Chunk's Organics and Other Random Shenanigans

Hello GC,

In the spirit of advancing our knowledge of growing medical grade cannabis, I've decided to do a side by side grow with a couple of my Purple Perma Frost clones. The clones are close in size and stature and were rooted at the same time.

What I will try to do is compare my regular fertilizer/seed-marine meal mix which is tailored to the same protocols that LumperDawgz uses with this same fertilzer mix that has been fermented with AEM as in a Bokashi inoculant.

Lumperdawgz has been kind enough to give me some of his various fertilizers and Bokashi mixes, and he will be along for this journal to give his input. We've met and talked considerably about different ideas and this Bokashi fertilizer could cut our fertilizer use in half.

Throughout this journal I will post links and cite information that will be helpful to us organic folks, and Lump will surely weigh in.......so I'll start by posting a couple of pics of the 2 clones. I'll follow up in subsequent posts with the parameters of the grow, and of course, I'll throw in some pics and comments of some of my other girls that are in different stages of growth.

I want to thank LumperDawgz for giving me/us his time, and for his generosity. I hope this journal will help those just getting into organics to gain some insight into the importance of soils, microbes, systemic protection against pests and powdery mildew, and most importantly, being able to wean one's self from the "Grow Store" tit:D.

Here's some shots of the two girls with the one on the left being the control with my regular fertilizer mix, while the clone on the right uses the Bokashi fert.

cheers,

chunk

Edited by Chunk, 31 July 2010 - 04:11 PM.

SOIL

For this test grow, I'm using 2 parts coco coir/1 part medium pumice and 1 part of a 50/50 mix of fresh EWC that is sourced locally at a worm farm and an equal part of Marwest Organic Compost. I also add a half part of rice hulls for aeration as well as a marker for the decomposition of the soil.

Marwest is marketed in the Pacific Northwest and is changing it's name to Ground Up Soils. LumperDawgz introduced me to this compost and has had it lab tested. " the microbe levels are off the charts" is the quote he used when first talking to me about it.

With the addition of a top quality compost, you have laid the ground work for a healthy, living soil. With a quality compost such as Marwest, you can even forgo AACT's if you are on a tight budget.

This soil mix comes in at under 18 bucks for 4 cu/ft and even cheaper if you use the coco blocks. Lump likes the 2 cu/ft bags of the loose coco coir which is about 8 bucks. Being the tight ass that I am......I use the coco blocks which give me 3 cu/ft coir for under 6 bucks ..........either way is a steal IMO.

Hers a few pics of the soil products:

SMART POTS

I've been using Smart Pots for quite a while now, and I'm a believer. Most of my Smart Pots are #5's but I do have some #1's and some #7's.

Madodah has a a couple of good threads about Smart Pots you can see here and here but the definitive Smart Pot thread is this thread. If you are serious about providing the healthiest environment for your roots, Smart Pots are the way to IMHO.

There other air pruning pots on the market, but for the money, I like the Smart Pots.

Moving on........

Thanks Chunk for the thread! I wanted to make a couple of notes.

1. Marwest Compost (aka GroundUp) is an incredible product. I was given the opportunity to visit their organic farm down the valley a few miles at the foothills of the Cascades - very beautiful farm and surroundings.

This is 100% 'organic terrorist' compost. Every item used in their thermal piles is carefully considered. This is not a commercial operation at all but yet their compost is available from the organic farm stores in Portland for about $5.33 per cubic foot.

2. SmartPots is a product line that I highly recommend. Especially if you have heat-related issues as the porosity of the material allows the roots aeration and cooling to keep the plant healthy.

At HomeDepot, garden centers, etc. they sell a product whose actual name I can't remember but it's basically 'Velcro Tape' for plants. You can effect a very good LST using this Velcro-type product because it sticks to the SmartPot material.

Loop the tape around the branch that you want to control and make sure that it's secure. Take the other end of the piece of Velcro and attach it to the sides of the SmartPots. You can see how easily the tape can be moved, adjusted, etc. to the changes as you move through the cycles.

3. Fermented Fertilizers - I was very grateful when Chunk said he was interested in trying out a crazy idea that I've been working on for a couple of years.

For the sake of this discussion, I used the EM-1 method of making bokashi bran but with some crazy changes. I used 25% of the seed meal that I made up and use (alfalfa, soybean meal, canola meal, flaxseed meal, fish meal, fish bone meal, crustacean meal, neem meal, kelp meal) along with a mix that included rice hulls and rice bran that made up the other 75% of the overall mix. Those percentages were by volume and not weight. There was also some sea salt and rock dusts added to the mixture.

