The Wandering mind of a Revelationary

Revelationary · May 22, 2011

This will be a compilation of my thoughts. Don't be afraid to speak your mind, good or bad.

11.10

Fighter said:

Do you believe people from other religions, atheists, agnostics, and any other category you can think of will go to hell?

If yes, does it mean that the kindest person alive or someone with pure and strong morals will be damned to hell for eternity because he chose not to follow, for example, Christianity or Islam?

If no, then why are you part of your religion if there isn't a consequence of not being part of it? What makes you want to belong to your religion over any other?

Also, when I say belong, I mean actually follow the religion. I was born into a Christian family but can't say I am one anymore after the fact that I don't go to church or follow many of the things you should, so I don't belong to the religion, I essentially use it as a guide for my life by following its principles but not so much their practices.

I'm not debating whether or not God exists or which religion is better, I am just wondering what people think of the end result of what we are putting so much faith into.

[quote name='Revelationary']Well I see your are getting no responses other than people who would want to know what you want to know so even though I don't necessarily subscribe to a religion I think I'm about as close as it gets.

I am a Christian in the fact that I follow the teachings of Christ, but personally I do not even consider Christianity a religion. I lean more towards the Abrahamic GOD but I find truth in all religions that preach love compassion and self progression. I don't believe that atheist or anybody else who does not believe what I believe is going to hell. I feel that this is a perversion of the true teachings of Christ and people who believe that they are going to heaven simply because they confess with their mouths that Christ died on the cross for their sins are lazy and misguided. I choose the path I choose simply because it works for me. To say there is no reward in the lifestyle I choose is very far from the truth, everyday I become a better person not for anyone else but for myself, and that itself is reward enough for me afterlife or not. I know I am probably not the person you were looking for to answer this question, but truth be told you don't come around the religious types you're looking for very often on GC.

Edit-
I feel if mainstream Christians read the bible as it was supposed to be they would not hold many of the beliefs they do today. I feel modern day Christian are severely misguided and narrow minded.
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11.10-The Solar System and You

Observing our solar system I have noticed it has a striking resemblance to each individual person. I will break these observations down and explain the relation they have to each of us.

Part 1

There are 3 main components of this giant person known as our solar system: The Sun, The Moon, and The Earth. The Earth is our body or the the medium through which everything takes place. The Sun and The moon are the Earths eyes giving light and perspective upon the happenings that occur on it. The Sun is the Eye of the Soul or the Mind, and the Moon is the eye of the body or the Brain.

The Moon Revolves around the Earth just as the Brain revolves around our body. The Earth Revolves around the Sun just as our body revolves around our Mind or our true self. Therefore the Moon also revolves around the Sun or the physical perspective revolves around the mental perspective. The Moon works for both the Sun and the Earth therefore it is the median between the to just as the brain works for the mind and the body and relays messages between the two.

The brain is a Reflection of the light of our true self but without the mind the brain is useless. Just as the Moon is a Reflection of the light of the Sun, and without the Sun the Moon emits no light.

In all: The Sun is the eye of our higher consciousness or our true self it is far away yet ever present, the Moon is the eye of the brain and is here with us governing actions that take place on the Earth and reflecting the light of the higher conscious upon the Earth, and The Earth is where the magic happens.

Part 2

There are 7 stars in our sky that also reflect the light of the Sun upon our Earth. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. The ancient greeks and romans referred to these stars as gods because they governed certain aspects of our life. Our body has 7 chakras or 7 aspects of consciousness that govern aspects of our body. I will show how these stars correlate to these chakras.

Mercury- Was known as the messenger to the gods, this correlates with the crown chakra. Messages from the will of the mind are relayed to the brain who in turn relays it to the rest of the body and vice versa.

Venus-Goddess of love, beauty, and intuition, this correlates with the third eye chakra. Our third eye is how we get deeper sight into the world around us allowing us to be able to have that feeling about things, or to know something that you don't know. Our natural eyes are how we find love and interpret beauty.

