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Never mentioned LST questions.


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#1
zq8s10

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I've searched this site, and googled for the past few days trying to comprehend proper lst, and keep finding the same one as our sticky.

I don't fully understand, how you have time to grow the plant a complete circle around a 10" pot before flowering, also, if as it grows, I tie the side branches down to the sides, wouldnt I be tying branches on top of branches if I grew the stalk in a circle around the pot and continued tying branches down? It only makes since? or should I just grow it to the edge of the pot, then start growing it to the side once I reach the edge and switch to flowering?

Also, not until reading a lot, I've never heard of untying the ties once you start flowering, do you do this to the whole plant and let them grow wild? When and wehre do you tie all the branches? Cause in the way people say do it, it seems like it would all mostly grow on once side of the pot because of it being tied to one side and all the branching going left and right off that side.

OR

Do you tie the branches to the opposite side you tied the main stalk to cover the pot more? Cause in the pictures I see the plants look to cover the whole pot, and get so bushy you can't tell whats tied where.

I guess I just need a better explanation of where things go after the first initial bend, because after that nothing makes sense to me. I see grows where they only veg for 5-6 weeks, and get a thick bush made up, that obviously hasnt had time to grow completely around the pot, and then when they show pictures it looks like one big even bush. I don't get it. I'm going crazy. just, when and where do you tie the side branching, where do you tie the stalk, and when do you untie everything? I know everyonce says tie the stalk around the pot, but it would eventually be doubling your braches over one another right? I cant comprehend, maybe a scetch or better/more specific walkthru than the sticky we have thats overpopulated the internet. Thanks guys.

#2
MrSmoke

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Hey man, I'll try my best to explain my understanding of LST.

With LST, you are accomplishing a few things:

1. You are controlling the height of your plant.
2. You are manipulating the plant so that it grows differently by altering its natural growth pattern.
3. You are optimizing available light by growing your plant over a larger area.

With all of that said, the main goal is to force your plant to grow horizontally (vs vertically as it would on its own). The spiral LST is a great concept and base for all training, but everyone's grow may experience differences yet still achieve similar results.

What happens soon after you pin that main stem down is your plant will begin to focus more of its energy into those secondary stems (probably a better name for those..). As those secondary stems attempt to take the main stems place as the dominant growth, you'll pin those down as well (forcing it to grow in an alternate direction from the main stem's direction).

Whether or not you actually make it all the way around the pot isnt nearly as important as making sure you are forcing the plant to grow horizontally by sending those new stems in different directions.

Another important concept is that you want to expose those budsites so they have the light they need to flourish.

Finally, I wouldn't be too concerned with the actual pattern. Once you start LST you'll quickly realize how the plant reacts to you tying it down. Soon after you'll grasp where to tie next.

#3
Raoul

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Try searching out the 4-way LST manual.
One of the best ways to increase bud sites while reducing the amount of vert space.

#4
Guest_newbienewton_*

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I'm going to try this for my first grow. I've done a lot of research and this method seems best for my needs. :)

#5
MrSmoke

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I'm going to try this for my first grow. I've done a lot of research and this method seems best for my needs. :)


LST is awesome man. I trained on my first grow as well and I find it pretty easy to do. My next grow I'll do better, but I'm noticing excellent results so far.

One thing I do a bit differently from most of the guides is how I tie things down.

I'm using coco coir, and since this stuff is so airy, I found that it doesn't hold normal pins or wires down in the medium.

To get around this, I use plastic coated copper wire. Sometimes I just hook on one side of the pot, go over the stem, and hook on the other side of the pot to keep it down.

Sometimes I take a single piece of wire (about 6 inches long), put a hook on one end, and a barb on the other end (basically another hook that I squish closed). I then put the barb end into the coco (seems to hold better).

I've also seen people use hooks with weights attached to them (bolts or whatever).

Be careful with what you jab into the soil. For instance, you wouldn't want to put anything in there that could contaminate your grow medium or affect its PH.

#6
NoCalCann

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OUTDOOR LST WITH VIDEOS AND PICTURES http://forum.grassci...ocalcann-8.html any questions I'll try to answer my best.

Edited by NoCalCann, 07 September 2010 - 05:33 PM.


#7
tris273

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+rep mr. smoke excellent post

#8
HongKongFuwii

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Thanks to everyone for this...I haven't pursued any info yet, but the OP started off exactly like I think when I pull out some of my grow that I'm doing this with. Made me laugh!

#9
tris273

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my 2cents:

absolutely no need to panic its really very simple. the point is of course to maximize the efficiency of the light and save you on height (my first grows passed the 1.5meter mark, my seconds are all LST now thank god) - the result is many smaller colas spread over a large area, instead of one tall one - you trade height for length.

plethora of ways but the 4-way works the best for me. pluck after you see the first set of true (5-fingered) leaves then fold the 4 resulting mains, and keep plucking them. run the 4 mains to the 4 "corners" of the pot and fold down side-branches as they pop up, until theres no space to fold anymore and its really crazy, then you are prolly ready to flower anyways.

