would something like this help at all: Coleman Cable 02821 Plug-In Quad GFCI Converter with 6-Feet 20-AMP 12/3-Wire Gauge Cord http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-02821-Converter-6-Feet/dp/B00004SQGY
There is nothing you can plug into your wall to get you more power. You would need two circuits as well to run all of that. The common household outlet only has a max rating of 15 amps. 14/2 is the most common wire used to wire a house. If you were to put a 30amp breaker in place of a 15, this 14/2 wire will heat up and could catch fire. 10/2 is what you need to properly run 30amps. Or you can run extension cords from another room to have multiple 15 amp circuits.
I am currently running 1400 watt of HID light plus fans, pumps, etc all on a 15A breaker & @ 120V. I want to step up to 2K watt w/o messing with a panel or sub panel. Based on what I've read from this, I can run 2K @ 240V just by having an electrician swap out a couple outlets on that breaker. So I would still only be using just over 8 amps for light, but do I need to run a thicker wire to my main panel or will the original wiring (to the panel) be able to house the additional wattage, even if it's @ 240V?? I hope my question makes sense. Thanks in advance
No, wire size does not matter when it comes to voltage. I could run 100000v and still be fine, it's all about the current (amps) at which it's flowing at. The breaker will have to be changed to a 240v breaker, be sure that your ballast can operate under 240v, if it plugged into the standard household outlet they are 120v, and you need to by ballast specific for 240v. There is not outlet that an electrician can install that is 240v, it involves switching out the breaker.
sweet man, I love the 1000 watt ballasts I'm using they have both plugs for 120/240 and can run MH or HPS. I understand what you are saying about the amps but my next question would be, if I switch the breaker to 240, what does that mean for my 120V axial fans, inline fans, water/air amps and all those little things? Do I need to run those on a different breaker cuz that wont work with my grow.
Thanks in advance for your help. I have a question about HPS lights and their ballasts. My space is 14.5 x 14.5 x 60"H, and the only HPS grow light I can find that fits my space is the 150W Floralux from HTG supply. High Tech Garden Supply But there is something that concerns me about the Floralux: it doesn't have the specs. printed on the light, and it's not UL listed. What I'd like to know is how much extra heat there will be from the ballast. I emailed HTG and asked about the current draw during operation, and they said 1.25 amps. It seems that they just divided 150W by 120V to give me that answer. This can't be right, and it doesn't inspire confidence. I have read that HPF (High Power Factor) ballasts have a Power Factor of .9 or greater. I'm assuming the Floralux is not an HPF ballast, else they would boast it in their ad. Is there a general range of current that these ballasts draw? If so, I could assume the highest amperage and estimate the heat it would emit. Ideally I would get a remote ballast system, and HTG has one for about $70, but the hood is too big for my space. I also have another issue -- the building I live in is old, and the outlets are two-prong (no ground). There may be a ground wire inside the receptacles, I'm not sure. Is there any special hazard with using an HPS ballast without a ground? I've been thinking that I should install GFCI outlets, which can be wired without ground. Would a GFCI interfere with a magnetic ballast? I've heard of harmonic disturbance or distortion but I don't understand it.
Is it possible to simply convert a 120V outlet to a 240V outlet without running another 120V circuit? Devices use 1/2 the amps on 240V, but the power (Watts) used is the same (P=IV), so the line has to be able to handle the load either way. I always thought that to get a 240V circuit I'd have to use two 120V circuits. Not true? Also, where I live it is usually not possible to just add another circuit from ones breaker panel. Usually, additional circuits have to be run from the street, by the utility company. I live in an old neighborhood so it's probably different with new or relatively recent construction. That is, I'm sure many people do have unused circuits on their breaker panel; it's just not common where I live.
HTG was right when they said it only draws draws 1.25 amps. When ever you needed to find amps just divide the watts by volts you are right. No you can't change a regular outlet to 240v unfortunately the breaker does have to be changed out. Watts is the same as power, easily said watts is the powering being used. On a normal 120v system, there is a neutral wire, on a 240v system, that neutral wire is now hot and contains 120v as well. Ill give you an example of why it uses the same watts(power) but uses 1/2 the amps. Take an empty swimming pool for example, say that pool is your ballast. You run a garden hose over to it and start filling it up, this garden hose can represent the 120v wire. No matter what, the hose will always be 120v, you now turn it on a little bit and you have some water coming out, not much but some. We can say the hose is 120v, and the "flow" of water just like the "flow" of electricity is very low. Since flow and current is used to measure amps, we can say the hose is running at a very low amperage. Now you go back to the tap and turn the hose on full blast to fill your pool. Now the hose is 120v with the max amount of current (amps) flowing threw that it can handle. Now you run a second hose over to your swimming pool, just like another 120v line to your ballast, you realize that you are using 240v (two garden hoses) but you now have WAY more flow. Now the first hose doesn't have to run full blast (max amps) you can down turn it 1/2 off because your other line is handling 1/2 the load. So even know your ballast can be 120v or 240v, its still going to take the same amount of water (or power/watts) to fill it, just with two line it's allot more efficient.
Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were saying that he could have a 240V outlet on his existing 15A or 20A 120V circuit. But I would have to disagree with you that it's a lot more efficient to run 240v. True that electricity travels more efficiently at higher voltages because resistance is less. But this represents a savings for the power company, mostly. The distance of travel within one's home is so small that it's only a tiny bit more efficient. At least this is how I understand it. (I took Physics 101, but that was many years ago!) About the 150W HPS being 1.25 Watts -- that would be for the lamp alone. The ballast must use something?
those small 150W HPS lights actually draw around 190 or so watts, so your whole light setup is going to use about 1.5 amps. thats 190watts/120volts= 1.5 amps. like sativanya said most breakers are 15 amp max, so you'll be fine.
Its more efficient in the way that it uses less amps to do the same amount of work, watts consumed will never change. For example a central air conditioner on an average residential house uses 240v with a breaker about 30-40 amps. If this was 120v it would use 60-80 amps and allot of houses around here only have 100amp service. So using 240v in certain situations (normally high amp drawing appliances) is a more efficient way of powering it.
Thanks! My concern is heat, not power. So, if my current set-up can handle the heat from 190W of CFLs, I should be okay with a 150W HPS? I'm not at that point yet (I'm waiting on another fan that's in the mail), but I don't want to buy a 150W HPS only to find out that it's too much heat.
yea you should be ok. those small HPS's dont get too ridiculously hot, not like their higher-wattaged cousins. if you have a fan in there you'll be fine
Okay, assuming I have 100 Amp service on 5 x 20 Amp circuits. If I want to install a 240V air conditioner, I would need to take two of my cirucits and dedicate them to one 240V circuit. However, wouldn't this new 240V circuit be capable of handling only 20A at 240V? That's equivalent to 2 x 120V circuits @ 20A each (P=IV, and P must remain constant). In other words, 2 x 120V x 20A = 4800W 1 x 240V x 20A = 4800W It doesn't seem that one is more efficient than the other, it's just that if you need more than 2400W of power on one circuit, you'd have to combine 2 circuits and make it 240V.
I can't answer the tought stuff, but yes- HTG is lying to ya. They're applying ohms law etc to try to solve for power consumption, but they're not reminding you to account for the so called "transformer loss" associated with an iron core ballast (the fixture you're talking about isn't digital). The bulb draws 150Watts of power, but that doesn't mean the whole system draws 150watts of power... The light you're talking about probably draws an actual 200 watts or so overall... I HATE. The way they trick people into thinking the light uses 150 watts of power. It's not true. The light bulb draws 150 watts of power through the ballast. The ballast always draws more. Check out this link: Product Category: Components | Sunlight Supply: Indoor Horticulture Wholesale, Organics, and Supplies It's Sun-Systems replacement parts page. It's where you'd go to look up the part number for a new ballast if yours blew up. Click the ballasts link at the top: Replacement Ballasts - Sunlight Supply: Hydrogarden Wholesalers It doesn't actually tell you a part number, but it does tell you that the replacement ballast you order will be either "advance transformer" brand, or "Universal transformer" brand... So........... Go to somewhere where you can see the actual spec sheets for those ballasts: Advance specsheet: http://www.1000bulbs.com/images/PDF/Advance-71A8172-Specsheet.pdf Universal specsheet: couldn't find... Anyway, if you read the "input watts" section of the spec-sheet, it says 188watts operating... As for "high power factor" ballasts... I'm not sure what that means... Take it with a grain of salt but here's how I get it: Since the wattage drawn by a HID bulb is bound to be different than the wattage drawn by the entire light fixture, there needs to be a unit of measure to express the relation between the two. Enter the "power factor." The power factor is a number, and it's expressed as a percent, ex: 90% power factor, 95% power factor, 99% power factor etc. (again I'm guessing here BUT) The percentage means how much of the total power drawn by the ballast is going to the bulb. Example: "600 watt digital ballast with a 90% power factor." What would that mean? 600 watts is the size bulb it takes, so when the device is turned on, you know the bulb is drawing 600 watts. Since the ballast is a 90% power factor, that means that 90% of the power the box draws outta the wall socket, still makes it to the bulb. Soooooooooooo, to answer the question "how much power does this thing really use?" you would have to figure out what number of watts can still experience a 10% loss (100% minus 90% power factor = 10%) and still have 600 watts left to deliver. Expressed algebraicly it would look like this: 90% * "X"=600Watts Divide each side by 90%, and it looks like this: 600Watts/.9="X", where "X" represents the number of total wattage used by the light fixture. "X"= 667 watts... That's how I get it anyway, I'll let sativa straighten me out if it's wrong... Hope this helps
CFL weasel did the right math and guessing. There is a loss with most transformers, however in an iron core transformer it is a voltage loss. You cannot "lose" current (amps) because it is based off of the resistance of the circuit. However, since watts = voltage x amperage, a voltage loss IS a wattage loss in your ballast. Simply, yes you lose a small amount of watts (via voltage loss) in your transformer. Vashingopal, i was somewhat confused on what you are asking, but allow me to elaborate on simpler terms? Electricity is simply electrons flowing. Voltage is the pressure of the flow, the more voltage there is the more electrical force there is, therefore that is why electrical motors run more efficiently off higher voltage. I debate often if a higher voltage will creates more light, or perhaps raises the distance light can travel, yet i have no factual answer. However, wire size is always fixed and will only carry the rated amperage regardless of voltage. And because voltage is simply electrical pressure, you can use the same amount of energy with more voltage flowing less amps.
