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Searching For All Landrace & Old School Strains


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#1
DarwinsBulldog

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hey all! for the past half of this year i've been searching hard for Australian and other worldly Landrace and old school strains. (i know the aussie ones aren't technically landrace but you know what i mean haha).

bit about me: i'm a post grad evolutionary geneticist biologist who's wanting to become a full time cannabis breeder after i finish. i'm also looking to do a phd in mapping the genetic maps of landraces (phylogenetics/phylogeography) of cannabis one day when i've moved to europe. planning on moving to switzerland in 2012-13 with my best mate who also intends on working for/with me in breeding/growing. i'm wanting to work with landrace and old school lines to create my own IBLs and cross to form hybrids for my own strain creations, i'd also love to vend landrace strains i'm planning on collecting in my travels to countries in asia, africa europe as well as through friends and banks etc. anyway haha big plans, but doable in time! if you've any questions please feel free to ask me :D

purpose of my search is to collect up as many as i can and breed up large amounts of seed stock for the preservation of each line into the future. also for the purpose of my own breeding projects in the future but to always have a large pure seed stock for each line to share and make available to anyone who shares them with me.

anyway the plan is to become somewhat of a free seed bank i guess, whereby i am able to share the unworked lines of landraces and other uncommon strains with people. i'm really wanting to encourage people to donate/share strains i do not have and/or am chasing so i think anyone who does donate stock to the cause or helps out breeding for this project would get certain benefits like first pick and larger amounts of seed.

this way i'd hope to encourage as much altruism as possible but still be able to help those who don't have anything to offer per se get strains they would otherwise be unable to acquire, those ones from the 70s onwards, or landraces etc which aren't highly sort after by many people other than hobby to serious breeders, and be a single source for which these breeders can communicate with to get new stock of old material for their projects etc. also for those who donate and or breed for the project they could request strains i have but haven't bred stock up for yet to work with or to be put higher up the list of strains i'll make seed for. i might add too that i'm not too interested in taking people's hard work to use, unless they decide to give it to me freely, i will not be asking for your hard worked lines, just the original unselected, unstabilized genetics of those lines if you have them. if you're ok with me using your work, i'd be honoured, just saying though. i'm an honourable person and will not be ever using people's work for my stuff, i want to be 100% original with my own work (or as close to it as possible), so i reiterate, i'm not asking for your hard worked lines, but if you want to donate some worked stuff that you're proud of and want to share with the world (whatever it may be) i won't say no, and you can attach whatever circumstances or conditions to their use as you see fit. whatever you give or don't give is 100% up to you. for those who choose to donate, anything you give will be accredited to you on the list and i'll try and attach as much info about each strain as i can.

this is just an idea so feel free to give me any advice or criticisms i just think it'd be a nice thing for the cannabis community to have and i'm a seed addict, landrace/old strain lover and want to do my best for others out there. i'm an honest person who doesn't forget his debts so be assured i will give back 10 fold to those interested :D i will never be asking for money on top of whatever it may cost for postage assuming i can't afford to post it myself. if this thing gets too many people interested then i may have to ask you to pay for your own postage as i can't afford pay for everyone's unfortunately, i would if i could. i do not plan on selling or buying any of these unworked, unstabilized landrace / old school lines, this is going to be a 100% profit free, philanthropic project to hopefully aid and better the cannabis community we're all a part of!

here's a list of the lines i have and plan to be working breeding up large amounts of (unselected) seed stocks, for breeding projects of mine and others in the future.

currently working with Mazar-I-Sharif

LIST:
Turkish Landrace? : hand picked in turkey from the country side.
Mazar-I-Sharif
Parvati
Lebanese
Nepalese
X18
Mauritius Sativa
Ciskei Bushman - Sativa
Swazi
Garhwali Jungli
Malana Cream
Nepalese White Mountain
Pahari Farmhouse
Original Afghan #1
Mama Thai
African Buzz
Hash Passion
Old Mother Sativa (australian old school)
Afghan Kush
Pakistan Valley
Oaxacan

and a fair few more on the way. many of these were purchased by me myself, as well as collected and donated by other people. please join them and add your stuff to the list :D

thanks for your time everyone! feel free to PM or msg back in this thread.

darwin

Edited by DarwinsBulldog, 03 August 2010 - 12:14 PM.


#2
platinum_angel

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looks like a great project even though all of your strains are from commercial vendors. i suggest meeting new individual breeders who have some old school strains. it looks like your missing alot of south american strains. but hey whatever good luck to you and i hope you achieve what your looking for.

