High all, what is the most accurate way to ph coco? I am having a constant battle with ph ever since I mix my coco/perlite with dolomite lime at the rate of 1 tblsp/gal. Everybody said not to worry about run off ph, but when you flush your 2 gal media with almost 20 gal of RO water ph 5.8 with run off reading still @7.4 you know you have a problem... I have measured my coco ph with "proper" method too. Took some coco from middle of pot, mix with little water and ph the mix, and well it reads very close to run off ph which is still @ph 7.2 Eventually I have to dump lots of phosphoric acid to the RO water to get the ph down to 2, and dump that solution with approx 2 times the volume of the pot to get run off ph and coco ph to acceptable 5.6-5.8 range....On top of that I dump another RO solution with nutes 2 times pot capacity to neutralize the excess phosphoric acid.... Try doing that with 3 pots in a day... What's the matter here?? Everybody said coco rarely exhibit ph problem, and it is fine to mix dolomite with coco, but my experience told me otherwise. I bought pre treated (leached) coco (forgot the brand but it was nicely packed), before use, I washed it really really well using meshwire screen and running HOT water to get run off ppm below 30-50 (from initial reading of 100), flush the entire thing 2 times capacity with RO ph to 5.8. But still I am fighting this endless battle against ph rising? What's the matter with coco?? Even my flowering plant on coco without dolomite have the same problem to a much lesser degree, not too bad and no lockout problem yet. Much less ph rise than the one with dolomite mixed but still rising... Please any advice are appreciated.. Cheers!!
You answered your own question. Why would you mix lime with coco? My coco runoff PH tends to go down slightly, never up. I don't use anything with my coco. 100% Botanicare Coco. Lime is meant to do exactly what it's doing to your coco, so I really don't understand why you used it in the first place. If I ever get a little too acidic. A very minor flush is all I need to get it back in line.
Well, I was referring to AskEd Coco guide when I setup my system and He swore by dolomite lime on His guide.... Seeing all of His successful grow, I followed blindly even when my logic told me otherwise.... I know I should've just followed my logic.
He suggests lime? That's very strange to me (I've never read his guide so it's news to me). Coco doesn't need anything to keep a stable PH. It just does it automatically. Coco is also a more hydro medium imo than a soil medium, and it does well using hydro's lower PH requirements. I usually PH my nutes to around 6.0 just because of the slight downward swing that I get. I wouldn't want my medium to ever be outside of 5.5-6.1. You might want to get a brand known to not have any issues as well. Botanicare and Canna are the 2 biggest ones.
Yes, read His guide and you'll see where He claimed to have an outstanding result with dolomite lime. I am supplementing with dolomite lime to counter potential calcium and magnesium deficiency problem as per His suggestion on the coco guide sticky.... My logic told me not to use lime at all and I have a thread asking about this in this sub-forum. The answers is somewhat vague and decided to try it anyway.. I was thinking if Ed guy with years of coco experience use dolomite and never mention ph problem, then it will work... Forgetting my logic... Boy was I dead wrong... No offence to MrEd but I think guide with misleading information and poster who is never around anymore to explain His theory or backup his statements should be taken off from sticky.... So many other coco guide out here, why stick with one obsolete and no backup guide...??
lol dude first off using lime with coco is ok.i ve read eds coco thread in the past and yes i do grow in coco.i use botanicare coco with 1 tablespoon of dolomite lime per gallon of coco.i also use some perlite,a tbsp of bat guano(only in veg) and a tablespoon of marine cuisin.nothing else.the lime isnt used for ph reasons..its used for the calcium magnesium deficiencies coco plants usually get bc they tear through that stuff and purpling of the stems is common.i rarely get any calcium or mag deficiencies and if i start noticing a purple tint on the stems i just sprinkle some dolomite lime on top. i also use majic cal continuously throughout the plants life. honestly i think its crazy you flushed a plant in 2 gal of coco with 20 gallons of ro water.i think your driving your self nuts.call me crazy but i never ph my water coming out..only going in and i ph at 5.8-6.3 and have good results
Who's nutrient lines are you using? Really, as many details as you can think of, will really help us to help you. Double checked your R/O source yet?
