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Seeds from a hermaphrodite....


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#1
s1deout

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So my first successful* grow to harvest produced decent bud besides it having many seeds as well.

The grow originated from a single seed that I cloned into 3 plants and flowered. It turned out that the plant was both male and female which would explain how it pollinated and bred. I have a lot of seeds but i'm not sure whether i should use them considering their bloodline.



Does the fact that they came from a herm, mean they would produce herm chlidren?

Thanks?

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#2
T51K

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Im confused....I have been told this

if you have a seed that turn hermie and gives you seed, they have a 80% hermie trait
If you go from a clone (female) that turned hermie, you have femmed seeds...

I may have it backwards

#3
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Hermies produce hermies. Doesn't sound like it was a female force hermie so the trait should be passed on. I'm not sure they all will be hermie but they will have a much higher likelyhood to turn hermie. Now if you had a female clone and stressed it to the point it turned hermie then you would have seeds that will mostly be female. If you have a plant that wont stress into a hermie you have that's where real 100% fem seeds come from as the plant is a pure female. They then treat these plants with a chemical and pollinate itself (or a clone of itself) or another plant they wish to cross with.

Edited by yoctown, 08 December 2010 - 07:37 PM.


#4
The Green Bastard

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It really depends on if your seeds had hermaphrodite genetics or was forced to sprout nanners due to stress.

Genetic hermaphrodites will carry the hermie trait via genetics to the offspring since the hermie trait is dominant.

If the plant is stressed and produces male nanners that are not genetic, the offspring will be feminized. If a female produces male sex organs and pollinates another female the seeds will be 100% feminized. There will be zero males. They used to call them female seeds but had to change the term due to hermaphrodites that are not males, but arent female either.

now here's another interesting fact.... you say you grew out all the plants from the same mother. This means you pollinated your mother with itself. This creates genetic sisters. All of the seeds you have produced will exhibit the exact same phenotypes as your original seed stock.

I find the best way to test seeds for the genetic hemaphrodite gene is to grow them outdoors. Its much harder to stress a plant into hermie under natural conditions.

hope that helps.
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#5
kuroishinto

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I just finished reading an article Hank Van Dalen, founder of Dutch Passion Seed co. When they first started making fem seeds, it was simply done thusly:

Stress a female plant into producing male flowers, or waiting until late ripeness when male flowers become present. This is a 'last ditch' effort by the female plant to produce seeds. This pollen is then collected and used on a DIFFERENT female plant. The seeds from a self pollinated plant will be hermie. But the seeds from a different female pollinated by the hermie pollen will be feminized.

If I were you, I'd take those hermie seeds and plant them outdoors on some trail or something, a good hiding place. If they make it to harvest time, sweet! Free seedy weed. If they dont, no major loss.

#6
thesage3

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what if you have a strain and one plant stresses and produces males sacks, pollen saved and used on clones of same strain or females of different strain. will the seeds be hermie or fem?since its not pollen from the same plant literally but is from clone would it think its still the same plant. also I have a seperate strain from some really good bagseed. out of 15 sprouts 12 grew up 11 went to flower all 11 showed female preflowers now all 11 also have male sacks on them. I killed 9 of them the 2 I took clones from cause they showed traits I liked. I picked off all the male sacks I'm just wondering if anyone has done this and had success or am I wasting my time? I don't need the strain cause I have 3 great strains but I spent the time with them and would like to try to get something out of them

#7
growmorekush

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I bought a clone of lemon diesel. It turned out to be the dankest plant out of all the strains I grew. About half way through flowering I noticed bananas on first 1 bud then maybe 2 or 3. Then I noticed seeds growing after that but not many maybe 5 seeds from the whole plant. My question is, if I take these seeds and grow them, will they have the same traits as the mother? It wasn't really a big deal, the plant turned out extremely dank and I'm going to pop the seeds no matter what...just wondering what the chances of getting a hermie or a mongoloid are. The seeds looked healthy when they were growing so who knows. I'll check back with you later when I germinate them.

