I usually like to do it in an open forum, that way if someone else has this issue, they can read through and maybe lead them to a cure... But I will ALWAYS help a fellow grower if I can... Now I'm no expert here Dusty and what works or worked for me, may not work for you... I can only advise you from my past experiences and how I cured an issue.... Honestly here, I thought for sure the pool shock would cure your issue.. Which now leads me to believe it is not in fact, a bacteria issue.. Pure Mich (God it's good to be back in Mich again! lol) makes a valid point... But you said in another thread that you gave your friend a clone from your cloner and within a week or so, root rot again which effected his/her whole crop that is a different strain.. Does he/she use a different nutrient??? But if that is the case, it leads me back to the cloner passing the problem... After going through and reading the thread in your signature, it seems you're right on target... The bubbler temps are a little higher than what I would like to see, but not so bad I would say "there is your problem"... I would like to see them temps in the mid 60s... To be honest, I never liked DWC or RDWC, to me they are a LOT more maintenance than flood and drain... Well during the grow anyway and not so much the cleaning to be redeployed... What made you go to bubblers with that kickass setup?? Why not a ebb&gro (flood and drain) site system??? But again, if you passed a clone to another location and it infected that other location (of a different strain) with root rot, it leads me back to the clonner and or cloning process.. I also seen you cloned in soil (if I read it right), does them clones have the same issue in flowering using the DWCs??
I'm having the worst first time experience with my bubble bucket grow right now as well, not as big of a grow yours, but some of the same shit is happening to me. I'm also using advanced nutrients and am wondering if it is helping the problem in any way. If you happened to recognize anything familiar in my post and know some possible solutions please feel free to give me your opinions. http://forum.grasscity.com/hydropon...ics-nutrients-water-im-stumped-need-help.html Subbed..
Ok here is a quick answer without even reading any thread so don't hold it against me. Advanced nutrients is some watered down nutrients. Unless you have their 12 products you don't quite have what it takes to grow a plant. You are better off going with many other companies. For instance botanicare or GH. So it does not surprise me you had problems with advanced nutrients.
I disagree, AN GMB and pro-tekt only, not saying AN is better GH is good to, but just because some people buy into using 12 parts not everyone does and AN works fine.
Sorry, I was told from multiple people I spend too much time researching stuff. That I need to cool it and relax. I just cant do it. Actually things are even more busy and I just dont have the time to report back. Well actually, everything changes soo much, if I say somthing, it changes and changes and sooner or later, the shit coming out of my mouth doesnt even sound credible anymore -Facts- -I have root issues -I have growth issues -I have what look to be nute defs (in veg/ mothers/clones) -Both issues affect how "I think" I should feed. This makes more issues. Trying to KISS I was randomly browsing images, Found an image of TMV (tobacco mosaic virus and other types of mosaic) and sure as shit, I have this. I found many many threads from GC, RUI, ICMAG and all the photos are like. When I first started I had 5x strains but I got it on my Grape god. Hours and hours of reading showed me early, mid and late stages. It is the same as my plants to a T. Only difference, is the photos I see of flowers/buds are affected/burned. My buds are perfect. I notice the alfalfa mosaic virus causes wilting. I have wilting. Other then those two differences its the same. Same mottling, same hooking/deformed leaves that increase with stresss, same leaf bleaching soon after 12/12 switch, Same leaves getting "chewed" away from some form of bug (even though theres no visable bugs). -Time line- -got 5x strains -Went down to two, pineapple express and grape god. -Only flowered grape god (favorite smoke) out, ran 3x cycles with nothing but issues -Issues issues issues -Got 2x tents -Got 12 new strains -Kept them quarantined for 3-4 wks. -Kept overlooking the serious signs of TMV on the extra GG clone that was in the bunch, all other plants looked great. -Transplanted to 1g pots and into tent, all but gg looked great -Transplanted to 7g pots, plants showing nute def, leaf margin is yellowing, some cal and/or mg issues. Grape god and one more plant showing visual leaf hook and mottling/bleaching. -Killed he bad looking GG clone. -Now im lost on what to do or where to start. I know my pineapple express mother doesnt have it AND It has been here from