Wow, thanks for all the responses. UBSmoker -- I was typing when you posted and I didn't see your post! I'm sure you're right that the extra wattage is not that much, but I currently have 128W of CFLs, and my temps are 80 - 85F, so I can't even add another CFL until I get the 2nd exhaust fan (tomorrow, I hope). So, every Watt is an issue! I just have this feeling that it might be better to spend an extra $20 or $25 even if it saves me only 15 or 20W, because in my tiny space 20W might be the difference between 80 and 85. " CFLWeasel -- I couldn't agree with you more! The worst part is that they don't give specs freely so it's impossible to comparison shop! There should be a law that forces them to give specs. If they don't list the light with UL, they don't even have to KNOW the specs! Thanks for those links. Notice that the Advance balast by Philips says "Power Factor (min) 90%." (I'm paraphrasing -- I clicked out of it and now it's not loading.) I think Power Factor is important because it tells you the efficiency of the fixture. You are right in how you're interpreting it. One of the formal definitions is (from Wiki): "The power factor of an AC electric power system is defined as the ratio of the real power flowing to the load to the apparent power." (Sorry bout those underlines, I can't get rid of them.) Real power is the wattage used to do useful work (in this case 150W bulb). Apparent power is the actual power being consumed, as measured by a scope or some some other device. So, in the case of the Philips Advance ballast, the Power Factor, or PF = 150W/188W or PF = .8. HEY, wait a minute, are they lying, too? That's not 90%. Either I'm doing something wrong or they are. When I get my heat issues under control I might just go to the local hydro store and pester a geek. If they can set me up with something that's not dodgy about its specs I'll pay the extra money for it. If I could find a 100W or 120W HPS that would be even better. I know I could get an HPS security light, but I really wanted to get something that was "plug and grow", and easy to hang. Regarding electronic ballasts -- I didn't study up on them because I haven't seen any that are 150W or less, but they must exist. Are they more efficient? I'm gonna google it and try to learn about it. Moto, I was asking about the power used by HPS ballasts, but I got side-tracked on the 120/240V discussion. So, are you saying that you save on wire with 240V vs 120V? That makes sense. Regarding higher voltage creating more light -- I don't see how that could be possible, because the power is the same. That is, the energy consumed is the same. With respect to how far light can travel, I think that has more to do with the general properties of light. In a vacuum, light can travel an inifinite distance, right? (That's why we can see the light from distant stars that don't even exist anymore.) Re: Transformers, The purpose of a transformer is to step the voltage up or down, isn't it? I know that transformers "lose" power in the form of heat, because when I touch them they are warm. They can never be 100% efficient. Interesting point about motors being more efficient on 240V. I did not know that. This is all very interesting. I had wanted to just buy a light to grow some dank, but then I had to go and "do my research" before buying (a hangup I have), and it's a fun ride, though frustrating when vendors won't tell you what you want to know!! It's real nice to be able to come on this board and discuss it -- you folks are great!
Basically yea lol. I should have said it is a more effective way of powering it not "efficient". Thanks for clearing that up I didn't want to confuses anyone Oh and yea with the air conditioner, you can buy breakers that are doubled up, and have spots to connect 2 wires, you can also remove the neutral wire from the neutral bar, and hook it up to another 15amp single breaker. But remember to turn them both off or you will still have a live lead there. Good thing about the double240v breakers is that both switches are connected so they turn off simultaneously. The wire size is fine.
vashigopal- I agree on you with the power factor. It's not 90% they're f*cking lying about that too man... I talk about some of that shit in one of my older threads here: http://forum.grasscity.com/general-...out-using-150w-hps-dont-bother-heres-why.html If you take the time to read through it, it's kinda like a time capsule- that's mostly how I felt about 150W HPS 2 years ago; and now I'm buying one- go figure. Also, there are two brands that offer a 150W HPS digital ballast. Not sure how long these have been for sale but here they are: HIDHUT's house brand 150W HPS 99% power factor digital ballast. Discount Grow Lights - - 150W HPS Ballast, Bulb and Economy Reflector Combo I ordered it and I'm already getting impatient hahaha. Galaxy: Galaxy Digital Ballasts - - Galaxy 150 Watt Digital HPS Ballast 120 / 240V Galaxy Digital Ballasts - - Galaxy 150-175-250 Select-A-Watt Electronic Ballast 120/240V Hope that helps... -Weasel