#3
DarwinsBulldog

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hey platinum, yeah most of these have been purchased by me to start me off, i have about 5 or so that are from the wild that people have collected or bred from stuff they've been given by those who collected them. i'm hoping to add much much more to the list as possible :D it'll be easier with increased support, so we'll see how we go! and yeah hoping to get some south american stuff, harder to find though, i'm getting some oaxacan from a friend this week, and panama red is in my sights too.

#4
lessismore

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If I remember right, Shantibaba at Mr. Nice Seeds has worked with many Australian land race varieties and still hold seed stock, you can probably contact him on his site. Another breeder working with some Australian strains was Fet, las ti knew he was with Spice Brothers, but can't say for certain. He also had some very nice Southeast Asian strains he was working with.

#5
DarwinsBulldog

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If I remember right, Shantibaba at Mr. Nice Seeds has worked with many Australian land race varieties and still hold seed stock, you can probably contact him on his site. Another breeder working with some Australian strains was Fet, las ti knew he was with Spice Brothers, but can't say for certain. He also had some very nice Southeast Asian strains he was working with.


hey lessismore, cheers for that, yeah shanti msged me on icmag a while back but never got back to me, so must be a very busy man :D he said he had a fair few, hopefully he'll notice this thread that i've put up on his forum too. i'm really hoping that i can get this up and running and give back 10 fold to breeders out there as a lot have already given to me. i'll try and find out more on fet. cheers mate. be sure to let anyone you think may be interested in this know if you can :D

#6
guerilla45

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#7
DarwinsBulldog

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wow mate, some nice photos there! :D i got this mazar-i-sharif through RSC, so if yours is old school i'm guessing it way different. if you ever have any spare let me know mate :D i'd still love anything similar or the same as what i have if it's still distinctly different, ie. much older, or from a different region etc even with the same name. as i'm sure there'd be very interesting genetics and different phenos etc in those strains. cheers mate :D

#8
BodyBuzz

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wow dude what an amazing project,a cross-sectional study of cannabis. Why have you focused specifically on landrace strains? is your goal just to start a high-end heirloom seed bank, or are you looking to crack open a few genotypes?

#9
0MGWTFBBQ

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I bought 2 of these but they died already.

South African Kwazulu ! World of Seeds Landrace South African Kwazulu Seeds - Buy World of Seeds Landrace South African Kwazulu Seeds Online - Herbies World of Seeds Marijuana Cannabis Seeds

I can vouch for this website too.

#10
DarwinsBulldog

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cheers omgwtfbbq, how'd the one from world of seeds go, i've heard a few bad things about them but want to try their stuff for myself before a judge them. stuff about lots of hermies i heard.

#11
DarwinsBulldog

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wow dude what an amazing project,a cross-sectional study of cannabis. Why have you focused specifically on landrace strains? is your goal just to start a high-end heirloom seed bank, or are you looking to crack open a few genotypes?


hey mate, the reason one would focus on landrace studies is because they'd be more like the original strains that were dispersed 1000s of years ago than say white widow or white rhino... a good analogy i can think of is say if you were trying to look at the spatial genetics of the wolf and you tried doing it through the domesticated dog (same species as the wolf). those domesticated dogs have mixed genes from all over the world, inbred, outbred, bottlenecked... they aren't great for analysing at all because they're just a mish mash of everything, what you need to properly map the spatial genetics of cannabis is unique strains that have been isolated from one another for a substantial amount of time that they're distinctly genetically different. then you can compare them with one another to see how closely related they are, but if you breed strains from different places together, then again and again and again they all become the same level of mixed up relatedness and it's redundant.

sorry to post from another forum, i'm on icmag and wrote up a thread about this so if you want a quick read just suss out the second page of this thread and i go into a bit more depth about the reasons (apologies for cross foruming, i just can't be bothered writing out 1000s of words again)

Landrace Seed Collection: Destinations??? - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

and yeah the aim is to one day have my own seed bank that has pure landraces, unselected, unstabalized for other breeders out there who want to use them, as well as to have my own hybrids and creations. i'd like to make as much of it as free as possible though (landraces wise) that's why i'm trying to encourage the donating and sharing idea, you get whatever you put in sort of thing. i don't want to be rich, i just want to be happy doing what i'm doing and helping others. anyway :D if you can help out or know nayone who can send them my way :D might need a few landrace breeders on board to help too if there're any out there willing to jump on board.

darwin

#12
Mr Smoketoomuch

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hoping to get some south american stuff, harder to find though, i'm getting some oaxacan from a friend this week, and panama red is in my sights too.


You can try Brazilian Seed Company , but I'm not making any recommendation for or against, as I simply haven't tried them.
Same with afropips for African landraces; these are also available from some seed banks.