Mars-God of War, this correlates to the Throat chakra. To state something is a god is to say that it has complete command over something. So Mars must have complete command over war. War starts in the throat, not being able to hold ones tongue is the quickest way for a conflict to arise. On the otherhand being able to show restraint in your words will keep you out of conflict. Hence the title God of War.

This is the end of the terrestrial planets. Once the terrestrial planets end you come to the asteroid belt. Significance? After the throat you leave the Head of the body and move down into the trunk. After the asteroid belt you get to the Gas Giants or the trunk of our solar system.

Jupiter-Master of the Gods, this correlates to the Heart Chakra. When the heart stops beating all the other chakras fade away which would make the heart the Master. Hence the title Master of the Gods.

Saturn-Known as the god of agriculture and strength, this correlates with the solar plexus chakra. Strength enters the body through the food we eat by the stomach, which is why he is the god of agriculture and why this chakra is in the solar plexus region. This is also the core region of our body where most of our strength is found.

This is where it gets a little tricky. Uranus and Neptune cross each others orbit in space. The last 2 chakras, Sacral and Root chakras, begin to overlap in their function. I will try to explain as best I can but due to the close relationship between the two its hard to say what governs what.

Uranus-God of the sky, this correlates with Sacral chakra. Uranus is most closely associated with the night sky. The night sky being a metaphor for the brain with out the light of the mind or the Sun. The Sacral chakra governs emotion and unconscious desire, especially sexual. In other words bodily cravings without the control of the mind. The serpent in the Garden of Eden is said to have actually been this chakra, due to its appearance which resembles a coiled snake.

Neptune-The God of the Sea, this correlates with the root chakra. As far as Neptune goes it gets vague. I normally look at the sea as a reference to blood but that will not fit here. The only thing I can see that might work is the sea possibly being a reference to sperm, but I do not see how this could fit for a female so that thought is incomplete. I will have to delve deeper for this one. As far as the Root chakra goes this chakra governs bodily instinct. It is the seat of kundalini or in other words the bed of the coiled serpent.

Conclusion

This is merely an observation I have made. I am aware that many of the details are debatable, but the basic observational comparisons are undeniable. If one chooses to accept this model one can come to the conclusion that the mind is indeed seperate from the body, and that it is our mind which gives life and purpose to our body just as the Sun gives life and purpose to our Earth and Moon.

Any criticism or additions for the sake of understanding will be greatly appreciated. I will also clarify any part for anyone who needs it at my own discretion. If you have any observations you have made such as this please share for I feel observing the world in which we lives is the greatest path to understanding ourselves.
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12.10-Convo with PoBlow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal Blowfish
For clarity: I am agnostic, and will be assuming that gods can exist for the purposes of this post.

I'm going to have questions for the followers of codified religion here. That means if you have a book that you claim is somehow arranged by God and rules and laws you live by that all the followers of the same religion also have to live by, I have questions for you. And I suppose this won't be for you if you follow a religion that somehow does not require you to worship or prostrate yourself to a god.

I follow the Bible mostly, but I would love to read into other religious books. Everything I say is self realized. I do not worship GOD nor do I prostrate myself to him, but I will respond anyway.

Quote:
I have heard a lot of things about this alleged god, so you'll have to correct any misconceptions. The most popular things I hear are that god is good/love, god is all powerful, all knowing, perfect. I intend to examine these claims against the behavior that such gods demand of their followers.

Worship. Why does god need this? If it is all powerful, it can force you to worship. If it is all knowing, it knows before you're born whether you will worship. It will know whether you'll truly revere it or simply follow like a slave the religion of your parents. And if it is perfect, it has absolutely no use for the adoration of a mortal. The requirement to worship (especially in some public way) smacks of vanity and insecurity - what use could a god possibly have for my envy? And if it is vain or insecure, then we can hardly say that it is perfect, all powerful, or all knowing... and its goodness is also called into question.

