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Organic Sulfur Sources?


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#1
CommanderInReef

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My mothers appear to be becoming P and Sulfur deficient. I'm wonder what organic sources there are out there. I believe you can use mushroom compost, but don't know if that varies by what the mushroom compost is actually made from. Does anyone know of any 100% organic sources out there? I'm borderline ready to just use some Mother Plant chem nutes on them just to make sure they don't get worse. Please save me from this evil abominable thought.

Edited by CommanderInReef, 22 February 2011 - 05:34 AM.


#2
Chunk

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#3
CommanderInReef

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Howdy Commander,

Check out K-MAG for your sulfur concerns. It is also a great source of soluble magnesium and potassium. Good stuff all the way around.

cheers,

chunk


Sees like 22% is really high sulfur content. Shouldn't I be using something along the lines of 2-3%?

...also where would one even purchase the stuff? Do you have to buy direct?

Edited by CommanderInReef, 22 February 2011 - 05:33 AM.


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Chunk

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#5
CommanderInReef

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K-Mag is also marketed as Sul-Po-Mag and is found at garden centers or even on Amazon. sul po mag

If you're concerned and want some more subtle sulfur ideas, either Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) at 13% sulfur or Gypsum (calcium sulfate) at 17-20% sulfur.

In my experience, the K-mag is my hands down favorite.

cheers

chunk


Thank you for your prompt help and awesome quality information!

#6
CommanderInReef

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What kind of a top dress application rate or foliar application rate would you suggest with this product? The moms are in #2 Smart Posts. ...just seems like it would be easy to overdo it and hinder my Cal uptake.

#7
FormerLumperDaw

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Sees like 22% is really high sulfur content. Shouldn't I be using something along the lines of 2-3%?

...also where would one even purchase the stuff? Do you have to buy direct?

CommanderInReef

1 tablespoon in 1 gallon of water is an uber safe application rate. This mineral (which looks like rock salt) is soluble - mostly. Shake the jug every time you walk by it and in a day or so you'll be able to spray your plants or apply to the soil. A cheap (like under $10.00) air pump from China Mart and a $.75 airstone will have you ready to go in 10 hours or so. Starting out with boiling water is helpful as well.

Anyway on to your question about the levels of Mg, K and S............

From the Sul-Po-Mag web site is a good explanation on the percentages of the components in this mineral product.

What is the difference between Mg and MgO in Sul-Po-Mag?

The magnesium content of Sul-Po-Mag is expressed as 11% in elemental magnesium (Mg) and about 18.5% when expressed as magnesium oxide (MgO). From the early days of chemical analysis, the traditional way of expressing chemical content was to do so in the oxide form, e.g., MgO. Mathematically, the 11% of magnesium in Sul-Po-Mag is 66% greater when the weight of oxygen (O) is added to the Mg. This does not change the amount or percent of elemental magnesium (Mg) present. MgO is simply another mathematical way of expressing the same thing.

What is the difference between S and SO4 in Sul-Po-Mag?

Sulfur (S) and sulfate sulfur (SO4) differences are explained just like Mg and MgO. The sulfur (S) content of Sul-Po-Mag is 22%. When it is expressed in the oxide form, oxygen's presence increases the sulfate sulfur content to between 63-66% as SO4. As with magnesium, the actual content is not changed by using different mathematical methods of expressing it.

HTH

LD

#8
CommanderInReef

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CommanderInReef

1 tablespoon in 1 gallon of water is an uber safe application rate. This mineral (which looks like rock salt) is soluble - mostly. Shake the jug every time you walk by it and in a day or so you'll be able to spray your plants or apply to the soil. A cheap (like under $10.00) air pump from China Mart and a $.75 airstone will have you ready to go in 10 hours or so. Starting out with boiling water is helpful as well.

Anyway on to your question about the levels of Mg, K and S............

From the Sul-Po-Mag web site is a good explanation on the percentages of the components in this mineral product.HTH

LD


Thank you LD. Always appreciated!

#9
CommanderInReef

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CommanderInReef

1 tablespoon in 1 gallon of water is an uber safe application rate. This mineral (which looks like rock salt) is soluble - mostly. Shake the jug every time you walk by it and in a day or so you'll be able to spray your plants or apply to the soil. A cheap (like under $10.00) air pump from China Mart and a $.75 airstone will have you ready to go in 10 hours or so. Starting out with boiling water is helpful as well.

Anyway on to your question about the levels of Mg, K and S............

From the Sul-Po-Mag web site is a good explanation on the percentages of the components in this mineral product.HTH

LD


LD

Would it be AOK to also add NH Liquid Fish to the K-Mag? No adverse effect? Also should the K-Mag be pH'd, or left alone and just used as is?

Another off question...what do you pH your soil drench at vs. your foliar? Both at 6.5? Foliar a higher pH?

Also, to be trying to correct a Phosphorus deficiency, where should my dirt pH be?

...I really wish I had someone local that could teach me how to read leaves better...

Sorry for the barrage of questions.

TIA

#10
FormerLumperDaw

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LD

Would it be AOK to also add NH Liquid Fish to the K-Mag? No adverse effect? Also should the K-Mag be pH'd, or left alone and just used as is?

Another off question...what do you pH your soil drench at vs. your foliar? Both at 6.5? Foliar a higher pH?

Also, to be trying to correct a Phosphorus deficiency, where should my dirt pH be?

...I really wish I had someone local that could teach me how to read leaves better...

