organics is suppose to be the way to grow... kinda like god intended... have you considered light leaks? im kinda grasping at straws... you seem to be all over stuff... hope you figure it out... you even cover up the top of your plants with some sort of paper/reflective material.... im stumped
I honestly think it all starts in the cloner. Then being a noob and cutting lower, unhealthy clones for the next batch produced unhealthy veg plants. Lesson learned. Since I have been experimenting with different methods of cloning. Not just the aero cloner. I need to put one of these trials all the way through to know if Im on the right path or not though. Sux time moves soo slow. lol Thanks for you help guys!! (Oh and I downed my bloom room between harvests this last time. I put up sheet rock and insulation on my origional framed+panda film walls, now voth sides of walls are sheetrocked. Soo nice for temperature control now. I said fuck it and caulked everthing too, every crack everywhere.. I seperated my veg and bloom light cooling (It WAS leaking light ever soo slightly I noticed at the end of bloom when I raised my lights to the roof and there wasnt much "droop" in the vent ducting. I didnt know till after harvest and I ran a quick test. NOW, it is seperate, on there own 600cfm fans that are powered by there own CAP variable speed controling, day night controlers. There also ducted into a new custom exhaust plenum in my attic and plumbed to a new 6" roof vent I installed. The intake is under the house and has no possible light leaks past 2x filters. The entry door has 3x methods of light blockage. Foam, rubber trim and a black sheet thats cut larger that is drapped over the door for tripple protection. When your in the room with lights off, its freaking scary dark... You cant see anything if you pretend. I made absolutly sure this time. But Ive pulled a few bananas so that wasnt it. BUT, I am noticing that there isnt seed filled seed brachs. Im hoping for another sensimila crop )
If your ppms are dropping while pH rises that's not "impossible". That's normal conditions for underfeeding. As you say, I don't think that's the main problem you're having, but EC going up and pH going down usually means to feed more. From the sound of it you've knocked out quite a few potential contributing problems and are ready to start fresh. I'd like to see you give the AN nutes a fair shake now that you've fixed the other problems.
Well no luck. 3 days in on fresh clones and the slime or what ever is brown is back.... No b52 this time. Im stumped.
what if you just live with the slime in the cloner, then drop the temps of your soup to kill it off in the grow area?
They absolutely thrive on the cloner. I used to veg them a little in there, then swap them into my dwc buckets once they were 8" or so tall and had nice root balls. That made them adapt well to the dwc. This time, I left them in the cloner for minimum amount of time and went straight to dwc. I hope this time they are large enough to fight the pathogen and not too small to defend its self. Now I wonder if its either light leaks or temps ( very discouraging knowing many others have tried chillers and light proofing BEFORE going to the lengths I have, only to fail as well. This makes me leary to go spend a ton of dough on somthing that wont fix my issues for sure. Plus, making all my veg plants recirculating is going to be a PITA. I like the ability to remove and wash each bucket OR just simply having them separated so i have the ability to remove one if its problematic.
Did you ever address proper aeration of your root mass? Sometimes the root ball can get so massive and dense that enough oxygen doesnt reach the center of the ball. I've been using sunleaves oxystones with a legit hydro air pump and the side by side with the same pump they make aquarium stones look pathetic. Sludge in the cloner, seems like a light leak or temps which you may have already come to that conclusion. what type of cloner are you using? Some aerocloners pumps will heat the water up to much and cause this problem. I had a small 8 site daisy cloner that would do this, I had to put the pump on a timer on 15 off 15 to keep the water from getting to warm.
I use a rumple cloner. This last batch I used no nuted and pool shock. Roots were all bright white and looked great. Temps were Prolly around 78*. I used indirect lighting and got more root mass and less vertical growth. Could be a DO issue? For veg and bloom I have a 60w industrial pump w/8 available ports. Im running 6 buckets per pump. I buy every air stone I find. Im not impressed with any of there performance. I honestly don't know what I should be using. Im investigating light leaks as a culprit. I built skirts and covers for every bucket. Swapped the water out. Lowered water temp to 68 and still had "blooms" of this shit. Im researching diatoms or nematoads as an option as well. Seems I just can't kill it. No matter how sanitary I try to be. Sorry I have been to busy to sit down at my pc to post. Thanks for the replys guys!!