the begining. It could be highly immune to it? But I DO believe it is systemic. I just dont know how spread it is between all the cuttings I just got. I just read this all last night, just confirmed it this morn. Im just blown away. I will have to wait to see how many strains affected and keep looking for diagnosis tips. I know its viral and cant go away once affected. I just have to see where I am. Ive heard of milk or asprin applications. Looking into those as well. -NOW WHAT- Bloom -Stability of ph in bloom went away about the same time I noticed the "light bleaching", about a week into 12/12 switch. (Light bleaching is tmv symptom). Ph began to drop at the same time as water was being uptaken. BUT the ppms were also dropping? -Plants are wilting in bloom. This ph drop and or some stress that happening is cauing the tmv to "flair up" and the wilting begins. Makes me think its overwatering/not enough DO. -Roots RIGHT now are very nice, nicest ive had em yet (thanks to Heis at RIU and his benne tea). BUT only time will tell if this turns into "brown slime algae" or "pythium" soon. -VEG- -I have been misting daily with cal/mag -I started top feeding 1oz through the hydroton around stem incase there not getting enough water. -They "seem" to be lightly greeing up (not much though but some) -I noticed a few new roots on 2 of 6 buckets -I raised ppms to 300 (100cal mag and 200 sensi a/b) -I still didnt see much growth so I raised the water level back up to the bottom of the net cup (on transplant, the root was long enough to reach the water BUT the main root mass was about 3inches up in the hydroton. On each transplant I fed the long root down into the water from day 1, I didnt coil it at the bottom like I did in the past. I also didnt start the water at the bottom of the net cup. I started it 1" below. -I noticed the leaves were standing a little taller the following day -I noticed a "slight" bit more ph stability with a little more nutes in there, ph now slowly rising to 6.0 in 2 days vs in 24 hours like before (I always seem to have ph issues) -I noticed more roots coming from net cup vs just elongation of main root. -Will see in 40 mins what there doing today?? Veg plan 2 -I started 12 gg in a DWC cloner (suggested from Heis over at RIU) 10 of them rooted in 2weeks. -All solid white roots -I took the white paper off some grodan, cut a slit down the middle and slipped in the clone, then put the white paper back on. -Made some panda film light blockers to keep mold out -Im going to veg them till there a healthy size and if they surpass my current dwc clones, there taking there place. -I have NEVER in the past year used a clone with RW or grodan w/ hydroton in my dwc, always 100% hydroton (is this bad for baby cutting?) -I always worry about over watering the root crown so in the past I keep the water level low. I never get roots coming from side of net cup down into the water. I always get only 3-5 main roots down into water, the branching happens under water. My concern is that upon transplant, the roots around the root crown/up in the hydroton is drying out too much and roots are dieing. This is stressing the plant and causing slow verticle and root growth. Currently, I have the water level at the bottom of the net cups, I will leave it there (unless the plants tell me otherwise) untill I have some roots coming from the side of the net cup, down into the water. -So if this works, my new process will be. Mother, clone, veg in RW for 1wk, veg in 3g dwc bucket for 3wks, then bloom for X amount of time. (does this sound stupid?) -Mothers- -One gg mother is affected with some form of mosaic virus -She was murdered last night -One strain, ak47 is showing on one leaf blade some symptoms of a mosaic virus -It was really late last night when I got the discovery so I didnt get a chance to go over them all. -My wife is not researching her shit and underfeeding them AND am having ph run a touch high. I rode her ass about it and will be making changes as soon as yesterday. Hopefully, they bounch back here soon! -I know an unhealthy plant invites pests/disease! -I do NOT know what to do with these plants (too much $ to just wipe them out right now). -I do NOT know how/if they are all infected -I do NOT smoke, so it isnt from me (it was how I got them) -I do NOT have any pests/bugs to spread/transmit the virus. -I believe I just have to wait it out and see if I see signs of mosiac. -I DO know if its there, its never going away so killing them all would be another fact -Right now, I just want them green and healthy asap.... (any tips for this? I need quick fert, quick green but dont want to over fert AND my leaf tips just turned yellow, isnt this over fert? AHHHH I wanna pull out my hair!) Sanitation -I have been really on top of being clean and keeping tools clean and seperate. -I always wash before entering and touching -I now change clothes