"running" the plant spirally or along the circumference of the pot creates un-evenness in my experience, and as a result the space is used less efficiently,
also i seem to see waste on some side branches, they'll just grow horizontally and pop up again without spurting any new stuff from the length. when i top + LST (4-way and never stop topping) i feel its much more even. thats just me though, to each his own.


the general rule seems to be "fold the stem into whatever free space you see, as soon as its tall enough to 'stand out' in the crowd" - eventually it gets too crazy and you've really folded as much as you can, its all on top of one another and leaves are dying down there cause theres not alot of light and they're old and without noticing, cause you're a stoner, you pierce them with your paperclips when you fold down new growths :). and again, that would be a nice time to flower.

remember, the beauty of it (if you're doing it indoors with lamps) is you control everything, you can flower whenever you want, when its a crazy bush or when its a small half-bush that you tied down only half-way around the pot; up to you. so in theory the plant has enough time to do whatever it wants, unless you have space constraints of course.

once you flower, the stem *should* (possibly time-spent-in-veg and strain- dependant?) be strong enough to hold even without the "anchor" you choose (i use paperclips) but i see no reason to ever remove them until once you harvest and then you can recycle for future use. stems only get harder with time, if you fold them they will harden at an angle and eventually the angle will hold and not bend.

pics are of my two new LSTs - the left one is a clone so i didnt know where/when to top it, jus ran it as an inward spiral. the left i topped AND ran as an inward spiral, notice the un-even bushiness on the right, its because i didnt 4-way i suspect...

the clone grew very nicely also and i didnt have space anymore so now im folding it along the edges of the pot, clamping down with paper clips. i dont think ill have any more improvisations after they grow out, and then ill just flower. thats just to show you how much you can squeeze though - use whatever you want, tie down with string if you prefer it, whatever.

sorry about quality i used my cellphone.

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#10
NoCalCann

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I tried the spiral and Ive found the inside branches wich alternate as the plant grows stay smaller because they and thier sun leaves have to turn while growing plus your attempt to open up the middle for light goes right out the window. This is my second grow first LSThttp://forum.grassci...ocalcann-8.html but I tried two way spiral wich looks more like a ribbon or a P and what I call a scorpion tail or ? using the middle for the stalk and main cola focusing training on the side branches. Next time I want to build a frame like SCROG except external and tilted like a solar panel.

#11
zq8s10

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Okay, thanks a lot guys, I took some of your ideas, and it gave me a little more clear view on things, anyhow it did help me specify my search, and I found this one that i've never seen that give me more of the idea I'm looking for, I'm trying to veg for around 6 weeks, anyhow, check this guys out:

Really like this one.

Low Stress Training (LST) - GrowKind.com Marijuana Cultivation Forum

Hes, really just got good pictures, but thats exactly how I think I'm going to do mine, only difference, is I believe I want to tie my stems (side branches, new colas, ect.) to the sides of the pots just to keep them even, then when I flower I will release all ties and let them grow wild, is this right?

Is this my answer? haha, just want to get this right, I have a Paradise seeds sweet purple about 4 days above ground, and just put a germinated sharksbreath in the dirt to go with it, so they will be about a week apart.

so basically, grow the stalk horizonal across the pot, pulling the base of the plant towards the opposite side, then tying down all the branching to the sides, problem solved?

#12
zq8s10

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Still researching, which always leads to more questions, do you guys usually pull the branches straight behind the stalk or out to the sides, also if the branches are getting tied down also, is that waisting or hurting it, by that I mean if its growing horizonal too, are you trying to get the branching on the branching to come up too? does that make sense?

And one more thing, how long does it usually take before you can flower, say about the age of the plant in the link I posted, I want it to grow across the pot, then I'll tie the branches back then wait about a week or 2 for them to adjust, then untie it all, flush, and flower.

I would post pics to keep you guys entertained but I'm just now working on the first leaf set, all I see is the two blades that come out, and the other one is about a week behind, so it still hasnt even popped the dirt yet.

#13
MrSmoke

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I hate to say it bud, but your going to have to crash course it the first run. No matter how much research you do, you'll still learn how to do it better by actually "doing it".

When you tie that first stem down, the plant will say, "oh shit, for some reason our main stem isn't doing so well - divert more energy to the lower stems!"

At that point you get all this new growth below the main stem.

When those secondary guys shoot out, train them in their own directions (doesn't matter, as long as you send them in a direction with little light competition).

When its all said and done, and you've done it right, the plant should be thinking "nothing is working, we cant seem to push anything higher than 6 inches, lets just spread out and push everything up to 6 inches".

Auxins should be distributed more evenly (vs dominance on your main stem) which should result in lots of colas (vs one massive cola).

Edit: Oh - one last thing. On your first bend, you should have to tie at the base of the stem to hold it from pulling it out of the ground when you pull on it. MAKE SURE TO REMOVE IN A COUPLE WEEKS. I forgot about one of those and removed it late, and noticed the stem almost grew completely around the tie at the base. I dont know that it hurt the plant, but I'm sure it would've been better if the plant wasn't restricted at the main stem.

Edited by MrSmoke, 08 September 2010 - 02:11 PM.


#14
NoCalCann

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You gotta just do it, you have the idea so just picture it in your head and as the plant grows make it the picture. Like Myagi told Daniel You cant do it wrong if it comes from your head JUSTa TRUST da PICTURE:p

#15
mendezgregorya

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I have a northern lights i lst'd and it is looking great, also i bought a BW clone (BubblegumxTrainwrek) It was very tall with a weak steam structure so i was able to easily manipulate it into tying it around my whole pot, its only its 3rd with into veg with my 125w cfl 6500k and its starting to look great to, atm i am actually using fishing wire and a little bit of tape its working for me and im on a budget, i tried the hooks but they didnt seem to stay in my soil well enough so idk id like to know also when i can stop having them tied down or if i can keep it tied down during flower

#16
yyz0

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I have a northern lights i lst'd and it is looking great, also i bought a BW clone (BubblegumxTrainwrek) atm i am actually using fishing wire and a little bit of tape its working for me and im on a budget, i tried the hooks but they didnt seem to stay in my soil well enough so idk id like to know also when i can stop having them tied down or if i can keep it tied down during flower


I also had problems with my hooks pulling out as the plant grew, I ended up making double ended hooks then catching the stem with one end and the pot lip with the other.

I left mine tied down all through flower, actually I shortened the hooks several weeks into flower to spread the stems out more and lower.


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