Sorry for the barrage of questions.

TIA

CommanderInReef

K-Mag (Sul-Po-Mag, Langbeinite, sulphate of potash - pick your name!) cannot and will not have any effect on your soil's pH - looking at the components in this mineral will explain that easily. Of the 2 components, Magnesium & Potassium are base alkalis (meaning that they can accept hydrogen ions). And remember it's Hydrogen (H) that is the 'H' in pH.

Sulphur when broken down by the soil's microbe colonies releases a carbonic gas (2 Oxygen atoms bound with a single Carbon atom) as well as Hydrogen (H) which can, if needed, be used by the soil's microbes to raise the pH in the rhizosphere.

As far as pH goes I've never tested anything for the pH other than when fermenting plant material (FPE or BIM). My experience has been that a soil, using solid ingredients will negate the need for monitoring pH.

One of the problems with testing a soil on an ongoing basis is that bacteria colonies and fungi colonies prefer different pH levels which are adjusted by the exchange of cations that are directly affected by the elements being freed from bonds (like the Carbon © and Oxygen (O) components in Calcium Carbonate). You could test your soil in the morning and find that the pH is elevated and without you doing anything you might find a far lower reading in the evening. This has to do with the relationship(s) between the fungi vs. bacteria colonies. When the bacteria colonies explode like when you apply a food that they love like alfalfa tea or (God forbid I'm typing this) molasses - then the fungi take over and begin to devour the weaker bacteria colonies which causes the drop in the pH.

If you feel that you're having major pH issues then I would be looking at my water source. Water quality ranges across the board in the US. The standards are fairly minimal and not too helpful for people growing plants in containers. To say the least.

HTH

CC

Edited by FormerLumperDaw, 23 February 2011 - 04:38 PM.


#11
FormerLumperDaw

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CommanderInReef

Applying a combination of chelated minerals in a viable humic and fulvic source will do wonders for your soil's pH.

A product that I use and some others here at GC is BioAg TM-7 and the TM is for Trace Minerals and 7 being the number of specific micro nutrients it contains.

Apply 1x per week - religiously - and you'll be able to retire your pH pen once you get your water source dialed in.

CC

#12
CommanderInReef

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CommanderInReef

Applying a combination of chelated minerals in a viable humic and fulvic source will do wonders for your soil's pH.

A product that I use and some others here at GC is BioAg TM-7 and the TM is for Trace Minerals and 7 being the number of specific micro nutrients it contains.

Apply 1x per week - religiously - and you'll be able to retire your pH pen once you get your water source dialed in.

CC


The past two waterings I have used RO water. I just also ordered myself a really nice Growonix GX300 system that will be installed soon and will be my new source of water rather than bubbled city water. The plants seem a little healthier looking in their new growth. Still waiting for the Sul-Po-Mag to show up.

Today they got some Bio-Biz Root Juice, Cal-Mag Plus, Neptunes Harvest Liquid Fish and ThriveAlive Green. pH'd in today at 6.3 and came out at 6.8. So my soil pH seems to still be high. Hopefully the NH Liquid Fish will help with what could be a P deficiency ...it's numbers are 2-4-1 + Thrive Alive Green 1-1-1.

Could I successfully use a combo of the following two products as a replacement for BioAg TM-7? Would it essentially be the same thing. What I have been using currently is Root Juice from Bio-Bizz (Kelp & 2.2% Humic Acid - 0.1-0-0.1)

Fulvic Acid
Fulvic Acid Concentrate

Humic Acid
Humic Acid

#13
CommanderInReef

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CommanderInReef

Applying a combination of chelated minerals in a viable humic and fulvic source will do wonders for your soil's pH.

A product that I use and some others here at GC is BioAg TM-7 and the TM is for Trace Minerals and 7 being the number of specific micro nutrients it contains.

Apply 1x per week - religiously - and you'll be able to retire your pH pen once you get your water source dialed in.

CC


OK, I've been doing some reading here about BioAg TM-7 and VAM & Activator...now that I have a better understanding of what some of these things are, I'm impressed. Do you just buy direct from them and what products do you use from them for what purposes?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. I know you're a plethora of information on these things, and I a sponge...extra absorbent. I live for organics now that I've dove in head first.

#14
FormerLumperDaw

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OK, I've been doing some reading here about BioAg TM-7 and VAM & Activator...now that I have a better understanding of what some of these things are, I'm impressed. Do you just buy direct from them and what products do you use from them for what purposes?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. I know you're a plethora of information on these things, and I a sponge...extra absorbent. I live for organics now that I've dove in head first.

CommanderInReef

You can buy direct from them and the prices reflect your landed cost, i.e. no S & H charges.

Having said that, the national company which control a great deal of the indoor garden centers (National Garden Wholesale - a division of SunLight Mfg. and in some kind of unholy alliance with HydroFarms and someone else) - at any rate BioAg cut an incredible deal for distribution to their clients, i.e. the local indoor garden store.

I can actually buy it cheaper at the local grow store than I can ordering it direct. And that's BEFORE the usual, unimportant and obligatory 'Good Bro Discount' afforded to anyone that can walk and mumble at the same time.

In one of the cannabis grow magazines, Maximum Yield, one of the scientists at BioAg penned an article on how to consider which humic acid product to buy - "The Real Dirt on Humic Substances"

You'll probably find it an interesting read.

HTH

LD

#15
Chunk

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