every time -I never touch multiple cycle with out washing between. -I have been able to keep one strain free and clear of any of this mosiac virus. I have had her since day one and I think I have been sanitary enough from day 1 NOT to cross contaminate. They are the only two strains I have had from day 1. Both in my grow area but behind different walls. -I am going to be using a spray form of h20+ pool shock to disenfect everything from now on. Questions/current research -Do leaves that arent visually damaged by TMV spread the virus on touch? OR do the touching leaves have to be damaged to spread? -Is foliar spraying milk affective in preventing the spread? If so, whats the dose and schedule for maximum effectiveness? -Ive read a little about asprin. Is this preventative measure, attempt to erradicate or soly to keep the virus from flairing up? Is this foliar or root fed? Whats the dose and schedule for maximum effectiveness? Sorry for the book. Its shit like this that floods my brain on the day to day. Makes my head spin.... You think id have this shit handled by now... Cmon Dusty.... I mean WTF
Have you seen this post 420 Mag.??? How do I identify and prevent Root Rot? - 420 Magazine Looks exactly what you're going through and says Dutch Master Gold Range Zone cured it... So I did some research on that and see mixed reviews.. But for $20 bucks worth a try... Dutch Master Gold Range Zone - 1 Liter Some say once you get it, it's best to replace all buckets, hoses, pumps, and hydroton, and then just start over... I see in your other thread that you pulled everything apart and cleaned it... Did you use bleach during the cleaning process?? There is another product that is said to kill it called Physan 20... http://forum.grasscity.com/cannabis-breeding/622794-tobacco-mosaic-virus-tmv-2.html#post7768671 A few that are going through what you're going through say, F**K it, back to soil...
A main issue I have with this DWC thing, well being a noob in general, is all the different ppm suggestions. Now I know there .5 and .7 conversion rates, my pen being .5 and theres different strengths required for indica and sativa. But everyone says hydro makes uptake soomuch more you dont need that much nutes, less is more. I just dont get the nice lush green plants I want when younger with low ppms. My clones are cut from low ppms donors and then they as well, cant handle a bunch of nutes. Where do I want to be, ppms wise wk 1 day 1 for a plant say, 6" tall? BTW THANKS FOR THE HELP!
a strange question, but do you shower before you walk into your grow space? i see your now changing clothing... seems a bit excessive, just go naked... easier, and no im not joking, well maybe use undies... naked is excessive,hahahaha ever thought of moving to a ebb and flow tray? some roots organics coco in smart pots? its easier and alot like a mix of soil and hydro... it would be a good to move on man... after reading those articles of TMV it just makes things so discouraging with hydro grows..... so bummed right now
A note to smokers the lactic acid in milk cuts the protein shell, evidently. When i was a teenager I worked tobacco. It's hard brutal work, and the farmer made us wash our hands with powdered milk if we smoked. I've looked into it a bit now that I'm a biochemistry grad student. from what I've seen, it couldn't hurt. and since you're doing it at a sink not the middle of a field in the heat of summer, you won't have to worry about reeking of sour milk half the day thought this was interesting.... thought i would repost... completely stolen from that thread... lurkmode7.62
Well this is kind of another big debate, thus why you get so many answers.. Some say ease into the max ppm, some say as soon as they come from the cloner they get full nutes.... I have always did 1/2 strength 1st week, 3/4 second, full 3 week to flower.. Then of course when I change to flower, it stays full strength, just adding the flower supplements.... Different strains can take different levels, but I have always found right around 1000 ppm to be strong enough to stabilize the pH, give you lush growth and to never burn.. I ran between 1040 to as high as 1150 and did not get any burn from AN.. BUT DO NOT USE THEIR MIXING DIRECTIONS, they are fucked up, mix according to ppm, then fine tune pH if you wish... AN wants the pH at 5.6.. Also if you look at AN's schedule, they want 1036 ppm weeks 1-4... That's also what I started with this past round, then again within the 4th week of veg. I was at 1150 ppm and seen no burn or issues...
daaaaammmmmmiiiiitttt..... that stupid TMV thread is killing me.... so i got bored and started looking at pics of strawberry cough grows and reviews and take a look at this pic Marijuana Strain Library - Strawberry Cough Marijuana Strain thats suppose to be a great picture of a top ten of all time strain..... why, why,why did i read that dumb thread....