#8
OrangeHairz

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I just finished reading an article Hank Van Dalen, founder of Dutch Passion Seed co. When they first started making fem seeds, it was simply done thusly:

Stress a female plant into producing male flowers, or waiting until late ripeness when male flowers become present. This is a 'last ditch' effort by the female plant to produce seeds. This pollen is then collected and used on a DIFFERENT female plant. The seeds from a self pollinated plant will be hermie. But the seeds from a different female pollinated by the hermie pollen will be feminized.

If I were you, I'd take those hermie seeds and plant them outdoors on some trail or something, a good hiding place. If they make it to harvest time, sweet! Free seedy weed. If they dont, no major loss.

this is right. any seeds from a hermie are a hermie. any femal a hermie pollenates, will be female.

#9
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this is right. any seeds from a hermie are a hermie. any femal a hermie pollenates, will be female.

That is not true. Read up on genetics and you will understand. A hermie gene will still be in the genetics. I have posted quite a few things about how genetics work but others have posted better. It is less likely to see it but it is still very much there.

#10
The Green Bastard

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That is not true. Read up on genetics and you will understand. A hermie gene will still be in the genetics. I have posted quite a few things about how genetics work but others have posted better. It is less likely to see it but it is still very much there.


this statement is very true.

#11
Boggieman

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It really depends on if your seeds had hermaphrodite genetics or was forced to sprout nanners due to stress.

Genetic hermaphrodites will carry the hermie trait via genetics to the offspring since the hermie trait is dominant.

If the plant is stressed and produces male nanners that are not genetic, the offspring will be feminized. If a female produces male sex organs and pollinates another female the seeds will be 100% feminized. There will be zero males. They used to call them female seeds but had to change the term due to hermaphrodites that are not males, but arent female either.

now here's another interesting fact.... you say you grew out all the plants from the same mother. This means you pollinated your mother with itself. This creates genetic sisters. All of the seeds you have produced will exhibit the exact same phenotypes as your original seed stock.

I find the best way to test seeds for the genetic hemaphrodite gene is to grow them outdoors. Its much harder to stress a plant into hermie under natural conditions.

hope that helps.

Of all the statements this one is about on the money, breeders that make fem seeds correctly let a plant go past its prime until it throws out bananas, those bananas (once ready to pollinate) are collected and stored. Then the breeder grows a multitude of plants of the same strain, then they stress them until only pure females are left (they wont hermi no matter what stress except chemicals) they then apply the pollen to the pure female and you have feminized seeds. Their really is way more to it, phenotype being a major factor. No you cant use hermi pollen on clones from the same mother that hermied.

#12
The Growernator

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I just finished reading an article Hank Van Dalen, founder of Dutch Passion Seed co. When they first started making fem seeds, it was simply done thusly:

Stress a female plant into producing male flowers, or waiting until late ripeness when male flowers become present. This is a 'last ditch' effort by the female plant to produce seeds. This pollen is then collected and used on a DIFFERENT female plant. The seeds from a self pollinated plant will be hermie. But the seeds from a different female pollinated by the hermie pollen will be feminized.


So if you have clones all from the same plant and you stress one into hermy, can you use the pollen on just another clone or does it have to be from another plant entirely? Also, will plants from femenized seeds have a greater dispostion to produce more female seeds?

#13
thesage3

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a clone is the same as parent so basically the plant thinks it self pollenated resulting in hermie now if you started from seed and got 2 females of same strain the one you cloned hermied the one you didn't clone is the same strain but diff plant and would most likly produce fem seeds if pollenated with the hermie.

#14
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So if you have clones all from the same plant and you stress one into hermy, can you use the pollen on just another clone or does it have to be from another plant entirely? Also, will plants from femenized seeds have a greater dispostion to produce more female seeds?

The hermie gene is still there. If it is able to be forced hermie through the environment that means you are breeding that trait in which isn't any good. Find a 100% female (one that wont hermie under extreme stress) and treat it with the proper chemical or allow it to go extra time and use that pollen on a clone of itself (I don't know if there a really issues pollinating itself but it seems to be prefered just to take a clone and not really that much work).

