Before I got sick, my parents had been paying into an insurance plan for me for 18 years and I had been paying into a plan for myself for 7. When I got sick, my insurance dumped my in less that 90 days. For the thousands of dollars that were paid into the system in my name for 25 years, I got less than three months of dialysis treatments. And sure, you can go to an emergency room and get a broken bone set or get immediate treatment for a heart attack, but you can't get follow up care, you can't get Chemotherapy or Kidney Dialysis. I have been turned away from doctor's offices because I don't have insurance. I had cash to pay for the visit, but they wouldn't accept it. Because one visit might turn into more than the $150 doctor visit and they didn't even want waste their time starting to treat me if I couldn't prove I could pay for the MRI's they may need to do, or for the meds they may prescribe. I was turned away. I was a fairly successful person before I got sick. I had a steady job, I was working on my education. I had savings. But my job couldn't accomodate a dialysis schedule and keep me full time. So I got canned. And once I was on COBRA, the insurance company started playing games. I got setup at one dialysis center that was on the list of places they covered, then they told me it was "out of network" for my particular plan (even though it was 20 miles from my house) and I'd have to go to another dialysis center 100 miles away. I started going there, then a few weeks later the social worker at that center told me they were not paying for that one either and if I didn't sign a paper canceling my insurance right then and there, I'd be disconnected from the machine and sent home and couldn't come back until I qualified for Medicaid. I fought with the insurance company for a week over it, but a week without treatment for someone on dialysis is a long time. And in the end it was Medicaid or no treatments. Qualifying for Medicaid means you can't have any assets. You have to sell everything you own to pay your bills before Medicaid will take you. As a result, people who get sick who get dicked over by their insurance company end up broke. The system works now for 90% of the population because 90% of the population don't have chronic medical problems. But if your system only works for people who aren't sick, then it's not really a healthcare system. It's an insurance pyramid scheme. Pay in, pay in, pay in. Oh, you want to take money back out? Sorry, we don't do that. If this bill makes it harder for Insurance Companies to dump sick people, then it's worth doing. And in five years, people will see that it's not the end of the world. That there aren't long lines or death panels. The insurance companies will still keep making huge profits, but maybe just not quite as huge. The world will go on.
so under in this new bill, you and your power lifting wife could get insurance even with your ADD and her formerly herniated disk. what personal sacrifices are you going to have to make to outweigh the benefit of you getting health insurance?
I did say "the worst part for me", and then my next paragraph was "the worst part for the country"... didn't I... I thought so... Yes, I can get another job... but when the hospitals are saturated with medical professionals who close their private practices - or worse yet sell them to hospitals conglomerates to stay alive - what will happen to all the OTHER medical professionals who don't have a position waiting for them at the hospitals? There will be NO competition, no incentive for The Best Neurosurgeon in the world to give you better treatment than The Worst Neurosurgeon in the world, because they'll both get paid the same based on their level of SCHOOLING, rather than their level of SKILL. This is the beginning of Socialism in this country... I hope you enjoy it when your formerly $20,000 a year job turns into a $15,000 a year job because the guy that was sitting on his ass doing nothing, is now entitled to $5,000 of your money and $5,000 of your wife's money, and $5,000 of my money, so we can all make $15,000 a year and be "equal"... "From Each according to his ability, to Each according to his needs... " - Karl Marx - the father of Modern Socialism "One of the consequences of such notions as "entitlements" is that people who have contributed nothing to society feel that society owes them something, apparently just for being nice enough to grace us with their presence." - Thomas Sowell "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill "Socialism is workable only in heaven where it isn't needed, and in hell where they've got it" - Cecil Palmer - LOL "Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion" - Richard John Neuhaus - How fucking true... the same people who support this bill, also support the removal of "God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.
If I had meant "personal sacrifices" I probably would have specified "personal sacrifices"... the bill is 110% unconstitutional. It is not even close to being in the power of Congress to pass this bill. The sacrifices I'm talking about are the BIG picture... losing our individuality, losing our rights, and losing our ability to make our government work FOR us, instead of us working FOR the government. You have no idea how much this will cost... Tell me how we're going to pay for it, and stop personally attacking me when you don't have the answers, and if you convince me that we can afford it, I might actually join you in believing that it's a good idea. But when a new medical plan is going to cost hundreds of billions a year in taxpayer money... and we're already 14 trillion in debt... I question the judgement of Congress... especially since 60%+ of the population of this country OPPOSED the bill.... You realize 80%+ of the population of this country support legalizing medical marijuana... but the congress won't do that because Big Pharma, Big Hospitals, and Big Conglomerates like Dow and Monsanto would lose money... but implementing Universal Healthcare, something that the MAJORITY of this country opposes, that's ok because Big Pharma, Big Hospitals, and Big Conglomerates like Dow and Monsanto stand to rake in BILLIONS in profits. EDIT... I said EX WIFE...