I found myself asking the same questions, my conclusion was that GOD does not need worship and it is foolish to believe otherwise.

Quote:
Evangelism. How does this help god? Firstly, it's unnecessary especially at this point in time - everyone is pretty familiar with the major religions, even if they remain somewhat ignorant of the particulars. Secondly, it produces friction with other religions, a competition that distracts from whatever the teachings are. If a true god exists, I think the last thing it wants is people fighting over which idea of its manifestation is actually true. Lastly, the ultimate goal seems to be one of vanity, spread the word far and wide to as many as possible about the requirement to feed god's vanity through worship. This goes beyond simple vanity, for the motives here seem to be contrary to the emotional core message of peace and love, producing division and animosity instead.

I believe all religions that preach love, compassion, wisdom, and unity are that of the same GOD, for a Christian to war with a Muslim, or for a Muslim to war with a Hindu, is like a brother fighting his own brother over what color shoes they are wearing. In my eyes the ultimate goal is to spread the word of GOD through action to attain wisdom from experience.

Quote:
Free will. Does god want us to have free will? If it does want that, then why would it write down in a book rules for us to follow? Why would it make himself known in the first place, knowing that the revelation of its existence would change how mortals view their own lives? I continue to believe that the most likely reason for the revelation of the divine is to alter the universe's destiny, which is not consistent with an all-knowing creator god and therefore probably the motive of some other entity with supernatural power. If you're starting to wonder if I'm implying that religion might be the work of "the devil," you can stop wondering: I am.

I don't care what Christianity teaches, in my eyes the Bible is a book written by mortal man, who were subject to mistakes and misinterpretations just as I am. The word of GOD is not spoken nor written, but is acted, the Bible is a good guide to begin to understand the message of GOD (just as any other religious book) but the search for GOD does not end there. And in my opinion I do not believe the Devil to be a personified being. The Devil is D'Evil or the Evil deeds acted out by mankind. But, who's to say what is Evil, right? You are, if you perform a deed that goes against who you are as a person for the sake of personal gain you are selling a part of your soul, or your true self and this is an evil act imho.

Quote:
Consider this: what if the entire reason that god gave you the ability to reason and understand logic was so that you could use these skills to avoid a spiritual pitfall, such as the impersonation of the creator by an adversary? Suppose that is the entire motivation for our free will. Do you really know god? Or do you only know what you've been told or what you've read? Are you a slave, or are you in control of your own destiny?

I considered this a while back and it caused me to reject everything I was taught about GOD and seek him for myself, and since I have done that I have never been happier. I know I have a long way to go but I feel as if I am on the right path.

Quote:
Is religion compatible with mysticism? Why were the gnostic gospels banned? What happened to the sufis, and do they have no influence in Islam? Why do there seem to be so few deists left? I believe that religion came to us in order to put a permanent stain on god, and am tempted to believe that gnosticism/mysticism was god's answer. It makes the most sense to approach god personally, the least sense when it is someone else's idea. I have been told so many times to let Jesus into my life, when what I should be told is that if I look inside myself and find evidence of the divine, it could be the first step in my personal relationship with god. Scripture hasn't changed in millenia, while mysticism can be as modern as we need it to be as an expression of the now instead of shadows from the past.

Modern religious leaders like to push ideas like these across as the works of the devil, this is hurtful to our society if you ask me. New and refined ideas will lead us to a brighter future, the same old ideas will lead us to repeat the same mistakes.

Quote:
Hypothesis: If god exists, religion exists to turn people away from knowing it. Followers of religion persecute followers of other religions, people who do not follow the same code presented in their scriptures, and anyone who wants to ask serious and reasonable questions of beliefs. Do followers of mysticism do these same things? Not that I have witnessed.