I only grow with Coco + Perlite mix. and using Canna Coco's nutes seems to fix the Cal/Mag issues i used to get. If i was ever to test the run off PH i would have killed everything i have attempted to grow. Just ph the stuff thats going in. and flush atleast once every 2-4 weeks(depending on the salt buildup) I think the run off should only be tested for PPM rather than PH.
yea the lime is for cal and mag and I'm using eds mix and the plants love it. when I got my new meter and was finally able to check ph ppm and ec I started monitoring the run off and I too was shocked at the high ph coming out and tried to correct to no avail and then I read somewhere that coco naturally rises in ph over the plants life cycle, and not to check run off . I think if ur plants didn't perish from ur ridiculous flush they were pretty close. I started using eds experiment cause I was tried of ph'ing my nutes up down up down with his mix all I have to do for veg is water with molasses water which when I take my ro water and add a tbl or so of molasses it ph's right to 5.8 5.9 now thats easy I keep some pure blend grow for back up. during bloom I have to ph the nute solution every time bummer.
yea i have grown for a while now and have never ph or even tested the runoff..at all.all i do is ph whats going in and im not even using ro water.i use tap water.the upside with using tap water is its hard for the plant to develop cal or mag deficiency especially when u also use majical and dolomite lime lol. i cant use molasses or any nute thats on the thicker side bc i water my gals through a small drip system and that stuff would clog up my lines and drippers in a heartbeat
just take an empty molasses bottle fill it half with water and a tbl of molasses cap it and shake for 10 sec at least and there you have it a solution that not thick and easy to work with and you should be running a cycle of clearex or similar product to avoid scale build you gotta think up which would take care of any molasses build up too. just saying, somethings you got to think out of the box to get the results your after. as for ph I have a buddy who doesn't ph at all period just adds nutes and pours, and gets football size nugs every time. I tried and my nutes same as his same ro drop my ph to 4.9 to 3.9 way too low . just my 2 cents
well if you just nute tap water and not ph your prolly cool cuz its prolly landing near 6.0.if you nute ro water your ph will be like you said..in the 4's bc ive found when making ro water it takes stuff out of the tap water that controls ph and thus it gets lowered somehow.ive never tried molasses but i use sucanat sugar throughout flower here and there. does molasses have a NPK value?
no he uses ro just like me same nutes dose everything. and I believe molasses does have a npk value but not sure what it is .
here I found this and thought it might be useful info. I'll post it in organics to. molasses is half way down the list. Alfalfa Hay: 2.45/05/2.1 Apple Fruit: 0.05/0.02/0.1 Apple Leaves: 1.0/0.15/0.4 Apple Pomace: 0.2/0.02/0.15 Apple skins(ash) : 0/3.0/11/74 Banana Residues (ash): 1.75/0.75/0.5 Barley (grain): 0/0/0.5 Barley (straw): 0/0/1.0 Basalt Rock: 0/0/1.5 Bat Guano: 5.0-8.0/4.0-5.0/1.0 Beans, garden(seed and hull): 0.25/0.08/03 Beet Wastes: 0.4/0.4/0.7-4.1 Blood meal: 15.0/0/0 Bone Black: 1.5/0/0 Bonemeal (raw): 3.3-4.1/21.0/0.2 Bonemeal (steamed): 1.6-2.5/21.0/0.2 No, but it would be a Brewery Wastes (wet): 1.0/0.5/0.05 Buckwheat straw: 0/0/2.0 Cantaloupe Rinds (ash): 0/9.77/12.0 Castor pomace: 4.0-6.6/1.0-2.0/1.0-2.0 Cattail reeds and water lily stems: 2.0/0.8/3.4 Cattail Seed: 0.98/0.25/0.1 Cattle Manure (fresh): 0.29/0.25/0.1 Cherry Leaves: 0.6/0/0.7 Chicken Manure (fresh): 1.6/1.0-1.5/0.6-1.0 Clover: 2/0/0/0 (also contains calcium) Cocoa Shell Dust: 1.0/1.5/1.7 Coffee Grounds: 2.0/0.36/0.67 Corn (grain): 1.65/0.65/0.4 Corn (green forage): 0.4/0.13/0.33 Corn cobs: 0/0/2.0 