i was hoping for your own sake that you wouldn't bust this whole thread out into a big right-wing circle jerk of socialism and illegal aliens, yet you did. if we are here to talk about healthcare that's fine, but your last post could be spewed just fine with a DUDE I SO DRUNJ I DID PCP BRO thread over in pandora's box. and this God that is getting taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance by the healthcare supporters inspired some guy to write this in some book called Proverbs (29:7) The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern. that guy Jesus seemed like a total marxist socialist too IMO. ps- gosarahpalindrillbabydrillreigninspendingtakebackourcountry
free health care in Canada> whatever the states have. People don't go to the states for health care, nor Cuba. Your source please?
This could have been solved without a Single Payer System, which is what we're gonna get in 2014 when this shit goes into effect. This stuff isn't instant. There's four simple things that would have solved everything that this bill is attempting to solve, but will fail because we can't afford it. 1. Make it illegal for insurance companies to DROP clients who get sick. - once you're a client, you're a client for life... 2. Make it illegal to reject applicants or place riders on policies due to pre-existing conditions - enough people pay in to private heath insurance companies that paying for the 5-10% of people that NEED healthcare right now, won't dent their profits THAT much... 3. Make it a LAW that insurance companies have to pay for preventative medicine, not just treatments after the fact. - The insurance companies would actually make a LOT more if they did this, while lowering the profits of Big Pharma, who this bill benefits most anyway. 4. Make it so your premiums can still go up if you get sick, but only by 5% per year maximum. Simple, effective, and totally within the powers of Congress per the General Welfare Clause of the Constitution. And by the way, so I don't sound like an insensitive prick, I am sorry that you are suffering, and if it were within MY means, I would voluntarily donate to your cause... but forcing me to pay for everyone's healthcare is a violation of my individual rights, and indeed, everyone's individual rights.
Sorry that you got sick bro, but I'm having trouble affording rent every month, and now I have to help pay your bills? I'm guessing you won't return the favor by helping me pay rent, huh?
Anyone who chooses not to purchase medical insurance will now be a criminal subject to fines or prosecution. They just got fucked Retired people who paid taxes their whole life and depend on Medicaid for their health care just got fucked. The guy who works for a small company that doesn't provide medical benefits and pays $200 a week for his family's medical insurance will now pay higher premiums. If he can't afford the increase, he has to cancel his plan but probably still earns too much to qualify for a government subsidized one even though his tax dollars are paying for it. Read the first paragraph again. He just got fucked. I could give more examples but you get the idea. Surely there's a better way to provide coverage for the 10% who don't have it than to screw the 90% who do (except of course Congress and big unions who will wind up exempt). This bill is not about helping those in need. It's about political posturing and back scratching. As much as they like to demonize the insurance companies, the Obama administration just sold 30 million new policies for them. And you still can't shop across state lines for insurance. And why no tort reform??? Oh yeah, because the American bar supports Democrats. People bitch about the Republicans' support for big business but are the Democrats any different? What this bill essentially does is screw 9 people to "help" 1 and provide a windfall for that chunk of corporate America that supports and funds the Democrats. This is a classic case of same shit, different day but on a much larger scale.
LOL... I don't like Sarah Palin, so thanks for that... it was a riot. I'm a Libertarian... and as I said in my last post, I would gladly - if it were within my means - donate my time, money, and love to those in need, voluntarily, without the government telling me I have to. I care very much about justice for the poor. I joined the Marines right out of high school to defend this country, not because I felt like being a fucking hero or some shit. I have only told the plain and honest truth in this thread. Can you debunk anything I've said about socialism or illegal aliens? If you can, I'd love to see your stats and figures...
how is the government not working for you if it is providing health care? how is healthcare making you less of an individual? seriously. will i stop being a musician because i will no longer empty out a 2 week paycheck to get some tamiflu at the doctor? i have every idea how much it'll cost it'll cost $940 billion dollars, but that money will be spend and can be spent on making the next generation of Americans more health conscious and hopefully not fucking obese. to give some perspective, our wars abroad have cost about $973 trillion to this day. the deficit increases another trillion dollars, yet it increased around $5T under the previous administration. at least we get the pleasure of paying off something that actually has some fucking worth to it as opposed to a broke ass bush pharmaceutical bill that cost $550B and left pill companies unregulated.