Normally when you make bokashi bran you're wanting to hit the lowest PH that you can with 3.2 being the goal. I'm not sure why but it was pretty easy for me to hit PH2.8

In making AEM or bokashi, it's my understanding that lower PH levels indicate higher microbial activity in that specific environment. Perhaps because of the diversity in the seed meal mix this accounts for the numbers that I was able to hit. Regardless, I wanted to hit this extreme to shore-up a belief/understanding on the role of PH in organic soils. This test is not the end all to be all but it is an important step to test out for the next concept I'm working on using fermented soil amendments.

The mix was covered with massive amounts of mold structure. When I gave Chunk a Ziplock bag of it and he looked at it I could tell that he thought I was probably completely out of my friggin' mind! It looked like a lab experiment - LOL

I had left the fungi undisturbed to the extent that I could when I was bagging it up so that he could see how alive the mix was/is.

The other thing to consider as you follow this journal and that is that no massive liming program is used to counter the extremely low PH of the fermented mix. I can only speak for myself but in the soil mix that I make up and use, there's less than 2 oz. of limestone (Calcium Carbonate) in 1 cubic foot of mixed soil.

According to the cannabis growing experts this level of acidity in the primary feeding addition, Chunk should be seeing all kinds of problems like the (in)famous cal-mag lockout, nute burn, nutrient lockout, the heartbreak of psoriasis, yellow waxy build-up and other serious problems.

I'm betting that the growth rate, plant health and vigor, will exceed the conventional method. I do take PayPal if anyone's interested.

I'll post the photos tonight of my 3 plants using this same fermented fertilizer mix which are about 9 days into the 12/12 cycle when the lights come on in the flower room.

You'll see what a mess it becomes when you throw caution to the wind and disregard the PH meme and fail to chase the magical PH numbers advised by cannabis experts. It's quite distressing. Anyone got a hankie?

Maybe Chunk can run a PH on the 'run-off' - a testing process/procedure that has given me more than a few opportunities to stop and chuckle and chortle.

One final caution Chunk - don't forget to flush!

LD

Edited by LumperDawgz, 31 July 2010 - 02:49 PM.

Hi Lump,

Thanks for your contributions here on this thread, and GC at large. I'm stoked you're involved and will be helping to make the scientific stuff easier to digest.

I wanted to touch on the basic fertilizer mix that I use, which is based on your mix. I know that you've eliminated the cottonseed meal, but here is a former post you made:

These are in 50 lbs. bags and all of the seed meals are organic and non-GMO varieties.........

Alfalfa Meal (Central Oregon) - 3-0.5-2.5 @ $16.80
Canola Meal (Montana) - 5-0-2 @ $35.00
Cottonseed Meal - 5-2-1 @ $$22.00
Linseed Meal (Flax, cold pressed) (Montana) 6-1-1 @ $23.00
Soybean Meal - 8-0-1 @ $42.00

The following are split-bags and are 25 lbs. units......

Kelp Meal (organic) (Acadian Seaplants, Ltd.) - 1-0-2 @ $30.50
Fish Bone Meal (organic) (Wilbur-Ellis) - 5-16-0 @ $10.80
Crab Meal (Marion Ag) (Oregon) - 4-1-0 @ $18.00
Fish Meal (organic) (Wilbur-Ellis) - 10-4-0 @ $18.50
Neem Seed Meal - (organic) (Down-To-Earth) - 5-1-2 @ $30.00
Archipelago Bat Guano - 0-7-0 @ $22.00

I add about 1 cup of this mix to 1 cf. of my soil mix.

There's also 2 cups of a mineral mix added to each cubic foot of potting soil.

This would be a similar mix that is in the "Bokashi" fertilizer. My mix is not quite as diverse, but has a good profile nonetheless.

I use :

Alfalfa Meal 2x
Kelp Meal 1x
Fish Meal 1x
Fish Bone Meal 1x
Crustacean Meal 1x
Neem Cake(Meal) 1X

I'll post some pics of the Down To Earth line I'm about done with, but I'm slowly picking up 50# sacks of the various meals. Lump has been kind enough to offer to go in half on some of these meals to defray costs.

There is also an Organic Farm Store in PDX that will actually break down 50# sacks of their meals into 25# packages, so that's an option for those in this area. Naomi's is a great resource for all of the supplies I've listed so far. If you want 50# sacks, you can also buy them here.