Actually sometimes I do shower before but not usually. When I get home most times its right when the lights turn on. I clean up after work, go tend the garden. Not a big deal really. BUT, I wasnt telling the truth always, I dont always change clothes. I strip to boxers. I just wasnt going to go out and say it. But I first started doing it for bugs? I hope the comment doesnt mean you think im a dirty person or live in a dirty house. it was brand new and were first owners. Were really not scrubby people. Flood and drain. I was scared of RW because I didnt understand it. The guy that would have really taught me stuff moved away and I know he ran flood drain. The TMV shouldnt be somthing you can just aquire from thin air. I would more so think you would need a donor/source. I dont smoke so I dont really know where it could come from. Now there are farms in my area so I suppose I could contract an alfalfa mosaic or a cucumber mosaic virus? But I would think more so TMV. I dont think hydro would be any more volnurable. I read a bunch of hydro specific (not mj, but fruit and such) stuff and it was saying it doesnt seem to transmit via rootzone/nutrient sulution. Its vectors are BY TOUCH and (from the way I interperate it) enters via a wound site? IMO, cloning and trimming the leaves and cramming a bunch together could be nasty! The worst vector is bugs because they eat from multiple plants and when they chew on plants there creating wounds. But it is said that leaves rubbing and people fondling is another common vector. It can also transmit via seeds and dry bud/leaves. A little more research show california right now is having a big problem with TMV. Lots of collectives and smokers passing dirty clones. I read this also, I was debating foliar spraying with milk but I figured any leaf rubbing has already been done in the nursery before me. Either they have it or they dont. Its like the herps, its either flaired up or it isnt. Right now, dialing in my systems is keeping the stress down, the lower stress keeps my mj herpes from flairing. Thanks, as corny as it sounds, this really helps!! I know right, I was looking at threads of other Grape god strains and it seems I see lots of wilting. Even in pro wearhouse grows. Im like WTF, there not amatures. I bet not all nurserys use poor handling practices, some do and its sad but I have seen un diseased strains of it out there. Maybe strawberry cough nurserys are using poor practices. Once its there, its like the herps, no denying it. Dude, you two are are about the only ones willing to help. Some random browsers but no repeat posters. YOU GUYS ROCK!! Pix coming soon. SMALL UPDATE -I let the h202 disipate out over a week or so. I have no brown. I added the biological contol agents. -They are standing up and greening up even more, slight root growth as well. -Blooms herpes arent at full flare yet. But there are a few out breaks -Ph in bloom and veg are currently stable. Im loving it.
Hell, get butt naked, get in there, and just go hog wild man!!! hahahahaha Dude I'm telling you guys, if I could find a hole on 1 of my females that was even close to big enough for me, my wife would not be around anymore... LMFAO!! OMG if she seen this, I'm thinking that I would not be around anymore... hahahaha I do the same thing... If I have been outside cutting the lawn, or tending the veg garden, avoid my indoor garden.. I usually tend my indoor garden in the morning like you Dusty. Also whenever I'm going to clone, after washing my hands and arms, I take that antibacterial hand sanitizer, do my hands, and well past my wrists.. Never knew if it helped, but knew it could not hurt.. Well you still can do flood and drain with hydroton.. When I first started back in '95, I used the 1" RW cubes to root and the bubblers... But after so many bubble buckets, what a pain in the ass to change... Then tried DWC for a while and a year or so changed to the ebb&gro site systems, and never really went to anything else.. They ALL are great systems to use... IMO you will get better from DWC and RDWC over a flood and drain... Why I'm not 100% sure... But have seen them ebb&gro and DWC side by side and the DWC's yield was more and a little better smoke too IMO.. Yes it is transfered by touch... But do not forget about the food you eat too... Say you eat something which was infected (now it is on your hands), then go do some cutting or something, to me that could be a transfer point... Because even if you wash, clearly water does not kill any of the mosaics, so to me it still would be on the object you're touching, then your hands, then your plants... The funny thing here, I have ALWAYS seen the trained horticulturists use surgical gloves when making cuttings, but I thought they were just being fancy, or proper, and trying to look all professional... Maybe they know something about cross contaminating us dumb-ass gardeners do not get (until now).. Ya, you have to be careful of clones from dispensaries.. If you think about it, they are not true horticulturists, but the average Joe Blow that read a forum for a few days, got a couple/few patients sign up, paid rent on a place, and fired it all up.. I have heard dispensaries passing spider mites and even aphids... So all you want to do is get a new strain, and end up dam near killing your whole garden trying to combat something which was not your fault. Personally I grow from seed when I want a new strain.. Glad I could help.. Ya but if you think about it, like herps, if the girl is not flared up and having an outbreak, you do not know until you're saying "what the fuck is this on my dick"???? Well not sure how much help I've been, but got no problems sticking around to bounce ideas off each other... Or even just to chat with a couple of cool MF'ers... Like I have said, in my past experiences with this kind of issue, being bacterias, or whatever below the water line, you never really can get rid of it, only control it until you can get the crop out, stripe everything down, clean ALL plastics with bleach, and then replace anything which is porous such as air stones and hydroton.. Some say you can also clean the air stones and hydroton, but I buy the cheap stones and the hydroton is not that costly, so I just replace them and be done with it... That is the only way I have ever really been able to truly rid the garden of any type of below water line issues... Fingers still crossed... Looking forward to the pics!!
