4x4 tent, 1000w HPS w/cooltube, 4x DWC...first grow...White Widow and Deimos

Started the White Widow (seed a friend gave me from a hermie plant, hoping it's female) 3 days ago and the Deimos yesterday when my seeds came.

Ordered from Single Seed Centre and got:

1x Skywalker
1x Pineapple Express
1x Deimos
1x Sour Diesel
2x Afghan Kush Special (free)
2x Afghan Kush Ryder (free)

Seeds arrived in about 3 weeks.

The White Widow seed was started out via paper towel/tupperware method and the deimos was put straight into a cube ph'd to 5.8 with quarter strength veg nutes per this guide.

Was having temperature problems during my initial dry run before the seeds came but a friend suggested mounting the cooltube vertically and putting the fan on top of the tent. Doing that dropped my temps from 100F to around 82F, which is still a little on the uncomfortable side but I'll be getting a small portable A/C to pump into the tent when the weather starts warming up again.

Day 7

Relocated tent from garage to walk-in closet upstairs. Was having heat issues in the garage as I couldn't find a decent way to vent the hot air out. The temps were at a constant 85º and sometimes 90º.

The walk-in is an absolutely perfect setup; I have an A/C vent that I routed directly into the tent. The exhaust is going into a lung room also known as the central A/C closet. This seems to be optimal as the A/C intakes the hot air from the tent and gets it out of the tent area.

Temps are at a steady 74º-78º now.

The white widow's roots finally reached the water. I've bumped up the FloraNova Grow to 600PPM since the widow has started to show signs of either heat stress or potassium deficiency; two of its leaves are yellowing at the tips and working its way back.

Since upping the dosage from 300PPM to 600PPM, the yellowing is already starting to diminish after a few hours.

Deimos is chugging along a bit more slowly. Watering him once a day with 1/4 strength.

This is strictly personal opinion but I'd kill that hermie White Widow right now. The odds you gonna get a hermie plant from a hermie seed are too high for me to worry about pollinating one the plants you've grown from your purchased seeds.

On the other hand if you know that and are comfortable combing for male flowers then more power to you. Either way I'm strapped in for the ride along.

It also seems like a good idea to move the cooltube back to horizontal since you've got your heat problems under control. Seems you'd get a lot more lumens to your girls.

Let's do this.

Yeah I was planning on keeping a very close eye on the WW and if it seems like a male I'll chuck it but I'll consider pulling it completely.

The Deimos isn't growing nearly as quickly which is slightly concerning. I think I learned something the hard way, and please tell me if this is a common thing in hydro: the pH levels went up after 3 days with the 600ppm nutes from a 5.8 to 7.2. Had to add some pH down to both. Is this common? Is it from the plants drinking the nutrients out of the water and increasing the pH?

It seems the likely cause of the yellowing, which has gradually increased over the past 2 days, is lockout and from not getting enough potassium due to the high pH.

Also, not sure about the cooltube. I only did it vertical when the heat problems were bad as per a suggestion of an experienced friend. I need a light meter so I can check the difference between vertical and horizontal because heat isn't a concern any more. Stupid question: how many lumens is too many lumens?

Yeah I was planning on keeping a very close eye on the WW and if it seems like a male I'll chuck it but I'll consider pulling it completely.

The Deimos isn't growing nearly as quickly which is slightly concerning. I think I learned something the hard way, and please tell me if this is a common thing in hydro: the pH levels went up after 3 days with the 600ppm nutes from a 5.8 to 7.2. Had to add some pH down to both. Is this common? Is it from the plants drinking the nutrients out of the water and increasing the pH?

It seems the likely cause of the yellowing, which has gradually increased over the past 2 days, is lockout and from not getting enough potassium due to the high pH.

Also, not sure about the cooltube. I only did it vertical when the heat problems were bad as per a suggestion of an experienced friend. I need a light meter so I can check the difference between vertical and horizontal because heat isn't a concern any more. Stupid question: how many lumens is too many lumens?

Can't have too many lumens man, you are competing with the sun. :-)

Just seems like you'd get more direct light to your plant tops if it was horizontal and shining straight down.