#13
DarwinsBulldog

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You can try Brazilian Seed Company , but I'm not making any recommendation for or against, as I simply haven't tried them.
Same with afropips for African landraces; these are also available from some seed banks.


cheers mate, i've heard of afro and seen a bit on brazilian but haven't tried either's stuff either, i might. issue is i don't particularly want to be undercutting these companies too much if we end up giving away seed for free as that wouldn't be too far, i dunno... give me your thoughts? i've definitely been looking for durban poison and swazi red for a while now but they're all out! grrr haha so hopefully we end up with a lot more stuff that has been collected in the field or in brick weed, or whatever :D we'll see i guess! cheers mate

#14
Mr Smoketoomuch

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Hm,,,

Well, this may sound harsh, but once someone sells a seed they lose control of it and its offspring, don't they? There's certainly no patents on a landrace. Being landraces they're ''unimproved'', so no real selection or breeding work has gone into them. I don't really see a problem with collecting / buying seed and then selecting and breeding from it, and then selling / giving away the results. That's basically the business model of the best, most honourable seed breeders in the world today. Let's not even consider those who use (rip off) other's hard work on selecting and breeding by taking their seed and selling the improved genetics as their own. There's a big difference in the amount of time and effort of required to produce something like Black Widow, and something like a Brazilian Sativa landrace...

#15
DarwinsBulldog

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Hm,,,

Well, this may sound harsh, but once someone sells a seed they lose control of it and its offspring, don't they? There's certainly no patents on a landrace. Being landraces they're ''unimproved'', so no real selection or breeding work has gone into them. I don't really see a problem with collecting / buying seed and then selecting and breeding from it, and then selling / giving away the results. That's basically the business model of the best, most honourable seed breeders in the world today. Let's not even consider those who use (rip off) other's hard work on selecting and breeding by taking their seed and selling the improved genetics as their own. There's a big difference in the amount of time and effort of required to produce something like Black Widow, and something like a Brazilian Sativa landrace...


yeah i agree with you, you have to remember also though that the landraces are landraces because they've been worked and selected for for even longer than those black widow plants though too by the native people of those countries they come from. but yeah i know what you mean. well i'll be breeding up seed stock for almost everything i ever get, to work with (landrace/old school line wise). there are many pollen chuckers out there, i mean no disrespect by using that term, but yeah i definitely am aiming to be 100% original with stuff in the future i attempt to sell and make money from (if i do), by original i mean using landraces or unstable lines to select for whatever traits i want and create something unique, stabilize it and sell it, anything else along the way that is from the seed stock from initial landraces is definitely up for grabs for whoever interested. i just hope people are willing to donate seeds to the cause :D

#16
lessismore

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Having traveled to collect seeds in South America and Thailand, there was one thing I noticed in how they cultivated their crops. They do use selection in the males they use to produce seed stock for the next grow season. In Thailand, and other regions in SE Asia, these selections are more detailed than South American cultivars, and Mexican cultivars basically no longer exist in pure form b/c the drug lords/cartels have infiltrated the crops with various hybrids to increase yields and give them 2 harvest per year. In Michoacan, they used a Ruderalis so they have numerous harvest each season.

Most South American strains, such as the infamous Santa Marta region Golds and Reds have been pretty much left to go wild due to the growing popularity, and better profits from cocaine. There may be some small villages still cultivating crops, however drug lords/cartels have pretty much allowed the cannabis market to be taken over by coca production.

The reason SE Asia is still a major cultivating region is b/c of tourism. Many tourists travel there(especially Thailand)to experience the legendary Thai experience. One must remember, in the 70's, Thai was the only strain testing in the high teens to mid 20's in potency. If you think about it, this is after it was packaged and shipped, so just imagine if you grew some pure Thai out how potent it would be. It is not highly sought after b/c it is very sensitive and unpredictable as most SE Asian strains are, plus the fact it is very high in THC, but low in CBN/CBD. So it is a more psychedelic high and can often have a creeper effect. It is also one of the longest flowering Sativas that exist. Santa Marta Columbian is about 14-16 weeks, I have flowered some of these SE Asian strains for well over 20 weeks. I often suggest 18-20, but have had Cambodian and Thai go for up to 24 weeks. The avg. grower does not have the patience for a long flowering strain regardless of potent it is.

The only difference between the Real Seed Co. land races and true land races from the native regions is selections. Same with ACE seeds. They use some selections to improve upon the development of the plants. Anyone who has grown a true land race knows the flowers can be stringy, often airy, and possess a very high leaf ratio; making them a pain in the ass to trim. Many of the land race breeders use selective inbreeding to illiminate these traits. As I did with my Thai X, I used 3 very different Thai strains; one having very loose and stringy flowers, one that had compact flowers, but they were small like balls, and a SE variety which produced flowers kind of in between the both. I selected for flower production while trying to breed in various traits which improved upon the production of the flowers.