I know that we're quite fortunate to have such a great supply source in our little neck of the woods, and that trying to source some of these products/supplies will be harder in other parts of the country.

The thing is, you can use what you can find locally to you. You really don't need to worry so much about the nutrient profile numbers ( Lump, a little help here)

There are a lot of dry pre-mixed fertilizers that will work just fine, Before I started buying the bulk bags, I was using dry ferts from Dr. Earth. You can also use the dry fertilizer line made by Espoma........or (and I just discovered this) Happy Frog from Fox Farm
(overpriced IMO). And again, the Down To Earth single or blended dry ferts are a great option.

In pic 2........tray one is the blended fertilizers in the control plant,tray two is the Bokashi fertilizer (zoom in to see the fungus Lump sent me:D) and tray three is some Bokashi bran mix that I got from Lump.

I'm gonna make some breakfast.......be back later!

chunk

VERY nice man! Great info in here so far, I will be here til the end, keep it up!

Chunk,

I'm excited to see this one. This is going to be the thread to learn from.

I wish I could have seen you two, the look on your face when LD handed you that ziploc! Honestly, I'm jealous. To be a fly on the wall listening to you two discuss things.

Lumper, the day you take paypal is the day I empty my bank account.

I'll be asking plenty of questions here.

Thanks guys for a great idea.

Sweet!! I love experiments!!!

I'm in! This looks to be a great journal full of useful info. I'm not new to growing but I'm new to organics and learning something everyday (or every time I read one of LD's posts LOL). MrsEd is especially interested in growing organically, more so than me even so I'm sure she'll be along here shortly. Thanks for doing this and I'm stoked to follow along.

Excited to see this pairing of minds and skills! You guys are going to rock our world and turn conventional main stream thinking upside down!

Awesome! Thank you!

Subscribed! Looking forward to seeing the path this takes.

Thank you both for conspiring to do this test grow and documenting it here for all of us to follow!

Mizzafishkilla

Edited by MizzaFishKilla, 01 August 2010 - 02:23 PM.

One other thing that is included in the basic potting soil is a mineral mix product that is available at the 2 stores Chunk mentioned.

The ingredients are in equal amounts by volume and not by weight: Azomite, Gaia Green's Canadian Glacial Rock Dust, Soft Rock Phosphate, New Jersey Greensand and Limestone (pure Calcium Carbonate).

Besides being a solid and diverse source of rock dusts and minerals in general, another benefit is that it's prilled. Prilling is a process where a powder is tumbled in a hopper and the powder(s) are sprayed with water mist containing a clay (I can't recall the class of clay used - too early) which soon changes into pellets. This is not pelletized which is a similar process that uses a harder clay that creates an amendment requiring in a longer time before it's available in the soil and then the plant.

Both prilled and pelletized fertilizers are becoming more common because of EPA rules enforcemenet regarding dust and safety/health issues among agriculture workers. A prilled and/or pelletized fertilizer can be applied using a hose and gun mounted on the back of a flat-bed truck moving through the fields.

Back to the mineral mix being used - because this product is prilled and contains the correct form of clay and is completely water soluble (the clay - not the minerals it's wrapped around), the clay particles break free and thereby increase the CeC levels in an organic soil.

LD

I'm gonna be sitting here hitting F5 over and over hoping for updates

As always, great work guys. Thank-you.

subscribed!
this should be very cool.. thanks for posting this brother!

Looks very interesting guys, I'm thinking of doing a side by side comparison also. This is good stuff,I'm in 100%. Big thanks to both of you.I'm reading everything you put out.

One other thing that is included in the basic potting soil is a mineral mix product that is available at the 2 stores Chunk mentioned.

The ingredients are in equal amounts by volume and not by weight: Azomite, Gaia Green's Canadian Glacial Rock Dust, Soft Rock Phosphate, New Jersey Greensand and Limestone (pure Calcium Carbonate).

Besides being a solid and diverse source of rock dusts and minerals in general, another benefit is that it's prilled. Prilling is a process where a powder is tumbled in a hopper and the powder(s) are sprayed with water mist containing a clay (I can't recall the class of clay used - too early) which soon changes into pellets. This is not pelletized which is a similar process that uses a harder clay that creates an amendment requiring in a longer time before it's available in the soil and then the plant.