Corn Silage: 0.42/0/0 Cornstalks: 0.75/0/0.8 Cottonseed hulls (ash): 0/8.7/23.9 Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: Cottonseed Meal: 7.0/2.0-3.0/1.8 Cotton Wastes (factory): 1.32/0.45/0.36 Cowpea Hay: 3.0/0/2.3 Cowpeas (green forage): 0.45/0.12/0.45 Cowpeas (seed): 3.1/1.0/1.2 Crabgrass (green): 0.66/0.19/0.71 Crabs (dried, ground): 10.0/0/0 (I personally just crush the shells with my foot) Crabs (fresh): 5.0/3.6/0.2 Cucumber Skins (ash): 0/11.28/27.2 ( WOW!!!! Who knew???) Dried Blood: 10.0-14.0/1.0-5.0/0 Duck Manure (fresh): 1.12/1.44/0.6 Eggs: 2.25/0.4/0.15 Eggshells: 1.19/0.38/0.14 Feathers: 15.3/0/0 Felt Wastes: 14.0/0/1.0 Field Beans (seed): 4.0/1.2/1.3 Feild Beans (shells): 1.7/0.3/1.3 Fish (dried, ground): 8.0/7.0/0 Fish Scraps (fresh): 6.5/3.75/0 Gluten Meal: 6.4/0/0 Granite Dust: 0/0/3.0-5.5 Grapefruit Skins (ash): 0/3.6/30.6 (And people throw these things away? Wow!) Grape Leaves: 0.45/0.1/0.4 Grape Pomace: 1.0/0.07/0.3 Grass (imature): 1.0/0/1.2 Greensand: 0/1.5/7.0 Hair: 14/0/0/0 Hoof and Horn Meal: 12.5/2.0/0 Horse Manure (fresh): 0.44/0.35/0.3 Incinerator Ash: 0.24/5.15/2.33 Jellyfish (dried): 4.6/0/0 (Oh my goodness. I put the Jellyfish thread up as sort of joke but, here you go! Incidentally, I don't dry mine before adding them to the pile) Kentucky Bluegrass (green): 0.66/0.19/0.71 Kentucky Bluegrass (hay): 1.2/0.4/2.0 Leather Dust: 11.0/0/0 Lemon Culls: 0.15/0.06/0.26 Lemon Skins (ash): 06.33/1.0 Lobster Refuse: 4.5/3.5/0 Milk: 0.5/0.3/0.18 Millet Hay: 1.2/0/3.2 Molasses Residue (From alcohol manufacture): 0.7/0/5.32 Molasses Waste (From Sugar refining): 0/0/3.0-4.0 Mud (fresh water): 1.37/0.26/0.22 Mud (harbour): 0.99/0.77/0.05 Mud (salt): 0.4.0/0 Mussels: 1.0/0.12/0.13 Nutshells: 2.5/0/0 Oak Leaves: 0.8/0.35/0.2 Oats (grain): 2.0/0.8/0.6 Oats (green fodder): 0.49/0/0 Oat straw: 0/0/1.5 Olive Pomace: 1.15/0.78/1.3 Orange Culls: 0.2/0.13/0.21 Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: Orange Skins: 0/3.0/27.0 (Right up there with Grapefruit. Note: both can attract fruit flies so, bury them in the compost) Oyster Shells: 0.36/0/0 Peach Leaves: 0.9/0.15/0.6 Pea forage: 1.5-2.5/0/1.4 Peanuts (seed/kernals): 3.6/0.7/0.45 Peanut Shells: 3.6/0.15/0.5 (I grind them up in the food processor first) Pea Pods (ash): 0/3.0/9.0 (I cut them up with a pair of scissors while shelling them) Pea (vines): 0.25/0/0.7 Pear Leaves: 0.7/0/0.4 Pigeon manure (fresh): 4.19/2.24/1.0 Pigweed (rough): 0.6/0.1/0 Pine Needles: 0.5/0.12/0.03 Potato Skins (ash): 0/5.18/27.5 Potaote Tubers: 0.35/0.15/2.5 Potatoe Vines (dried): 0.6/0.16/1.6 Prune Refuse: 0.18/0.07/0.31 Pumpkins (fresh): 0.16/0.07/0.26 Rabbitbrush (ash): 0/0/13.04 Rabbit Manure: 2.4/1.4/0.6 Ragweed: 0.76/0.26/0 Rapeseed meal: 0/1.0=2.0/1.0=3.0 Raspberry leaves: 1.45/0/0.6 Red clover hay: 2.1/0.6/2.1 Redrop Hay: 1.2/0.35/1.0 Rock and Mussel Deposits From Ocean: 0.22/0.09/1.78 Roses (flowers): 0.3/0.1/0.4 Rye Straw: 0/0/1.0 Salt March Hay: 1.1/0.25/0.75 Sardine Scrap: 8.0/7.1/0 Seaweed (dried): 1.1-1.5/0.75/4.9 (Seaweed is loaded with micronutrients including: Boron, Iodine, Magnesium and so on.) Seaweed (fresh): 0.2-0.4/0/0 Sheep and Goat Manure (fresh): 0.55/0.6/0.3 Shoddy and Felt: 8.0/0/0 Shrimp Heads (dried): 7.8/4.2/0 Shrimp Wastes: 2.9/10.0/0 Siftings From Oyster Shell Mounds: 0.36/10.38/0.09 Silk Mill Wastes: 8.0/1.14/1.0 Silkworm Cocoons:10.0/1.82/1.08 Sludge: 2.0/1.9/0.3 Sludge (activated): 5.0/2.5-4.0/0.6 Smokehouse/Firepit Ash:0/0/4.96 (I put the ashes from my smoker in the pile) Sorghum Straw:0/0/1.0 Soybean Hay: 1.5-3.0/0/1.2-2.3 Starfish: 1.8/0.2/0.25 (I'm not saying: "Go out and decimate starfish populations at our local beaches" but, the odd starfish would be okay. Incidentally, the edndoskeletons of starfish are made of Calcium Carbonate which, is slow to break down.) String Beans (strings and stems, ash): 0/4.99/18.0 (Why we throw this stuff away? I have no idea. Look