defoliating for HIGHER YIELDS

Discussion in 'Plant Training' started by ecsd, Sep 20, 2010.

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  1. Lol, yeah I saw that too. Must be a youngin.
     
  2. These guys dont even understand how plants grow...till they learn basic plant Botany they will stay where they are in growing....
     
  3. i've done experiments with humidity. if you don't want leafy plants, keep the area dry. the size of a leaf is directly proportional th the amount of humidity in the room. ive had the same strain for 15 years. depending on who's growing it, you can't even tell they're the same strains. stuff that is grown in soil is ALWAYS leafier though, no matter the humidity readings. i grow in coco, and mine are always less leafy than a friend. same lights. same everything else.
     
  4. I do think that by removing branches and future bud sites from the bottom of the plant, or debudding the plant and leaving the leaves in place you can concentrate the flowering energy to the flowers at the top of the plant. I will try to prove this by doing this to half of my plants in my current grow.

    i couldn't agree any more. take off all the lower half of bud sites but leave the leaves. i've been increasing yields constantly over the past year by doing this.
     
  5. #45 2lsc, Oct 2, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2010
    So it's okay to remove bud sites. Places that actually grow the flowers we want... But to remove the fan leaves, basically lettuce we just throw away, would be detrimental?

    Are you guys crazy? How can you espouse the one method you have tried and condemn a method you have yet to?

    The concept and the practice is very clear. By removing fan leaves the lower bud sites can develop into full branches because they are receiving direct light. The stress reaction causes an increase of growth hormones replacing the lost leaf mass in two days with more efficient leaves. Instead of a thin single branch you get a thickened branch with several smaller side branches. Instead of a canopy filled with oversized fan leaves you get a canopy of smaller fan leaves, still the same amount of light is trapped and used, but less of that energy goes to maintaining the size of the leaves (transpiration and transportation).

    The increase of places to grow buds, along with the increase in available light to those branches, drives better harvests. We are growing buds aren't we? For a second there I thought you guys were growing fan leaves. Keeping those and removing what you want.

    Seriously though, you guys should listen to yourselves. It's moronic. If you don't want your plant to waste energy on those lower sites then you should try allowing them to develop into something useful, and not destroying them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. What about grower like me? Can I work this method of taking fan leaves off into the method I'm already using.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced...trees-alive-indoor-growers-re-harvesting.html

    http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-g...-journal-led-lst-scrog-2nd-time-around-3.html


    I'm experimenting with rejuvenating harvested plants by re-vegging them. So far it's working good. Part of my method is leaving as many fan leaves on as possible. So the plant has enough foliage to regenerate through photosynthesis. During my normal vegging I do take off fan leaves blocking bud sites and any fan leaves that look wilted or damaged. I'm just wondering if this method might be a little too extreme to work with regenerating harvested plants?
     
  7. i would let the revegged grow leaves for a while...shes got alot of catchin' up to do....was gonna do this with one of my outdoor girls but the huge pots take too much vegg space...good luck..will be checkin ta see how it goes:wave:
     
  8. Some defoliated plants.
    Couple of weeks into veg.
    Reveged clones.
     

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  9. LOL...I just had written a 30min post but then took it all off......lol....lol...you guys go for it...lollolololl:hello:
     
  10. plants look great bro...nothin' like clones ;)really workin the lst..gotta couple of those grow thru plant holders lost in plants out back...think their still in there..lol:smoke:
     

  11. ALL my cuts come from a soil grower, i run hydro, and my plants are way fuller than his soil.
    next time im over at his place ill snap a few and post a plant as close to the same age as i can to prove this statement wrong.:rolleyes::smoke:


    after pruning my ecsd (among others) plants look the same as his soil plants
     
  12. i just read something go to the bottem of page 5 it was a university study

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...5piHDQ&usg=AFQjCNECBjsTWy5b2egDrCi-9mTImqj94g

    it says that that the apple trees half defoliated throughout its flowering cycle showed an average increase in solid fruit weight due to alot of starch it retained so if you do like op says you just might increase overall growth...
    The study on total defoliated trees was poor so thats a "please dont"... Best results were shown when it was more of a stagered defoliation like op stated

    +rep i just had to post this because i think this could help alot of gardens and i know i will be useing it for now on untill i get it;)
     
  13. nice find wopp3ijerk
     
  14. Chill on the name calling dude theres no reason to be rude. Bigger fan leaves produce higher amounts of sugars which greatly aid in the development of buds and should NEVER be removed. It's better to spread the plant out so that growth is concentrated on the top of the plant( basic idea behind SCROG and SOG). Lower bud sites that aren't receiving light should be removed so that the sugars can be concentrated on growing buds in the light rich canopy. A fan leave doesn't take up energy it produces it and powers the growth of bud sites all over the plant. I never have lower bud sites because I clip them and turn them into cuttings which is the best thing to do IMHO. If you enjoy maming and mutalating your plants go ahead but don't call other people morons for doing what's been proven to work the best and go smoke a joint you sound like you could use one.:smoke:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. ok...before i check in...whats the gear tonight...mouth piece...12 oz gloves and no head gear:eek:..lmao...come on guys ...were all tryin' to grow buds..its up to each grower to check the info he gets before he tries anything with his grow...sorta buyer beware...i dont think people are intentionally trying to give bad advice to destroy grows...yes the i know everything attitude pisses me off tooo when people come across like that..name callin is bullshit...........from what i get here is great points for both sides..wouldn't combining the two in some form to tweak the best of both be the objective...i love growin and for less than a year have learned a ton from gc..but i pick who i listen to and try to ask good questions...i cant believe the pissin' contests and wont post grow journals because i do things a little different and dont have all day ta argue when i can be growin' and gettin baked..i grow for me and in the end its me holdin the zips..its up to me to make sure they kick ass...still ...great stuff here and good passion...off my soapbox..sorry....peace deacon :smoke:..ps..i remove undergrowth buds and tuck or remove selected leave to expose budsights with good results
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. I agree 100% with u bro.
    This unnecessary pruning is unhealthy for the plant. Im a Biologist btw.