Personally I don't believe religion exist to turn people away from GOD. I just believe that the power of religion has been realized and abused by the powers that be for so long, that we no longer know what true religion is. I ask this question, if religion is capable of this much bad in the wrong hands, then how much good would it be capable of in the right hands?

Quote:
I'd like to invite the religious to defend religion. I'd like to present one last challenge, however. Put down your scripture. Try to defend your religion rationally without reference to the scripture. Answer these charges using your thoughts and without recycling ancient words or the words of others.

Lol, I don't know how people can remember scripture so well, but I couldn't quote scripture if my life depended on it, though I could paraphrase very well.

Quote:
Why should we be religious instead of mystic?

It's up to each and every one of us individually as what we choose to be, we should now allow outside influence to keep us from our hearts desire.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal Blowfish
I'm curious why you identify as Christian. Are you saying that you went to Christ and he spoke to you, or are you saying that you began with Christian beliefs, then rejected the code and reaffirmed the core beliefs? I'm asking because I'm not convinced that any given religion has a monopoly on god, and to identify one while taking a mystical tack is a little confusing. Don't get me wrong, though. It's refreshing to see a modern "gnostic" (term might not fit perfectly on you, you can decide), as it would be to hear from a Sufi or a deist. I just have the nagging suspicion that in the end it will not matter how the mystic is identified - all of them will be talking about the same thing.

In fact, as I think of what your journey must have been like, I think of Al Ghazali. He began as a Muslim with doubts, quizzed all the authorities he could find, found Sufism and then returned to Islam after concluding that the only way to know god was through personal experience. What has never satisfied me was his return to the religion of Islam when it always seems like Sufism should have been enough. You may not have returned to Christianity, but you identify that way. So what about you, is your spiritual identity because of practice or because of experience?

I identify as a Christian, because Yahshua Messyah also known as Jesus Christ intrigues me. I view him as a big brother and he is the example I choose to follow. I don't hold his teachings higher than buddhist teachings islam teachings tao teachings etc., because I feel they are all the same, but on my path I must keep some kind of focus so I chose Christ. In all honesty I do not like labeling what I am because it restricts what I am capable of believing to the masses. Honestly I was brought up Christian, but although my parents spoke of GOD they never really forced anything on me. I was too strong willed to go to church every sunday and always found a way out, or just slept through it (while feeling like a sinner of course). GOD has always been apart of me but after rejecting the bible as completely false and churches as immoral I had to seek GOD in my own way. It turned out to be worth it in my eyes.

Also, I would like to say one major reason I identify as Christian is because of the standards I hold myself to when living my life. I try to handle situations as I believe Christ would have. I don't always succeed but I always try.
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3.11

YEM said:

Alright GC, hear me out.

I find it unbearably incredible just how personal almost all life situations are. It blows me away to think how practically no one knows that I even exist. A few hundred people have been in my neighborhood and know the whereabouts, under a hundred people have seen my house from the inside out, a handful of people have met my entire family and only a few have decided to stick around. Comparably, all of us are so alone and I think from this aloneness springs the personal.

You enter a room with one person sitting there...you and this person are the only witnesses to what happens between you two, no one else. It intrigues me how many moments I find in my day that are not unlike this, this stranded naked aloneness. And so to a sense, I can see how just personal most things are. Let's say you are driving down an interstate, you and the bundle of cars around you are the only ones that know what is going on around at that very moment. People half a mile back have no clue, let alone the people in Japan, so there is almost always this intensely present experience that is shared between life almost no matter where you go.

I suppose the only place where the impersonal comes in is just how transient all these experiences are in nature and also a sense of comfort in a familiar situation. People working at a drive-thru can be rather impersonal just because they've talked to hundreds of people that day. So instead of being a human, you are perceived as just another number for them, another passing face they could give two shits about.

So where is the place for the personal in the impersonal? What of warmth when all that is projected is bitterness? What has happened to people's attitudes toward each other since the rise of business?