On the pH I really don't know as my plants are in coco and I hand water them with no collection. It seems though that if your water is normally high in pH that it would creep back up as the nutrients were diminished due to uptake.

If it were me I'd just start checking it very often and try to get my tweak down. Good luck!

im still torn between destroying a plant throwing bananas....worse case scenario...let it grow and process for hash....no need to waste the work...looking good bro!

Ok so I just looked at the picture of your cool tube and I would DEFINITELY move that back to horizontal and I would also get a reflector for it to capture that light which will be going straight up.

There are several different kinds just google for cooltube reflector and you'll see. Just some suggestions man and I hope you grow comes out great.

The tube came with a reflector that I was advised to take off when I was desperate to fix the heat problem. I just set it on the top cause I had to cut off part of it so it won't reattach.

Anyhow here are a couple of closeups. What do you guys make of the yellowing? And the deimos has 2 leaves on the same side that are bending over funny yet theres no reason for it.

Edited by iStoner, 08 February 2011 - 02:55 AM.

Well the yellowing looks like N to me but I'm not an expert. Make sure your pH is 5.8 and check it often. Also your light looks a bit high. If you can't lower it then maybe lift the buckets on a couple of milk crates or something.

Basically if you can hold your hand at the top of the plants for 30 seconds and not get burned then the plants won't either.

Day 10

After pH'ing to 5.8 yesterday, it shot back up to 6.5-6.8. pH downed it again to normal.

I think I'm either noticing root rot or a collection of the FloraNova Grow built up on one of the roots of the WW. Was advised to put a little hydrogen peroxide in.

I have the whole line of Canna nutes on the way to replace the GH FloraNova. Should be here in 2 days. Includes Vega, Flores, Rhizotonic, and Cannazym. Been reading a lot about root rot using FloraNova Grow.

I pulled the two yellowing leaves off the WW; they were starting to curl at the edges. The rest of the plant looks like the picture of health.

The Deimos is starting to get little necrotic spots and I'm starting to think that side of the plant is always going to grow bent like that. Weird.

Could all of this be caused by the semi-high pH? The temps have been between 70 min and 82 max so I'm not thinking heat stress.

Can't really see any spots due to the color of the grow light. The leaf thing I think is fine. Right now one of my Jack Flash seedlings is completely retarded and has a few mutant leaves but she's still growing so fork it.

I use the Canna line myself but I use Coco.

Day 10

After pH'ing to 5.8 yesterday, it shot back up to 6.5-6.8. pH downed it again to normal.

I think I'm either noticing root rot or a collection of the FloraNova Grow built up on one of the roots of the WW. Was advised to put a little hydrogen peroxide in.

From what ive experianced these two go hand in hand... so it sounds like your on the right track. That Zyme will help too if thats the problem. If your ppm's are swinging too it might be needing more/less ppm's too. That can make the pH do funky stuff too. If your seeing clear edges on your roots... your seeing rot. GL with everything man... tagging along. :smoke:

Just went back and looked closer at that root shot. and the one off to the left is shoing perfect signs of the stuff. The whole thing should be just like the thicker part. That thin stuff is the rot.

Edited by anthony177, 09 February 2011 - 08:01 AM.

Day 11

Here's some more root shots. The color doesn't look quite right because of the HPS but do these roots look normal? I don't see "clear edges", i just see where some of the roots are clumped together there is a little buildup of brown goop that seems to be from the nutes.

It's only in one spot right at the middle, where the roots hit the waterline and all the bubbles hit the roots. I think a lot of the nutes get pushed right up into that spot from the airstones and end up clumping together. Granted its probably not good...but will not treat it until I swap out for the Canna nutes.

pH has been fairly normal. The Deimos seems to be drinking up the nutes more than usual as the pH was a bit higher than the WW this time around. PPMs are 550 in the Deimos and 650 for the WW.

Day 12

Got the Canna nutrients and switched both plants over. Attached my grow chart that I'm following religiously. Honestly noticing a difference in the general appearance of the roots already. It's obviously a much lighter solution but one of the big clumps of what I suspected to be root rot is gone now. Ah well, can't complain!

