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bare vertical lighting vs. horizontal with reflector


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#1
treason222

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Does anyone know which is better, a bare (no reflector) 1000 watt hps vertical light or using a 1000hps horizontal light with a good reflector? I know lights burn cooler without reflectors so they should be able to be placed closer to the plants without burning them and give my plants more light. I always hear that horizontal lighting with a hood is better. But it seems to me that a bare 1000 watt vertical hps hung just below the cannopy would work better because the plants would get more light from top to bottom. You should check out "Urban grower medi grow 40" on you tube and tell me what you think. :)

#2
mrgoodsmoke

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I was thinking of hanging my cooltube vertically with no reflector. Maybe someone will know.

#3
bulletcatcher

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HID bulbs are best used in a reflector. CFLs work best without one, or with a wide parabolic type reflector. The way the tubes are arranged and coated with a phosphor in a CFL creates a bad situation for trying to use a reflector.

#4
treason222

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I can place my plants 12 inches from my ushio super 1000watt hps without them burning. They are getting 146,000 lumens at this distance using a vertical light with no hood. I place my plants around the light. The closest that i have heard for a horizontal light with a good reflector is 24 inches. That means the plants would only get 34,000 lumens ( the inverse square law) and that only lights the top canopyof the plants. Light that has to be reflected is already farther away ( up to 12 inches if it has to travel 6 inches up before being reflected back down) and reflected light cause really hot temps. Vertical bare lights disperse heat a lot better because there is no reflector to trap the heat.

#5
bulletcatcher

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I can place my plants 12 inches from my ushio super 1000watt hps without them burning. They are getting 146,000 lumens at this distance using a vertical light with no hood. I place my plants around the light. The closest that i have heard for a horizontal light with a good reflector is 24 inches. That means the plants would only get 34,000 lumens ( the inverse square law) and that only lights the top canopyof the plants. Light that has to be reflected is already farther away ( up to 12 inches if it has to travel 6 inches up before being reflected back down) and reflected light cause really hot temps. Vertical bare lights disperse heat a lot better because there is no reflector to trap the heat.


Your lumen numbers are all screwed up. A bare bulb 12" above your plants does not give its full lumen count to the plants. Not even close. If what you were claiming were actually true, reflectors for light bulbs would not exist.

#6
mrgoodsmoke

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I did a 4 way lst then scrog and the middle of my plant was kind of bare. Like a ring of colas with a hole in the center. Would putting my light vertical in the center be better than above? 400w cool tube 6 inches from the canopy right now.

#7
soapman

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Does anyone know which is better, a bare (no reflector) 1000 watt hps vertical light or using a 1000hps horizontal light with a good reflector? I know lights burn cooler without reflectors so they should be able to be placed closer to the plants without burning them and give my plants more light. I always hear that horizontal lighting with a hood is better. But it seems to me that a bare 1000 watt vertical hps hung just below the cannopy would work better because the plants would get more light from top to bottom. You should check out "Urban grower medi grow 40" on you tube and tell me what you think. :)


Try it. Growing is a never ending experiment.

#8
treason222

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Your lumen numbers are all screwed up. A bare bulb 12" above your plants does not give its full lumen count to the plants. Not even close. If what you were claiming were actually true, reflectors for light bulbs would not exist.


They test light lumens at 1, 2, 3, and 4 feet away not right at the light bulb. Here is a picture of a lumen chart out of Jorge cervantes book "Marijuana Horticulture medical growers bible" and a pic of my grow

Attached Thumbnails

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  • IMG00025-20100707-0640.jpg
  • IMG00029-20100707-0642.jpg


#9
treason222

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I just put these plants in flower 2 days ago. they were in veg for 2 weeks.

#10
bulletcatcher

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They test light lumens at 1, 2, 3, and 4 feet away not right at the light bulb. Here is a picture of a lumen chart out of Jorge cervantes book "Marijuana Horticulture medical growers bible" and a pic of my grow


Those aren't numbers from a test. That's taking a canned lumen number and applying the inverse square law while ignoring reality. If you're growing in a mylar-covered box, the inverse square law isn't appropriate to use anymore.

