pro-TeKt right out of the bottle when you're using it as an emulsifier?

The price for a full pound is $12.00 plus whatever S&H charges are involved. Can't be much for a single pound but this is a hydroponic supplier so we'll have to see.

CQ

But what would be the point of making a "Dyna gro" like product when you have the raw material and the application rate sounds about right IMO.. You have to think that dyna gro is a concentrate and they want you to dilute it pretty heavily.. So I'd say just go with what it says to get the right PPM, and see if that will emulsify some neem.. I don't have a PPM meter to check the dyna gro


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