[quote name='Revelationary']I think about this at work all the time. I'm a sales man so I often have to quickly build relationships with people whom I have never met. I look at these people and realize that at the moment they are the most important people in my life and sometimes I even get the feeling that I have known them my whole lives. Once they leave I realize I don't even know their names, and had they not seen my name tag they wouldn't know mine. I will never again see them, and on the off chance I do see them again I won't know it's them because I won't remember their face. They mean everything to me and nothing to me and as much as I smile in their faces and try to make them comfortable in all honesty I have no regard for them outside of my job.

Now let's look at it from the other end. I walk into walmart and I deal with this lady who deals with me as I deal with my customers. She speaks to me politely and treats me as if I'm important but her mind is obviously elsewhere. I'm just passing through walmart but I realize that she has probably been there a few hours at this point and still has a few hours left to go, only to go home and return again the next day. Walmart has no true significance to me, but to her it's an integral part of her life. Thousands of faces pass through a day, but you can count on seeing her behind the register. We may recognize her, but to her there is no way to recognize all of us because of the sheer numbers of impersonal relationships she builds with people each and every day.

I look at this as my dual identity, there's a work me, and a real me. People at my job only see the work me and often confuse that for the real me, but in reality there is a me outside of the workplace that has problems, and stress, and relationships, and plans, and goals, and favorites, and peeves. There is a me that is just another variation of you, but behind my name tag that can't be seen because people see my purpose in that.

Edit- I didn't even delve into the middle ground of coworkers, the ones who get a taste of the work you and real you.
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KirbyPuckett · May 22, 2011

I've only read your take on christianity so far, so I'll have to read the rest later. I just wanted to say I couldn't agree more! I use to be an atheist that thought, if god is real, which religion was right? Man was I naive.. lol. Now that I have realised our universe/nature IS god, I realised there pretty much ALL right.

The main thing to take from each religion is intentions. They all teach what can help make this world survive in "heaven". Many atheists instantly see religions as one big fairytale, but they miss the point completely. You don't even have to agree there is a god to see there true intentions are positivity.

Like I've been saying a lot around here lately, I think people really just don't understand what the bible is "preaching". (especially christians) The worst part is, they are in such denial, that I don't think they'd accept it when you try to explain it. Christianity has mastered the fear tactic as well as the government. These two forces of "power" are what need to be set straight by the people. But first, they have to awake from the haze so they can see straight.

budsmokn420 · May 22, 2011

Great post!

I haven't read it all yet, but I love it so far.

Peace bro

Revelationary · May 22, 2011

Thanks for the love and support. I still have a few more entries to add I'm just too lazy to find them atm. I'll also be adding some new original stuff when I get the time so please keep up the comments and share your thoughts, you don't have to agree with me or even be nice.

babooshed · May 22, 2011

Keep it up. It was a great pleasure reading your heart-filled posts. Don't stop listening! Cheers.

Revelationary · Dec 8, 2011

*update*

Excerpts from How the Bible was meant to be interpreted by Fatbluntsyo

quote:
\t\t\t\t\tOriginally posted by areskenux
proverbs 3
34 surely he scorns the scornful,
but gives grace to the humble.
35 the wise shall inherit glory,
but shame shall be the legacy of fools.

god is just, you reap what you sow, i believe he is speaking in terms of this life, the grumpy old man is grumpy because of the lessons he got due to his approach towards life, while the content old man is content due to his lessons and approach. I will not speak on the afterlife because i know nothing of the afterlife. The wise shall inherit glory speaks of coming generations. A wise nation will produce wise offspring and will have a prosperous future. A foolish nation will do shameful things, and so will the offspring they produce.

quote:
\t\t\t \t\t\t\tPsalm 49
12 nevertheless man, though in honor, does not remain;
he is like the beasts that perish.