    The roots do not feed the plant. PHOTOSYNTHESIS and TRANSPIRATION. That is the function of the leaves. The roots take up the nutes and translocate them throughout the plant. ADEQUATE PHOTOSYNTHESIS must take place (glucose production) in order for the raw nutes to be "eaten" by the plant.

    Tucking is the only answer.

    This thread is a waste of a "true growers" time. And its bordering on plant abuse.

    + rep to u WhyGarden, for sayin it proud !!!

    Freak
    :smoke:
     
  17. We seriously need someone to run a side by side test on this, and post their results. Or better yet, a lot of people to run side by side tests. This should be pretty easily testable. We all passionately debate it, but it seems that it's all hear-say.

    I tend to lean towards the pro-defoliation side, but I really don't have any data to back up my opinion. No one else seems to have any hard facts on the matter either, just their personal opinions.

    I think we need a forum-wide effort to test this and put an end to the debate once and for all[​IMG]
     
  18. #58 Possuum, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2010



    I am with the ISPCAC.

    Who We Are: ISPCAC is the International Society for the Prevention of Cruelty Against Cannabis.

    What We Do: We encourage the healthy growth and development of cannabis through the art form of cultivation and manicuring cannabis plants.

    How We Do It: Left unattended cannabis will grow wild and unchecked. We carefully excise large fan leaves and undergrowth to promote the overall health and well-being of the of the cannabis plant.

    Where We Do It: In the close confines of indoor Closed Environment Agriculture

    What Can You Do: Practice the kind form of excising excess fan leaf growth. Report anyone who does not practice this kind art form to the ISPCAC. Leaving a cannabis plant unattended and left to grow wild indoors is both cruel and wasteful. Do YOUR part to promote the safety and health of ALL indoor grown cannabis by excising superfluous and unwanted plant growth.

    Do your part people. Don’t be cruel to cannabis. Trim that unwanted and unnecessary growth. If you grow indoors then take responsibility for yourself. The cannabis plant you are cultivating didn’t ask to be germinated – YOU germinated the seed, now be a responsible grower and take care of the plant YOU are growing. :D

    Peace at ya and on ya! ;)
     

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  19. #59 whygarden, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2010
    [quote name='DownShift']We seriously need someone to run a side by side test on this, and post their results. Or better yet, a lot of people to run side by side tests. This should be pretty easily testable. We all passionately debate it, but it seems that it's all hear-say.

    I tend to lean towards the pro-defoliation side, but I really don't have any data to back up my opinion. No one else seems to have any hard facts on the matter either, just their personal opinions.

    I think we need a forum-wide effort to test this and put an end to the debate once and for all[​IMG][/quo LOL...I am done you people that think this works...DO IT...LOL
     
  20. For the record I never called anyone a name. I used the term "moronic" not in refrence to any one people, but to a school of thought. It does not imply that the people who subscribe to these beliefs are morons. Simply misguided. If an idea is stupid it doesn't mean the holder of the idea stupid. Plenty of smart people have stupid ideas, so don't take things so personally people. I never called you a name, this isn't pre-school, act like a man.

    @Freakbro1 and WhyGarden:
    Your assertion is that by removing the larger fan leaves we are impacting the plants ability to absorb radiation, yes?

    My assertion is that by removing the larger fan leaf the plant no longer dedicates energy to keeping it cool, or transporting nutrients and water via the vascular system. There is no loss of light energy because it is now absorbed by previously unexposed leaves which are now receiving the direct light.

    Tucking a large fan leaf would require the plant still expell energy to keep that leaf healthy while it provides no further direct benefit to the plant. Essentially, a tucked leaf is dead weight.

    Thus by removing the larger, less efficient, fan leaves there is a net INCREASE in the plant's ability to trap and utilize energy towards the growth of bud sites; rather than the maintenance of oversized foliage. Several smaller leaves operate more efficiently and provide more food directly to underdeveloped branches. This further reduces the loss of energy as previously the plant would have to mobilize that energy from the large fan leaf, through the vascular system of the main stalk, and down to that branch. This way we get what we want where we want it.

    I know that after years of doing something one way it is hard to hear something that goes against all you thought you knew, but the proof is in the pudding. If this thread hasn't convinced you, here's another 100 pages from growers who take this method seriously Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

    Anyway, I'll have some nice pictures for everyone in about a week. I posted the last photos pre-training. I topped, I LST'd, and I scrogged, but all are defoliated. I defoliate again tomorrow (doing before and after pictures) and then in 4 days from then I'll post the rebound photo's to show the results. I know you guys want side-by-side, but if you've grown as many plants as I have without this method there really is no need to grow the other plant concurrently. I do side-by-side, it just happens that they are separated by a few months time of one another... The link I included has some of these grows though, so the burden of proof is not upon I.
     
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