are you sure its not a chemical reaction? exactly what nutes are you using now and in what exact order are you mixing them????? nutes are separated for a reason and the nute with the most calcium is suppose to be mixed last if your adding Cal/Mag it should be added first then the nute with calcium should go last... its a wild guess, but your plants look good your just fighting some sort of slime and with temps that low you should have no problems.. so its the light leak issue(doubtful seeing your grow space and how over the top you are-this is a good thing) or its got to be a chemical reaction
This is what I do. -ro into 55g drum -ro into either mixing bucket or feed red -mix an sensitive cal up to 100ppms -mix an sensi grow a -mix sensi grow b -mix b52 -ph to desired number -add beneficial bacteria tea Or if im adding h202 I don't add the tea and I ph after adding the h202 vs before like when I add tea. The bennes are harmed by ph up/down h202, ect so I try to keep the diversity I've just created. I have noticed the roots in my aero cloner and my new experimental dwc cloner have really boney roots and are solid white. Then never got even a hint of brown. Neither have nutes in the water. But the clones that just hit my 3g dwc veg buckets lost there honey root system and just have strands of roots. Both share the same water, same hydroton same tea. Only difference besides environment is nutes and air stone placement. Me confused.
its the tea... it has to be diluted when you add it to the soup... it causes the problems even after its been flushed.... its just the breaks with using tea... if you feel comfortable remove the tea for two weeks and see if the problem goes away... also once you start H202 you cant stop the use... it usually causes problems in DWC... usually the responses are "holy hell slime came back super crazy"..... with some small searching you will see what im talking about on both the H202 and the tea... pic one and keep it running....
[quote name='"Tihspeed"']its the tea... it has to be diluted when you add it to the soup... it causes the problems even after its been flushed.... its just the breaks with using tea... if you feel comfortable remove the tea for two weeks and see if the problem goes away... also once you start H202 you cant stop the use... it usually causes problems in DWC... usually the responses are "holy hell slime came back super crazy"..... with some small searching you will see what im talking about on both the H202 and the tea... pic one and keep it running....[/quote] I agree its the tea
The tea is the only thing so far (in bloom) to fix anything. With out it, I have tons of brown (either brown algae, pythium or diatom blooms) and helps stabalize ph. Every time, except last time it has been made with out tea. This is the only tine I started day1 in veg with tea. I quickly switched to h202 to kill it. I noticed they lost a bunch of green though. They also haven't been growing. Im going to start a new experiment where I clone and pr-veg them to about a foot tall in rw in a flood table. Once there established, ill try to transplant to dwc. Im open for suggestions at this point.
Also, if u go to threads about benne tea. It makes everyones roots Soo massive, boney, lots if hairs ect. MUCH MUCH more then not having bennes. As I see you guys are suggesting my loss of root hairs are from the tea? I have been up to my ears in ph issues prior to the tea. Everyday I was getting a full point ph swing. Now, finally, its pretty solid. Before I was adjusting everyday, I had no life. Now, its going up .1 a day. I can finally get stuff done, get to work on time, not piss my wife off, ect. Thats the only good news thus far.
im a super fan of the tea bro... im convinced every grower ends up going organic in the end... its just a better product... more work up front then everything is just dialed in... i wish i knew more local growers so I could do this off their examples that being said... either go with the tea or don't... i wouldn't be all over the place with H202... I don't think you should be using it unless you HAVE to... and like previously stated, once you start with the H2O2 you have to continue use the entire grow... I've looked at everything you've got going... it has to be the fact that your using the tea, then jumping to the H202 then back to the tea... thats alot of work man... how bout just a simple run of GH3part or AN's 3 part... something simple to see if you end up with the same sludge... if your soup temps are low... and trying to rock a organic material and H202 your bound to have some sort of problems.... all opinions of course, i could be wildly off... but its the most obvious answer at this point.. but if you stick to your guns im sure you will find the source of your problems
Well I got some slime in my reservoir when I was running An with the biologicals.. But the root mass was fine and bright white until they grew into the screen and I could not peek anymore... I'm a firm believer in KISS (Keep it simple stupid)... So I would have to agree to use one KISS soup according to directions... I never liked mixing nutrient company's products.. I'm not a chemist so I would not know the ramifications as you may get too much of one thing, not enough of another... Use what the company suggests, if it does not do the trick or what you want, change to another nutrient company...
[quote name='"jakesterjammin"']Well I got some slime in my reservoir when I was running An with the biologicals.. But the root mass was fine and bright white until they grew into the screen and I could not peek anymore... I'm a firm believer in KISS (Keep it simple stupid)... So I would have to agree to use one KISS soup according to directions... I never liked mixing nutrient company's products.. I'm not a chemist so I would not know the ramifications as you may get too much of one thing, not enough of another... Use what the company suggests, if it does not do the trick or what you want, change to another nutrient company...[/quote] Im in serious need of some help man. You seem to know this system well. Would you be willing to help me via pm?
Advanced nutrients has been having some problems. Bad Kushie kush, bad bud factor X, bad voodoo juice, ect. The Calmg grow has been as much as triple strength lately. Check new bottles for proper ppm when first opened vs old bottle. Here's a pic of 3 different bottles of bud factor X, straight off the shelf at the hydro shop. Good luck