Also Dusty, Not sure if this helps or not... This last time when I used AN, I noticed if I set the pH to 5.6 where they wanted it, the pH pretty much stayed right on target until the weekly change... But when I mixed the fresh soup and the pH was say 5.8, if I left it there, I would get a climb in pH almost a full point before the week's change of the res... Now, what that did was reinforce to me personally that for whatever reason, AN is better adsorbed at 5.6 than 5.8... Or there is more of the nitrification process (a natural accruing process where beneficial bacteria in the medium breaks down the urea and ammonium from the nutrients and convert them into usable form) taking place at 5.6 as opposed to 5.8.. Of course we know that a plant can directly change the pH (usually raising it).. But very few know that the beneficial bacteria give off an acid molecule which actually lowers your growing mediums pH... So it is a balance of everything... Everything must be in line as far as environment, water temps, nutrient TDS levels, etc. for stable a pH.. I'm attaching a great read about pH produced by Big Mike's team (Advanced Nutrients)... I personally found it very informational and after reading it, deploying some of the knowledge gained, my pH has never been more stable.. Now I know if my pH starts to swing, there is a problem with something that needs to be addressed within the environment, water temps, nutrient TDS levels, etc. etc. So if my pH is not within the norm, I'm looking at everything for a cause, and not just the water and nutes... Hope that helps... Well it won't attach for some reason... So here is a link to the doc... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...h6iVBQ&usg=AFQjCNGytwxp_rX6E1afDeUJpfpTXPevPw
i don't think your dirty at all..... the pics from your grow space scream OCD... there's noting wrong with a little organization though, heaven knows i could use some... after some extensive reading... TMV can be reduced if bugs are under control.... does this make you wanna use CO2 to control bugs and get a bigger yield? if you introduce CO2, and wash before entering(im talking hands here) and wear clean cloths.... this should drastically reduce problems... I have access to free gloves... I plan to start using those on a regular basis now.... now i don't even wanna touch my buds anymore... the more pictures i look at the more i get skeezed out... TMV seems to be a pretty serious problem... I have yet to see side effects from smoking TMV infected plants... I dont know if i wanna know if there are problems... but seriously consider switching to trays... it might solve alot of your problems.....
Jakester- Can't reply how I want to cuz im on my phone. Lots of good info u just dropped here. -i have read the ph manifesto, good read. This is what helped me to make the changes needs to get my ph stable. -I did not know the bennes could lower my ph? Now ill plan to use more bennes if my ph is raising. Less if its lowering. All while dialing in my tds. Speed- -I will take the cross contamination into consideration. I will start wearing gloves now. -I read that tmv is on a LOT of dry tobacco. Simply rolling a cig can contaminant you. That's why all of the talk of the use of milk. -I don't smoke Cigs, so im good there. But if my bud is contaminated that's a different story. -I wash hands every time now, use disinfectant wipes and am buying a hanging liquid disinfectant this weekend. No more cross contamination. -i know everything surrounding my grape god is volnurable. BUT, past practices show I have been able to keep it separated enough between my pineapple express and grape god. So, I must be doing somthing right? -my contamination concern is "if" my new cuttings I just got were NOT infected. I would like to keep them that way. -i don't get my cuttings from dispensary. I get them from a super old school secret grower lady that's deep in the woods. I just told her what virus she has and she's flipping out. More to come
Forgot to mention that I don't want to do anything too drastic just yet. Like wipe the whole crop. Depending how contagious this virus is depends on how c'est it would spread to new/disease free clones/seeds. I have he'd multiple harvests inside the home AND have touched the buds/leaves and touched a lot of things in my house. Im worried i wont be able to completely eradicate of the virus in my home and infect all my new clones. I don't want to do anything till I have a solid plan.