Not to mention that those numbers would be COMPLETELY different if tested with a bare bulb as opposed to one in a reflector. Reflectors focus the light where you actually want it, meaning you get to actually use the lumens it throws (less the reflective loss, usually around 3%). The loss from light just not going towards your plant with a bare bulb will be MUCH greater than 3%. CFLs are good to hang like that because you can put them down between the plants due to their low heat, which then allows good usage of most of the light it's emitting.

edit: not to mention that vertical-hanging CFLs would be a supplemental light source... you'd still want a main source on the tops with a reflector.

Edited by bulletcatcher, 07 July 2010 - 04:05 PM.


#11
treason222

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Check out "[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3IYLv7jwYg"]Urban Grower 40 Medi grow - Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur[/ame]" on YouTube. Tell me what you think of using bare lights in a good set up. I just set up my room like this

#12
406MattNe

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I think there should be a cool-tube atleast, exploding HIDs suck ass.

#13
matthewjohn

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#14
mrsn

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HID bulbs are best used in a reflector. CFLs work best without one, or with a wide parabolic type reflector. The way the tubes are arranged and coated with a phosphor in a CFL creates a bad situation for trying to use a reflector.


i dont think this is a true statment. i think it is all personal choice and depends on you set up.

there is a guy in another forum i am in thats uses vertical lighting and he avg 3.5 lbs a plant with his old system and now he revamped it to try for 10 lbs a plant.

he has an amzing set up each plant gets light from at three sides, in hydro rdwc systems

#15
BumbleBeeHive

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i dont think this is a true statment. i think it is all personal choice and depends on you set up.

there is a guy in another forum i am in thats uses vertical lighting and he avg 3.5 lbs a plant with his old system and now he revamped it to try for 10 lbs a plant.

he has an amzing set up each plant gets light from at three sides, in hydro rdwc systems


Pics or its not true. 3.5 lbs a plant? Lmao...... shooting for 10 pounds a plant? Lol I wanna go to the moon too!

#16
mrsn

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i will post the links to the threads later on tonight. he has grow journals and plenty of pictures. he is a medical grower that has finely tuned his system over a long time and as a sidenote created a new rdwc system that he sold the designs to recently. i recently found him in the past few months i forget who pointed me to him but they have been following his grows for years. i guess this guy runs like five medical gardens.

#17
StinkBomb

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Check out "Urban Grower 40 Medi grow - Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur" on YouTube. Tell me what you think of using bare lights in a good set up. I just set up my room like this


"Hardcore grow tip right there for you". The quote is in reference to the ability to turn the plant containers 90 degrees because of the rollers they sit on. This can be achieved without rollers. Hardcore grow tip. That makes me laugh.

#18
toastybiz

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You definitely can use a 1000w HID vertically without a reflector, best way to do that is what's called a stadium grow. For that you put the light in the center and the plants around it in a circle, on tiered shelving, all facing inward rather than upward. You do still want to cool tube the light, but no reflector because you want the light to go out to plants that are all around 360 degrees. I've seen such setups that daisy-chain multiple 1kw cool tubes running up the center and lots of plants stacked to the ceiling all the way around.

#19
mrsn

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here is his attempt at 10lb plants
doubleds 10 lb plant/room test. - THCfarmer

i will try and find the tree grows thread too and the one where he weighed a plant after harvest and it was 4.2lb and there are others when i find them again i can post for now though im tired and thinking about going to bed

#20
Lay Low

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Vertical HID with no reflector is FAR more efficient than using one horizontally in a hood. Of course you have to grow plants in a circle around the lights in order to take advantage of that efficiency. Vertical grows achieve 1+ grams per watt easily, and get even hit 1.5 g/w iirc. Hanging a bulb vertically while all the plants are below it would be much worse than using it horizontally with a reflector.

Most efficient use of vertical bulbs is no reflector and plants on all sides surrounding the bulb.

Most efficient in horizontal use is with a reflector, and the most efficient reflector as far as I know are the Adjust-a-Wings.

Edited by Lay Low, 19 March 2011 - 04:45 AM.





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