13 this is the way of those who are foolish,
and of their posterity who approve their sayings. Selah
14 like sheep they are laid in the grave;
death shall feed on them;
the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning;
and their beauty shall be consumed in the grave, far from their dwelling. \t\t\t \t\t

the message i see here is times change. Foolish ways will not last, for wise men will come along from time to time and change the way things are done. Nimrod was once great but he is now dead and his city is nothing but a historical footnote, the same goes for genghis khan, shaka zulu and many other great rulers. Old fashionable ways are now dead and are looked at as ridiculous in many cases in modern times. Today our pop culture is relevant and seems invincible but rest assured one day our pop culture will be dead and foolish. So will our government, and so will everything else that is foolish. Concepts that have withstood the test of time are wise concepts such as civil rights equality justice liberty, these concepts are the upright that is being spoken of and in the morning when the new day arises and the slate is washed clean these are the concepts that shall remain time after time.

quote:
\t\t\t \t\t\t\tProverbs 12
14 a man will be satisfied with good by the fruit of his mouth,
and the recompense of a man’s hands will be rendered to him.
15 the way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
but he who heeds counsel is wise.
16 a fool’s wrath is known at once,
but a prudent man covers shame. \t\t\t \t\t

i like this one. It seems to speak on narrowmindedness. A man who can only see things one way, his own, will not find truth. When the way he views life is questioned he will go into a rage showing his foolishness. But, a wise man will not only listen to the thoughts of others, but he will actively seek advice, in an effort to obtain the truth. If the wise man is wrong he will seek to amend his ways for the future.

quote:
\t\t\t \t\t\t\tProverbs 30
11 there is a generation that curses its father,
and does not bless its mother.
12 there is a generation that is pure in its own eyes,
yet is not washed from its filthiness.
13 there is a generation—oh, how lofty are their eyes!
And their eyelids are lifted up.
14 there is a generation whose teeth are like swords,
and whose fangs are like knives,
to devour the poor from off the earth,
and the needy from among men.
15 the leech has two daughters—
give and give! \t\t\t \t\t

not so sure about this one, maybe it is referring to what happens when a foolish nations offspring come of age. That foolish nation has produced foolish offspring that holds no respect for the spiritual mother and father as well as the natural mother and father, a nation that is blinded by its own transgressions believing that all is well when in truth all is abomidable. A nation that consumes ravenously at the cost of the less fortunate and the have-nots. If this is what this verse means then i personally would say its pretty accurate, but then again i have always found the old testament to be accurate. \t\t
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quote:
\t\t\t\t\tOriginally posted by areskenux
proverbs 1
1 the proverbs of solomon the son of david, king of israel:
2 to know wisdom and instruction,
to perceive the words of understanding,
3 to receive the instruction of wisdom,
justice, judgment, and equity;
4 to give prudence to the simple,
to the young man knowledge and discretion—
5 a wise man will hear and increase learning,
and a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,
6 to understand a proverb and an enigma,
the words of the wise and their riddles.
7 the fear of the lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
8 my son, hear the instruction of your father,
and do not forsake the law of your mother;
9 for they will be a graceful ornament on your head,
and chains about your neck.
10 my son, if sinners entice you,
do not consent.
11 if they say, “come with us,
let us lie in wait to shed blood;
let us lurk secretly for the innocent without cause;
12 let us swallow them alive like sheol,
and whole, like those who go down to the pit;
13 we shall find all kinds of precious possessions,
we shall fill our houses with spoil;
14 cast in your lot among us,
let us all have one purse”—
15 my son, do not walk in the way with them,
keep your foot from their path;
16 for their feet run to evil,
and they make haste to shed blood.
17 surely, in vain the net is spread
in the sight of any bird;
18 but they lie in wait for their own blood,
they lurk secretly for their own lives.
19 so are the ways of everyone who is greedy for gain;
it takes away the life of its owners.
20 wisdom calls aloud outside;
she raises her voice in the open squares.
21 she cries out in the chief concourses,
at the openings of the gates in the city
she speaks her words:
22 “ how long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
and fools hate knowledge.
23 turn at my rebuke;
surely i will pour out my spirit on you;
i will make my words known to you.
24 because i have called and you refused,
i have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 because you disdained all my counsel,
and would have none of my rebuke,
26 i also will laugh at your calamity;
i will mock when your terror comes,
27 when your terror comes like a storm,
and your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
28 “ then they will call on me, but i will not answer;
they will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 because they hated knowledge
and did not choose the fear of the lord,
30 they would have none of my counsel
and despised my every rebuke.
31 therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
and be filled to the full with their own fancies.
32 for the turning away of the simple will slay them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will dwell safely,
and will be secure, without fear of evil.”