African and Jamaican land races are also still cultivated for use, it is part of the culture/relegion in these regions. I have found that Jamaican land races can be very hard to come by, and again, many of them over the past 10-15 yrs have been infiltrated with hybrid genetics to improve production and yields. IMO, SE Asian and African land races are the only land races left untouched.

When we speak of "improved", we speak of yields and flowering. Many breeders have worked to improve yields and flower production, where potency has just been maintained. It is hard to increase potentcy through breeding b/c the genetic make ups are what they are. That is my problem with Ruderalis/auto-flowering strains. To carry the auto trait over takes breeding a percentage of the auto genes, Ruderalis being of little if any THC content, it seems a breeder would be sacrificing potency, as well as yield, for a faster growing strain. IMO that is counterproductive.

Just my thoughts after growing and breeding land races for over 30 yrs.
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#17
DarwinsBulldog

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Having traveled to collect seeds in South America and Thailand, there was one thing I noticed in how they cultivated their crops. They do use selection in the males they use to produce seed stock for the next grow season. In Thailand, and other regions in SE Asia, these selections are more detailed than South American cultivars, and Mexican cultivars basically no longer exist in pure form b/c the drug lords/cartels have infiltrated the crops with various hybrids to increase yields and give them 2 harvest per year. In Michoacan, they used a Ruderalis so they have numerous harvest each season.

Most South American strains, such as the infamous Santa Marta region Golds and Reds have been pretty much left to go wild due to the growing popularity, and better profits from cocaine. There may be some small villages still cultivating crops, however drug lords/cartels have pretty much allowed the cannabis market to be taken over by coca production.

The reason SE Asia is still a major cultivating region is b/c of tourism. Many tourists travel there(especially Thailand)to experience the legendary Thai experience. One must remember, in the 70's, Thai was the only strain testing in the high teens to mid 20's in potency. If you think about it, this is after it was packaged and shipped, so just imagine if you grew some pure Thai out how potent it would be. It is not highly sought after b/c it is very sensitive and unpredictable as most SE Asian strains are, plus the fact it is very high in THC, but low in CBN/CBD. So it is a more psychedelic high and can often have a creeper effect. It is also one of the longest flowering Sativas that exist. Santa Marta Columbian is about 14-16 weeks, I have flowered some of these SE Asian strains for well over 20 weeks. I often suggest 18-20, but have had Cambodian and Thai go for up to 24 weeks. The avg. grower does not have the patience for a long flowering strain regardless of potent it is.

The only difference between the Real Seed Co. land races and true land races from the native regions is selections. Same with ACE seeds. They use some selections to improve upon the development of the plants. Anyone who has grown a true land race knows the flowers can be stringy, often airy, and possess a very high leaf ratio; making them a pain in the ass to trim. Many of the land race breeders use selective inbreeding to illiminate these traits. As I did with my Thai X, I used 3 very different Thai strains; one having very loose and stringy flowers, one that had compact flowers, but they were small like balls, and a SE variety which produced flowers kind of in between the both. I selected for flower production while trying to breed in various traits which improved upon the production of the flowers.

African and Jamaican land races are also still cultivated for use, it is part of the culture/relegion in these regions. I have found that Jamaican land races can be very hard to come by, and again, many of them over the past 10-15 yrs have been infiltrated with hybrid genetics to improve production and yields. IMO, SE Asian and African land races are the only land races left untouched.

When we speak of "improved", we speak of yields and flowering. Many breeders have worked to improve yields and flower production, where potency has just been maintained. It is hard to increase potentcy through breeding b/c the genetic make ups are what they are. That is my problem with Ruderalis/auto-flowering strains. To carry the auto trait over takes breeding a percentage of the auto genes, Ruderalis being of little if any THC content, it seems a breeder would be sacrificing potency, as well as yield, for a faster growing strain. IMO that is counterproductive.

Just my thoughts after growing and breeding land races for over 30 yrs.


wow mate, thanks so much for all the info there, definitely learnt a few things i hadn't read about before :D cheers

#18
DarwinsBulldog

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hey guys, just wanted to say thanks to all those who've gotten back to me about this :D it's nice to see the type of generous community we have here! keep it coming and spread the word, i've got this thread up on a few other forums too and have had a heap of interest.

Edited by DarwinsBulldog, 20 July 2010 - 12:37 PM.


#19
DarwinsBulldog

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i forgot to add the link to my mazar-i-sharif breeding thread.

thar she blows :D

#20
DarwinsBulldog

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oaxacan from mexico has now been added to the list :D


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