Also noticed that with all 4 things put together, the pH balances out at almost exactly 5.8.

I couldn't figure this out by poking around on grasscity but I hope this helps other BB users out there: the water height evens out to about 3 gallons. I measured it just to make sure I had my measurements right.

These Canna bottles are so cool!

Edited by iStoner, 12 February 2011 - 01:18 AM.

well sounds like youre going to be on the right track! setting back to watch your babies take off! youre putting them in flower already?

youre putting them in flower already?

No they're still on 18/6 for another 2 weeks.

Day 13

So I woke up this morning to find the pH jumped up from 5.8 to 6.6. Leveled it yet again.

Also noticed in the Deimos bucket, the water was becoming very sudsy almost like there's soap in the water when I know there isn't.

I gave the buckets a good scrubbing with water and bleach and let it dry before putting anything in it. I loaded it up with water first and it didn't look sudsy at all. Is this a common trait of Canna nutrients?

Also the roots are starting to look very brown in both plants now. The WW's bottom-most leaves are starting to yellow just like before.

Where am I going wrong? So confused. Will post pics tonight.

From what ive experianced these two go hand in hand... so it sounds like your on the right track. That Zyme will help too if thats the problem. If your ppm's are swinging too it might be needing more/less ppm's too. That can make the pH do funky stuff too. If your seeing clear edges on your roots... your seeing rot. GL with everything man... tagging along. :smoke:

Just went back and looked closer at that root shot. and the one off to the left is showing perfect signs of the stuff. The whole thing should be just like the thicker part. That thin stuff is the rot.

you dismissed this the first time... maybe now you will take it seriously.

A slight yellowing of the roots is normal with alot of different nutrients. The biggest thing you need to look for in the roots is a sliminess. And they should be kinda firm, and bouncy when you move them a little.

I noticed on a post on the last page you said something about leaves drooping... and then getting necrotic. and you said "but there is no reason for it". Um, i promise that something is making them do it... and its not just a freak thing. If the conditions are not right... plants show sign of stress. its that simple. Plants that have no reason to wilt, burn, droop... dont do it.

So i will say it again... If the same strand of root is two different sizes, colors, texture... your looking at some sort of root problem. The symptoms, the pics of the roots, are all tellng me that this is the problem. It is possible to have some healthy looking roots... and positive growth even with a rootzone problem. and i think this is whats got you shaking your head.

To fix this what i would do is empty the bucket, and fill with a water/zyme or water/peroxide solution only. When i do this i use Gold Zone and water. But dont just fill up the bucket and put the lid back on. put the plant on the empty bucket.and fill through the hydroton. put the whole 3-4 gallons through that way... drain the bucket again, and refill with 1/2 strength nutes for a couple days... then bump it if all is going well.

I hope all gets under control. I have had my share of the pH swings... and its always a root problem.

Thank you for the detailed response. Initially I figured the yellowing and necrotic tissue was from the light being too close. Heat really was a problem until a few days ago. 1000w really seems like it would stress these plants out if it was too close.

Sounds like you're right though - probably a root problem. I will do as you advise and flush with the zyme and water.

Should I let the plant sit in the water/zyme only solution before going half-strength? Or just use the water/zyme as the flush and then put into a new half-strength bucket?

Also how would you advise cleaning the airstones?

Thank you for the detailed response. Initially I figured the yellowing and necrotic tissue was from the light being too close. Heat really was a problem until a few days ago. 1000w really seems like it would stress these plants out if it was too close.

Sounds like you're right though - probably a root problem. I will do as you advise and flush with the zyme and water.

Should I let the plant sit in the water/zyme only solution before going half-strength? Or just use the water/zyme as the flush and then put into a new half-strength bucket?

Also how would you advise cleaning the airstones?

I just pulled my stones out yesterday and cleaned them in the sink like dishes... with soap. But thats only between cycles. I just rub the gunk off by hand every couple days while the plants are in them.

I think just the rinse should be sufficient. And go back to the half strength just after. I also forgot to mention that i would run the Zyme and micro's at full strenght as well as a B supplement... and the macros at half.