-----------------------------

i know it's long, you don't have to go one by one, maybe just a summary or the moral.

fatblunts i ask that you interpret this passage before you read my interpretation. I want to be sure i can compare our interpretations in their truest form to maximize the learning potential, and i'm sure you would want the same.

That said: The passage begins by stating the benefit a wise man will bring to society. The simple or those who do not put much thought into their day to day life will become prudent and begin to analyze what's really going on weigh their options and make careful decisions to ensure the greatest success in all their endeavors. Knowledge to the young speaks of the skills they can pass on to the next generation such as building a house or more relevant to modern times how to program a computer. Discretion to the young speaks on the rebellious nature of teens and young adults and our tendency to do what we want without regard to consequence, the wise will show us to think about our actions find out how to read a situation and act appropriately as to what the particular situation calls for. He who understands will attain wise counsel means, he who understands will be able to accurately advise others in their lives.

Hear the instruction of your father and do not forsake the law of your mother both have double meanings. The first standard meaning is exactly how it is read, but to look deeper i understand that hear your father is speaking on that little voice deep inside you that helps steer you along your path, do not forsake the law of your mother speaks of the earth show respect to the natural order of things do not abuse our great terrestrial mother.

He goes on to speak on fools and sinners, and how the reward of their ways are temporary and superficial. You should not allow people who live their lives based on ignorance and pure bodily urge to sway you, for they will succumb to a life of pain and heartache brought on by their own hand. He speaks of wisdom calling outloud to these type of people. This is referring too the constant presence of people who seek liberty, justice, love, unity, and compassion, people who seek the most out of society. The ways of those that are foolish and ignorant will continually die off and while their numbers are high at the present time, especially when compared to those who can be considered truely wise, wisdom is timeless and will never die out, while folly and ignorance will constantly die off just as quick as it rises.

Tried to keep it a little simpler. If anybody would like me to explain or go deeper into any part i will be glad to do so. Also, i'm very willing to discuss anything also and would welcome any further insight or differing viewpoints with a smile and the most intelligent conversation i can muster up. \t\t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olesmoky
I might have one for ya...

St. Timothy 2:11

A women should learn in quietness and full submission do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved throught childbearing if they continue in faith love and holiness with propiety.
I'll take a shot at it. As I read this entire verse from the Bible I can't help but get the feeling Timothy was doing what is being done here in this thread, which is interpreting the teachings of Christ as he sees it. The Bible has spoken on the womens place as a helpmeet on numerous occasions and that seems to be the applied knowledge of this verse. While I personally do not agree with it I get from it that Timothy is placing the status of a woman under a man due to the events that took place in Eden. Some how the woman being beguiled to partake of the fruit has made her an incapable teacher and forfeited her place as an outspoken fully functional member of society. Bearing the future generations of man is her only hope for a reprieve from GOD.

Personally I would say that Timothy's interpretation of Christ teachings as they pertain to this verse, though well meaning, were misunderstood and this does not represent what Christ truely stands for.

Ok, here's my verse: "And Jehovah said unto him, What is that in thy hand? And he said, A rod. And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it."

