I'm tired, my nicotine patch has had me up all night, I want a bloody cigarette, and as you all know weed is a far distant dream to me at this point. So yes, I'm grouchy. Bear with me here.
My bona fides: I've been an active shooter for the better part of my life. I compete in shooting tournaments--one of the reasons I'm weed free, and will be until laws change. I ain't giving up my 2nd amendment rights just to get high, my pain levels suck but I can kinda live with 'em until the high-dose NSAIDs make me puke blood, and I ain't going to jail for years because I've got guns and weed in the house at the same time. The laws as written suck, and yes I'm bitter about it.
I was a wrench spinner in the Navy (to be precise I was a wire-biter--electrician to you civilian pukes--but we still spun lotsa wrenches), but I spent most of my off-duty hours with the guys whose job it was to kill people and break shit. I've got friends in every branch of specops, and sometimes they talk shop in their cups. I've gotten to play with more toys than most Hollywood actors, including heavy weapons like crew-served machine guns, grenade launchers, and artillery. yes, I got to play with miniguns, and I got to play with CWIS on board ship. It sounds like God's fart when it goes off.
Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this started as a continuation from the Chinese bullets thread. not that many of you seem to be familiar with firearms, so part of this will be Guns 101.
first, the basics.
a semiautomatic weapon goes bang once every time you pull the trigger. It ejects the spent brass and puts the next round in place so you can pull the trigger. Unless you have special permits (and believe me, those permits get your name in all kinds of databases) you can only purchase a semiauto weapon in the US, or a weapon that requires manual cycling of the action to chamber the next round.
an automatic continues to go bang from the time you pull the trigger until you let it go, or until it runs out of ammo.
hosing an area with rounds is often referred to by those with a clue as "spray and pray" because you're not going to hit shit unless the law of averages plays your way--you spray an area with rounds and pray one hits the intended target.
This method is the preferred modus operandi of the gangbangers that use these weapons and the mujhadeen rank and file. Their veterans tend to shoot better, but the days of the Desert Marksman are pretty much over, with the glaring exception of the truly scary muj.
You can tell professionals by the way that they use burst fire--a weapon set to full auto but fired in short, more controllable bursts. Note, I said more controllable, not easily controlled. Even the slight recoil of 5.56 NATO makes the second and iterative follow-on rounds harder to control. The AK is notoriously inaccurate in anything outside of single-fire mode. Hell, one way to tell Chinese Kalashnikov variants from Russian variants is whether they pull up and to the left or pu and to the right--and they pull way the hell up. Spray and pray an AK and you may as well stand on the damn barrel to keep it down.
pretty much any gun you can buy legally in the US, at a gun show or not, without federal paperwork is going to be semiauto, or manually cycled in some way: pump, lever, or bolt action, or a manual change of cartridges.
It's much easier to simply buy an automatic rifle than it is to make the conversion. the parts to make the conversion are regulated just like the full auto weapons themselves are. BATF agents are all over the gun shows fishing for the conversion parts and the full auto guns with every bit the rabid ferocity and entrapment techniques that regular LEO use in the war on drugs.
now, to the main points of the post:
the myth that all their guns come from here is just that, a myth.
American guns in Mexico: The 90 percent myth | United Liberty | Free Market - Individual Liberty - Limited Government
The PJ Tatler » U.S. admits that Mexican cartels get military weaponry from Central America
According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.
Latin American Herald Tribune - Mexican Cartels Get Heavy Weapons from Central America, U.S. Cables Say
Mexico: Economics and the Arms Trade | STRATFOR
Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | STRATFOR
So, there ya go. 90% of the weapons that we were given information about and can trace, a small fraction of the total seized, can be traced back to the US. The main source of US guns in the hands of the drug cartels is from guns we either gave 'em during Fast and Furious, or guns our gubmint gave the Mexican gubmint that they lost control of. Word among my former associates says the majority of the rest are traded up from the southern Mexican border, and that they tend to come in factory case lots from China and Russia. I can't cite you that though, don't ask. That tidbit cost me half a case of Bombay gin.
A note about assault weapons. The definition you folks use makes me want to bite someone, you've been so brainwashed by the libtard smoothcrotch sackless media you'd think there were assault weapon baseball bats if they said it.
Assault Weapons at GunCite: gun control and Second Amendment issues has about the best definition for your needs.
this is opposed to the (now expired) "assault weapons ban" definition
A genuine assault weapon, as opposed to a legal definition, is a hand-held, selective fire weapon, which means it's capable of firing in either an automatic or a semiautomatic mode depending on the position of a selector switch. These kinds of weapons are heavily regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and are further regulated in some states. (See machine guns.)
However, current "assault weapon" legislation defines certain semi-automatic weapons as "assault weapons." A semi-automatic weapon is one that fires a round with each pull of the trigger, versus an automatic weapon which continues to shoot until the trigger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted. These kinds of "assault weapons" are sometimes referred to as military-style semi-automatic weapons.
An example of assault weapon legislation is the Federal 1994 Crime Bill. The bill in part outlaws new civilian manufacture of certain semi-automatic assault weapons. It also prohibits new civilian manufacture of "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" declared certain weapons as assault weapons, and states a semi-automatic rifle is an assault weapon if it can accept a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following:
(For the Crime Bill's definition of assault shotguns and pistols, a list of assault weapons, and further legal issues see Crime Bill FAQ.)
- A folding or telescoping stock
- A pistol grip
- A bayonet mount
- A flash suppressor, or threads to attach one
- A grenade launcher.
[The 1994 Crime Bill expired on September 13, 2004. See Semiautomatic Assault Weapon (SAW) Ban QUESTIONS & ANSWERS from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.]
tl;dr: 24% of the total guns seized had information reported to the US. 13% of the total guns seized were traceable by the US, and 11.6% of the total could be traced to the US. not 90%
it's called sampling error!
Edited to clear up the "all guns are semiauto" issue
Edited by LurkMode7.62, 20 September 2011 - 06:42 PM.