at all that potash!) Sugar Wastes (raw): 2.0/8.0/0 Sweet Potatoes: 0.25/0.1/0.5 Swine Manure (fresh): 0.6/0.45/0.5 Tanbark Ash: 0/0.34/3.8 Tanbark Ash (spent): 0/1.75/2.0 Tankage: 3.0-11.0/2.0-5.0/0 Tea Grounds: 4.15/0.62/0.4 Timothy Hay: 1.2/0.55/1.4 Tobacco Leaves: 4.0/0.5/6.0 Tobacco Stems: 2.5-3.7/0.6-0.9/4.5-7.0 Tomatoe Fruit: 0.2/0.07/0.35 (A note on tomatoe fruit: These should be hot composted. I just let any rotted or insect eaten tomatoes compost in the soil beneath the plants and have "freebees" come back each consecutive year. Hot composting will kill the seeds.) Tomatoe Leaves: 0.35/0.1/0.4 Tomatoe Stalks: 0.35/0.1/0.5 Tung Oil Pumace: 6.1/0/0 Vetch Hay: 2.8/0/2.3 Waste Silt: 9.5/0/0 Wheat Bran: 2.4/2.9/1.6 Wheat (grain): 2.0/0.85/0.5 Wheat Straw: 0.5/0.15/0.8 White Clover (Green): 0.5/0.2/0.3 Winter Rye Hay: 0/0/1.0 Wood Ash: 0/1.0-2.0/6.0-10.0 (A note on Wood ash: Wood Ash can contain chemicals that could harm plants and also carcinogens so, they should be composted in moderation) Wool Wastes: 3.5-6.0/2.0-4.0/1.0-3.5 THAT'S IT! THAT'S THE ENTIRE LIST.
I heard mixed opinion on adding dolomite on my coco, and I am paranoid about adding it now. Luckily my ridiculous flush did not result in disaster.... Now the same plant I flushed 10times the volume is flowering nicely with dank thick frosty nugs.... I found these method to fix my problem and rid off all my lockout issues... Maxibloom only at 1 tsp/gal Tap water at 90ppm (Hanna) PH 7.5 1 tsp epsom/5gal after I mixed all of the above, PH come at 4.2-4.5, then I raise the Ph to 5.5-5.6 with a high calcium DIY ph up solution. Here is how: Simply prepare an empty bottle, pour 2 tblsp of pure calcium hydroxide into the bottle, then fill the rest with tap water. Let it sit a few hours, the powder will settle on the bottom and you'll have perfectly clear solution on top very high in PH and extremely high on calcium. Pour that clear solution SLOWLY while into your mix to achieve your desired PH.... That way you only adding calcium into your mix, NOT the actual lime, therefore I noticed there is no effect on the medium ph... I have found this method to work wonderfully, super cheap and idiotproof too No more calcium or magnesium problem at all...
depending on what type and who makes it, but bhrer rabbit has a k value of 5 or 6% grandmas has 3% u can find bhrer at walmart
Why add lime? Lime is only going to push the PH upward and tend to buffer it close to 7. You guys make things very difficult! Coco isn't THAT MUCH different than other mediums. I never flush, I never worry about run off, I NEVER PH run off (because it's both unnecessary, and I don't have any). I PH the ingoing nutrient solution to ~6.0-6.2 for Veg, 5.7-5.9 for flower--and that's it. However, I DO use a Coco specific nutrient (House and Garden), feeding every day; thus, there's no need to worry about calcium or magnesium (or other) issues. I also use Botainicare ReadyGro, so there's no need to worry about having to flush the Coco before use. Here's 2 K-Train at 8 weeks flower: http://forum.grasscity.com/attachme...-seed-strain-review-smoke-report-000_0001.jpg http://forum.grasscity.com/attachme...smoke-report-ghs-k-train-8-wks.-flower-3-.jpg http://forum.grasscity.com/attachme...-seed-strain-review-smoke-report-000_0002.jpg http://forum.grasscity.com/attachme...-seed-strain-review-smoke-report-000_0004.jpg Bud
You don't ph coco. Ever; it will just go back to the same ph. Just go organic and don't worry about ph, or adjust your solution ph. Coco ph won't change...
what do you mean go organic. so your saying I should just take my ro water add nutes botanicare that drop it down to 3.9-4.9 and feed that to my plants thats what my buddy does and has great results. I'm just kinda scared. kinda seems like playing with fire. where's your proof I have never seen anything on not ph'ing what goes in. you and my buddy the only ones. got some pics of your grows.