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Intelligence, Consciousness and Awareness


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#1
ete23

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When does consciousness begin? And when does that conscious become aware its conscious? When it is intelligent enough?

#2
dirtydingusus

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right before the infinite cycle breaks down....

consciousness is the moment that cycle become aware of itself and its own useless redundancy...
and begins to break down...to change the pattern..in hopes of finding something new....

only to find another damn cycle.....

Intelligence, Consciousness and Awareness are in the end nothing more then knowing that we are all circling the drain....

#3
Faded Skies

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Consciousness, like 'life' is not an on/off thing. We get this image of the on/off thing from noticing that death seems to switch it off, permanently, and it cannot be revived. But that does not mean that either consciousness or life *developed* suddenly. It only means that current living organisms need a constant flow of energy to *maintain* consciousness, so that flow can't be interrupted.

So it is impossible to pinpoint a moment in development (either in evolution, or in development of an individual human being) where consciousness starts. It more correctly *emerges* as a gradual process. Neither a sperm nor an egg cell are any more "conscious" than any other cell in your body. Likewise a fertilized egg cell (fusion of egg and sperm) ... it is no more "conscious" than a skin cell or a nerve cell. Over the course of gestation the brain develops the structures needed to support consciousness, but it is an ongoing process. It is even hard to say whether a newborn human baby is even fully conscious. We have no way to measure consciousness except by way of interracting with it ... which can't happen until a baby is able to start communicating beyond instinctual cries.

So there is never a 'poof'. Not as far as we can test...

#4
Entropywins

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When does consciousness begin? And when does that conscious become aware its conscious? When it is intelligent enough?


You need to define consciousness before you can answer these questions.

#5
TheJourney

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Consciousness is, by its very definition, aware. It doesn't need to label itself as consciousness. IT IS consciousness

#6
Entropywins

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Consciousness is, by its very definition, aware. It doesn't need to label itself as consciousness. IT IS consciousness


Then why are you labeling consciousness, if it doesn't need to label itself? You have yet to make much sense in your statements from what I can see.

#7
ete23

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Consciousness has an inherent awareness to it. Without being conscious the being couldn't be aware. By being aware and knowing its own awareness it can learn from experience and build progression in its life.

#8
esseff

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The question is, what is it you are conscious of?

Consciousness in and of itself is far too vague a concept - we know we are conscious because we have something to be conscious of. But what we're conscious of depends so much on so many factors that what I'm conscious of may be nothing like what you are.

#9
ZarexJr

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When does consciousness begin? And when does that conscious become aware its conscious? When it is intelligent enough?


Once higher levels of the brain develop. Ill break it down like this.
Man to lower mammals have reasoning. Man is obvious, monkeys can compartementalize tasks like using a short stick to pull a longer one towards them to use to get food far from a cage. Mice have limted reasoning, they know that if a wall is between them and cheese, they must go around it.
Most animals learn, but learning with reason is absent except in primates. Squid can learn, through trial and erro, that certain fake crabs in experiments have shocks. Dogs can learn to paw a lever for food, turn the box and they paw the air. Monkeys can move the odd shape in a group and understand concepts that are abstract. It takes about 1500 trials but they learn. Aritmetic comes easy to them, mental math, and they do almost as good as humans on it.
Instinct; absent in man almost entirely and for monkeys it is social things like grooming. Other animals, no need for an explanation.
For reflex and taxis, man has suckling as one of his only reflexes. Flinching too. Monkeys as well, balance and muscles reacting to pressure on soles In lower mammals and so on, taxis rules their behavior.

SOOO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN. Well its clear that after one hits primates, instincts are not as common, numerous, or controlling. Reasoning and learned behaviors determine their actions more than reflexes and insticts in lower organisms? WHY? The more intelligent an animal, the less it relies on automatic responses. The more intelligent, the more complex and highly structured an organisms brain is. Less reliance on primal (no pun intended) areas that rely on flight/fight, emotions, agressiveness, etc.

SO WHAT IS CONSCIOUSNESS? At a certain level, an animal reacts to its own enviormnet in a dynamic way. Almost all dogs will react the same way to loud sounds (breeds may differ), primates may be curious and investigate, become terrirtorial and stay alert, ignore it, or run. Primates are aware of changes, constantly aware, and they LEARN FROM EXPERIENCES. TO BE CONSCIOUS IS NOT SIMPLY TO BE AWARE OF THE MOMENT, BUT OF THE PAST. YOUR PAST. ORGANISMS ARE ALL CONSCIOUS, BUT PRIMATES ARE TRULY SO BECAUSE THEY ARE FULLY AWARE OF THE PAST AND USE IT TO CHANGE REACTIONS. The dog example shows lower mammals do not recognize that a lever is gone so they shud stop. Reasoning is absent, limited, and thus they do not think to apply last times results to a new situation different from the past. Teach a monkey how to use long sticks to grab food. Fix food onto a ceiling, only removable if pulled. Leave boxes nearby. Not only will our friend discover that the stick is useless, he will infact GET THE BOXES AND STACK THEM TO GET THE FOOD. Monkeys also recognize their reflection, at least some do. :D :smoking:




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