Amy Ridenour's National Center Blog: Canadian Cancer Patient Fights Bureaucracy in Desperate Fight for Life My dad had Stage 4 Colon Cancer 5 years ago... If he were living in Canada when he was diagnosed, he would have died. Thankfully we lived in Wisconsin, home of some of the BEST Cancer Research hospitals in the world, all funded privately, and paid into by private insurance companies... The cancer metastasized to his liver, and he endured 4 years of chemotherapy drugs and clinical trials. My dad is still alive today, and not just alive, but 100% cancer free. Stage 4 cancer means "INOPERABLE" and "TERMINAL"... My dad should be dead, but he's not because of Free Market Healthcare. If we had Universal Health Care then.... the government would have told my dad they wouldn't pay for his meds... just like the woman from Canada. I could throw HUNDREDS of links of Canadian and British patients coming here for treatment - and NO, not just the ones with money... that's a line of bullshit if I've ever heard one - but I'll let you stew with that one link, and the story of my dad's MIRACULOUS recovery.
Weren't you paying attention when that one Canadian politician crossed the border for US health care? Well, he did, and it riled up the opposing party.
This... ^^^ I have to live with my parents because I can't afford to pay rent AND all my other bills... now I have yet another bill to pay, because someone else is sick. And seriously Renaldo, I am sorry that you're sick... but it shouldn't be my "responsibility" to pay for your care, it should be my right to decide if I will volunteer my services, money, heart, and time to your individual condition.... which I would.
you said earlier that 2/3 of the 32M american's covered under this plan were illegal aliens so if that is your plain and honest truth maybe you need to pay attention (try) to the definitions of plain and honest.
Okay, she went to new York because the governement couldn't fork over THAT much on an individual, do you have any idea how many Americans come to Canada for the health care? Hell, I can name 8 families in my area who came from the states just for free health care. I've never known a Canadian who prefers your system over our own. Thems the breaks bro.
bullshit they legally cannot do that another bullshit your little bitch pelosi is the skank that helped with the bush admins debt second she become speaker debt quickly raised WOW what a concept. So now Obamas admins thinks that making the debt deeper makes it somehow disappear where the fuck is the common sense anymore i'm standing with dragon on this we are loosing our rights daily so much for being free we better change our national anthem to fit this unfree country we are becoming
1. There is no public option to pay for. 2. By requiring young healthy people to buy insurance, it offsets forcing the insurance companies to (GASP!) actually pay for sick people. 3. Death Panels is Republican hysteria speak for sitting down with your Dr. and next of kin to write a living will. A living will is something everyone should have. Not just old people of sick people. The way it is now, you may think you have a right to not have insurance and you may think you have a right to not have health insurance, but the Doctor at the emergency room doesn't have the right to not treat you. If you don't have a living will, the Dr. is obligated to do everything he can to keep you alive. Even if half you skull is gone, if there is a machine that can keep you alive, he is legally obligated to use it on you. But your next of kin is not obligated to pay the bills. If you have a living will, you are telling the Doctor "I want you to do up to X to keep me alive and here's who is going to pay for it." So how much money gets wasted keeping people alive indefinitely on machines that can't possibly ever regain consciousness? How much money could have been saved if Terry Schaivo was not kept alive for 5 years as a vegetable? Do you know how much 24 hour care and all those machines cost? If she had a living will saying "I don't want to be kept alive as a vegetable" all that money could have been saved. I can't see how anybody would want to go through life without a living will. I've had one since I was 25. And before that the only reason I didn't have one was because I didn't know what one was. A lot of people don't have one because they don't want to think about that sad day when they get sick or die. But your refusal to accept that it's going to happen doesn't make it not happen. It just makes it harder on your family and doctor when it does happen. And if you do want to be kept alive for years on a machine, all a living will does is force you to decide who to burden with the bills instead of dumping that cost on Medicare, Medicaid or the hospital. Thus reducing cost to the system. So right there is three ways we are going to pay for it. And since it's not "free healthcare for anybody anytime" there really isn't that much to pay for. It's mostly just saying that the insurance company can't take money from you for premiums for 30 years, then dump you when you start costing them money.