Fatblunts this is a great thread definitely +1 worthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olesmoky
So God's messengers misunderstood his message? Why didn't god clear that up if the book his messengers were writing was to be the creed for every man who follows it? See to me, these 'misunderstandings' by the messengers are just as much god's fault as anybody else's. Sounds like somebody was a lazy Larry. [smoke] "Ah shit... Timothy's getting this all wrong... Ah fuck it, *sparks joint*"

When I read the bible I get a story of self exaltation. I suppose GOD fought our battles while we were in Eden but since we made the choice to consume the fruit the rest is up to us. The sad fact of humanity is that people will misinterpret things, Timothy being a human being was no exception. While Timothy may have shown an uncommon ability for the word of GOD than your average man he was still subject to being wrong. And I would agree to say that it is GODs fault but I doubt we mean it in the same sense. I say it meaning that GOD and his mysterious plan is the reason why things are happening the way they are and unfortunately that means that we must take the good with the bad, but I believe that this is the only way to achieve the results which GOD desires whatever they may be. And I look at the Bible as a guideline to truth but not the absolute authority on it. We must look at all aspects of life to find the true truth, not to this one book.

When reading what I say you must understand that I am one man and this is one mans perspective. I may be right, I may be wrong but from where I'm standing this is how the world we share looks. And I would like to hear how it looks to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olesmoky
I was simply pointing out that, and you agreed, god messed up in a way. So god not really setting things in stone... By letting a human interpret the messages delivered, he should have known there would be misinterpretations and of course flaws. With the obvious flaws in the bible, how can he hold anybody... say an atheist, be responsible for their actions or lack there of? With how confusing, contradicting, and wild and out the Bible is, surely god would understand our lack of interest in bowing to god? [Wink]

God is a badass name for the creater isn't it? [smoke] God, god, god, god just fits ya know.

No I have never agreed that GOD has made any mistakes, because he has not. Of course GOD knew there would be misinterpretations how could an Omniscient being not know. It doesn't take a god to realize that humans are some misguided creatures and are going to make a bunch of mistakes before they get something right. I believe that GOD put together his plan based around the flaws of humanity and from our perspective it seems wrong, cynical, and incomplete, but from where he's sitting its absolutely perfect and in time we will see that. I don't know what you will make of this but I will respect you enough to atleast tell you and you can take it however you see fit I will not hold anything against you, but I had the same question about atheist and everybody else who doesn't believe in Jesus for that matter seeing as according to the religion I was being fed all those who don't say Jesus died on the cross are doomed. Too easy for Christians too hard for everyone else if you ask me. It's hard enough getting someone to admit they're wrong. But GOD spoke to me and told me he knows what he is doing. I don't care what any religious advocate says atheist have a very strong argument, and honestly how can you expect someone growing up in the times in which we live to believe in GOD. Science has gave us more clear cut answers than GOD everhas and us being entities of material observation it goes against our nature to believe in what we can not observe with our senses. So why would GOD hold atheist responsible for making an intelligent observation about the world in which they live. That is not a just GOD therefore he does not act in that manner, for GOD tells us that he is just. To truely understand GOD you can not look to outside sources, including the Bible, while these can aid in your journey they will only get you halfway there and any thinking man will not be content with only completing half of the journey and will quickly dismiss GOD. To know GOD you must seek him yourself through observations of the world around you, through your own personal relationships and experiences, and you must ask yourself if there is a GOD how would he behave. If you look to someone else to prove GOD to you it will never happen you will fall short everytime because this is not the manner in which GOD wants to be found. Timothy can only tell us who GOD is to him unfortunately Timothy only has one perspective and that is where his downfall lies. I apologize for such a long post honestly I could go on about this until I die from exhaustion. If you would like to speak on it further I would be glad to but if not no hard feelings.

Personally, though I use the name GOD, I think this is a primitive way of thinking of the Creator and our supposed Father. It creates a badass image in my head more of a vengeful Zeus hurling a lightning bolt than a loving Creator.
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