#15
The Green Bastard

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a clone is the same as parent so basically the plant thinks it self pollenated resulting in hermie now if you started from seed and got 2 females of same strain the one you cloned hermied the one you didn't clone is the same strain but diff plant and would most likly produce fem seeds if pollenated with the hermie.


sorry, plants dont think and according to Mendel it will produce exact sister seeds. meaning the offspring will be the same as the seedstock you used to get the original mother plant. There will still be the same amount of possible phenotypes as the original seed stock. If the hermie gene isnt present than the fem seeds will not be hermie prone.

#16
Boggieman

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You dont want to use hermi pollen on the some plant, including clones from the same plant, and first of all you dont want to use a genetic hermi, you want a plant forced to hermi by stress, usually by letting the plant go past its prime.
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#17
GrapeStreet

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The Hermie Gene (H) is dominant. However, activation of the gene is possibly dependent on another genes activation (L). This would explain the different activation methods of the H- pheno, environmental or otherwise.


If your plant hermies without stress it would be the H-L- phenotype. (My Durban Poison is this pheno)
If it hermies under stress, it would be the H-l- phenotype. (My Cordiero is this pheno)
If it doesn't hermie under stress, it could be considered a "pure female" and would be hL or hl. (My NYCD is this pheno)

When Mendel allowed his peas to self pollinate, he got the 3:1 ratio consistent with an F1 hybrid. His peas are monecious, cannabis is dioecious so the comparison is not necessarily valid, but you could assume you'd get the same results with a hermied cannabis plant. If the parent was also a self pollinated hermie, the chances of a hermie are higher in the progeny than if the plant is an F1 cross of a hermie and a non hermie...

If a hermie pollinates another one of your plants, the results will be a Dihybrid F1 Cross of the two gene pairs. The initial ratio of 3:1 would apply to the H- pheno and the L- pheno, together giving you a 9:3:3:1 ratio, with the highest probability being that the progeny expresses the H-L- pheno, seconded by the H-l- and h-L- phenos. Neither of which are what you wanted. This type of set up will "drift" towards the dominant gene pair (H-L- or "always hermie" if the line is followed.

There is, still, the minor chance (1:15) that the recessive h- pheno will be present in your seedstock and you will have successfully bred Hermaphrodism out of an F1 hybrid of the two strains, which can be backcrossed with the original "pure female"to begin a line breed of the two strains, free of hermaphrodism, which can subsequently be used to backcross with the original hermaprodite to produce new combinations of genes within the lines.

As far as femminized seeds...I've no idea. That's a wholly different subject.

Edited by GrapeStreet, 19 February 2011 - 09:55 PM.

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#18
M G M T

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i dont know what most of you are talking about , but self pollinated hermies do infact produce feminized seeds .

#19
Thailord

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i dont know what most of you are talking about , but self pollinated hermies do infact produce feminized seeds .


Not true. The percentage to be female are higher, but along with that is the potential to hermie under even minor stress. Most of the places producing fem seeds use select female plants that have been subjected to extreme stress and not shown any sign of hermaprodite traits. Cuts from these plants are then reversed to pollinate other cuts. Even then, there is still a very slight chance of going hermaprodite. Even regular seeds will hermie under extreme stress conditions, this is why they test grow first and select a female that is not prone to hermaprodite. Some strains cannot be reversed b/c they are too prone to the hermaprodite trait. S1's are often prone to hermaprodite as well, however, those who work with, and make S1's often know their cuts. Bottom line, if you just grow out a regular pack of seeds and select any random female, and reverse it, you still have a small ratio of it going hermaprodite. There is no 100% promise of female seeds from any process. Any reputable breeder will tell you this. At best, given a perfect specimen, and perfect conditions, you will see 99%. Some say 99.9% which still leaves 1/1000 can hermie.

#20
AgMan

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Im confused....I have been told this

if you have a seed that turn hermie and gives you seed, they have a 80% hermie trait
If you go from a clone (female) that turned hermie, you have femmed seeds...

I may have it backwards


You're right.

If it is a natural hermire, depending on ploidy level you will get about 75% hermie plants and 25% pure female from the seed.

Edited by AgMan, 21 July 2011 - 05:29 PM.
clarification after find my books...



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