Both prilled and pelletized fertilizers are becoming more common because of EPA rules enforcemenet regarding dust and safety/health issues among agriculture workers. A prilled and/or pelletized fertilizer can be applied using a hose and gun mounted on the back of a flat-bed truck moving through the fields.

Back to the mineral mix being used - because this product is prilled and contains the correct form of clay and is completely water soluble (the clay - not the minerals it's wrapped around), the clay particles break free and thereby increase the CeC levels in an organic soil.

LD

Thanks Lump,

Along with the mineral mix that I'm using, I'm also adding K-MAG, which is potassium magnesium sulfate. LD has posted elsewhere the benefits of this valuable amendment so I think it's important to mention it.

Here is a quote from LD on K-Mag:

The oxide forms of Sulphur and Magnesium (O4) are the type found in K-Mag or sulphate of potash magnesia.

What is the difference between Mg and MgO?

The magnesium content of K-Mag is expressed as 11% in elemental magnesium (Mg) and about 18.5% when expressed as magnesium oxide (MgO). From the early days of chemical analysis, the traditional way of expressing chemical content was to do so in the oxide form, e.g., MgO. Mathematically, the 11% of magnesium in K-Mag is 66% greater when the weight of oxygen (O) is added to the Mg.

This does not change the amount or percent of elemental magnesium (Mg) present. MgO is simply another mathematical way of expressing the same thing.

What is the difference between S and SO4 in Sul-Po-Mag?

Sulfur (S) and sulfate sulfur (SO4) differences are explained just like Mg and MgO. The sulfur (S) content of K-Mag is 22%. When it is expressed in the oxide form, oxygen's presence increases the sulfate sulfur content to between 63-66% as SO4. As with magnesium, the actual content is not changed by using different mathematical methods of expressing it.

What are the advantages of Sul-Po-Mag as a fertilizer source?

• A naturally-occurring mineral
• Contains a unique 3-in-1 combination of potassium, magnesium and sulfur
• Essentially chloride-free at 2.5% maximum o Sulfate source of all three nutrients
• Neutral salt that does not change the soil pH at any application rate
• 100% water soluble
• Blends or mixes well with most common fertilizer materials
• Sul-Po-Mag Granular is classified as "acceptable" for use in certified organic crop production
• Economical when two of the three nutrients are needed
• Very economical when all three nutrients are needed
• Low salt index

By using a K-Mag along with pure Calcium Carbonate (CaCo3), you will have covered all the bases from acid to alkaline soils and not have to resort to using dolomite lime. Dolomite lime is not water soluble whereas K-Mag is.

K-Mag should run you about $20.00 per 50 lbs.

Calcium Carbonate (CaCo3)

I've also included oyster shell flour in my base mix, which is 96% calcium carbonate. As noted above, the use of this amendment along with K-MAG will keep your soil's pH balanced.

I've includes 1/4 cup of each into my #5 Smart Pots.

cheers,

chunk

Edited by Chunk, 01 August 2010 - 04:25 PM.

... Along with the mineral mix that I'm using, I'm also adding K-MAG, which is potassium magnesium sulfate. LD has posted elsewhere the benefits of this valuable amendment so I think it's important to mention it.

Here is a quote from LD on K-Mag:...

I've been reading the info at the web site and I'm kind of blown away by it all. I'd love to get some of that...and I will for next time

Here are a couple of shots on my test run using the fermented fertilizer mix that Chunk is also running.

They are in Day 11 in the flower cycle. They've had stinging nettle FPE, an alfalfa & kelp tea and a kelp hydrolysate and fish hydrolysate application applied to the soil in 3 separate applications.

They're due for their 2nd application of a humic acid product which also contains 7 chelated minerals.

They've had 2 applications of neem & karanja oil that was mixed with both liquid silica and yucca extract applied as a foliar application.

LD

Edited by LumperDawgz, 03 August 2010 - 02:46 AM.

Here are a couple of shots on my test run using the fermented fertilizer mix that Chunk is also running.

They are in Day 11 in the flower cycle. They've had stinging nettle FPE, an alfalfa & kelp tea and a kelp hydrolysate and fish hydrolysate application applied to the soil in 3 separate applications.

The ladies look lovely basking in their spa area. It looks like you are using a grow tent? Would you mind supplying the footprint of that, the type of light, and the size of the container you are using? I believe Chunk is using #5's.

The plants look wonderfully happy - reaching for the stars! That always indicates great plant health to me. Did you try the afalfa ferment yet?

Nice show fellars!