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Whats the best co2 system on the market

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  • Dec 02 2009 05:07 AM
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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:07 AM

So I'm looking for a CO2 system. Not going to use yeast and sugar as this is a 10x12 room with a bunch of girls.

So what is a good controller and co2 generator on the market. I don't want the most expensive, just a good controller that will shut off the exhaust fan while the CO2 is on and keep it at a 1500 PPM automatically.

Also what about the water cooled CO2 generator from Hydrogen? Does anyone use this? I want the generator to produce minimal heat. and not have to go through tanks every week.

Please guide me in the right direction to choose a controller and CO2 generator for around $1000.

thanks.
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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:50 AM


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Posted 02 December 2009 - 06:52 PM

I have a 10x10 room which i used a CAP GEN-1e with two additional burners(came with 2)which was IIRC ~13 cubic feet of Co2 an hr.(enough to fill the room to 1500ppm in less than 5 min IIRC.

This room is sealed and AC-ed and it worked OK but the heat was excessively high,then i moved from that 800plus cubic foot room to a 220 cubic foot tent thinking it would work out even better since it would only need to burn for one min every 15.

Had to also add a 70qt dehumidifier because i was flowering in the tent at that time and between the burner,dehumidifier and AC(which BTW is electronic and runs 24/7 cycling cold air much of the time to keep temps at 84F.(where it should be with 1500-2000ppm Co2).

I must add only the twin tube AC was on a closed loop,the 400w. was not cooled at all and the power consumption was horrendous.

Now this tent is set up for that 400w. and a 1K(which BTW is water and air cooled)and my plan was to loop the hot side of the AC to both lights and a 4" can-fan as a booster to keep the tent as cool as possible which i will still do soon.

The NG plumed and used for that sized room was almost undetectable on the bill and never needed refilling which was the best part.

Now i cannot say what really was responsible for the heat but surely everything added to it.

My dehumidifier does cycle completely off when not used but late in flower it needs to keep RH so low that it does run almost all the time.

The AC(even though it is a 2 tube design)and the Burner was a close second for heat as far as i could tell with the light adding the least.

Looping the AC and light/lights in and out very well could have made allot of difference.

The need to mount that burner away from things 18" was nearly impossible cause my plan in this 4x8' footprint included a 3x6 hydro tray for my 6 BB system which left me with only a 4x2 footprint left for the AC,dehumidifier,CF-8" can-fan and burner.

My hydro place offered to exchange the burner for a reg and tanks and also said they had that water cooled burner too.

I didn't think twice about that burner at the time but now since i am because i already have 50 gallons of chilled water for my H2o cooled light.

Chunk:I can't get your links to open.:confused:

I need to know how far/close it can be mounted to tent sides.:confused:

My CAP i found for ~$300 which is everywhere for $450 and the Sentenal is proly VERY close to the same quality and output.

As far as meter/controllers go,you will NEED one which is smart and has the ability to read RH/Temp and Co2 ppm and exhaust accordingly which the CAP and Sentenal both can do.

IMHO the Sentenal has far more options and abilities over the CAP.

I love my CAP and know they make QUALITY stuff no matter what it is and they WILL stand behind everything they make 100%.(i am not easily impressed and they have impressed me more than once).

Meters/monitors can be found used on E-bay (CAP ones can be fixed by CAP or exchanged for a fraction of retail)for $200-$500.

Burners for your size room are $300-$450 new.(not the cooled ones)

Regulators for Co2 can be found for $100 online(even good CAP ones)there are ay least two regs with different outputs so do check.

The aluminum tanks are about $150 new and can be found at welding/beer keg places for $110 new.

Used steel tanks(very heavy) are under $100.

Exchanging/filling tanks are $20-$30 and some will fill "your" nice new clean tank OR exchange it for a pile of crap looking tank,call and ask if this is important to you.

Tanks must be "hydro tested" every 5 years to be filled(DOT requirement)so look for the last stamp date if you want a used tank so you don't get stuck with another hydro bill soon after.

My reg is still in the box and my tanks are yet to come in SO i still can think about that water cooled burner since i have gas into that room,links and any info on it would be great as i was going to see if my tanks were in today.

Would love a cool burner i could put inches away from the canopy and tent sides.:D

HTH

OCI

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 02:56 AM

i've had a sentinel chhc-1 for one grow now, im happy with it.....And i haven't even used "co2 fuzzy logic" on it yet....... I just got a 20lbs tank and a regulator with solenoid, so in a month or so i'll be all good to go...

my only question left i have is....using co2,or having my ppm of co2 in my room at 1300-1600ppm what effects will this do to the room temp and r/h????does having high co2ppm raise temps or r/h???? thx.

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:53 AM

i've had a sentinel chhc-1 for one grow now, im happy with it.....And i haven't even used "co2 fuzzy logic" on it yet....... I just got a 20lbs tank and a regulator with solenoid, so in a month or so i'll be all good to go...

my only question left i have is....using co2,or having my ppm of co2 in my room at 1300-1600ppm what effects will this do to the room temp and r/h????does having high co2ppm raise temps or r/h???? thx.

When using gas there is no change but using a burner the temp goes up and the RH down.

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 06:44 AM

thx ocitown.... all im missing for a cge is a dehumidfier. but i'd like to run it as is, before....

thx for the info.

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 12:44 AM

This is all really good info thanks. I think the sentienal is the way to go with controllers and prob the tanks to start as I don't want to by de-humidifies and such. I'm bringing in fresh air, and have exhaust, so that paired with the co2 system and I think I should be dialed. Again thanks for all the info.

Oh ya, has anyone used Harvest Master for a controller?

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 06:02 PM

This is all really good info thanks. I think the sentienal is the way to go with controllers and prob the tanks to start as I don't want to by de-humidifies and such. I'm bringing in fresh air, and have exhaust, so that paired with the co2 system and I think I should be dialed. Again thanks for all the info.

Oh ya, has anyone used Harvest Master for a controller?

"Your" ability to avoid a dehumidifier will depend on several factors which only you will know when you are well into flower where you live and the RH you intake into the room.

A full room of plants in flower(the bigger the more of an issue it will be)will only be as low RH as the intakes air and most likely higher if not vented all the time.

Molded flowers i can say is not worth the chance IMO,BUT i also have done well w/o as well.

Good room air movement is crucial w/o the dehumidifier mid to late flower and the higher the wattage the denser the flower as well.

I found a Sears 70 pint floor unit for $90 and it kicks ass on low,they do make ALLOT of heat though.:(

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 10:24 AM

When using gas there is no change but using a burner the temp goes up and the RH down.


Don't you mean RH goes up? Burning hydrocarbons generates a lot of water.

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 07:18 AM

Don't you mean RH goes up? Burning hydrocarbons generates a lot of water.



I think he is refering to the heat given off by the co2 burner which would rise temps and lower r/h...

but if tons of dehumidified water was sitting in the room it will effect the rooms r/h as you said and the r/h indeed will go up.


And while i got you here. What is the recommended co2 ppm?? 1300ppm,1500ppm? I've read so many numbers.
thx in advance..

Edited by Mr.Tangent, 07 December 2009 - 07:22 AM.


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Posted 07 December 2009 - 10:09 PM

Ocitown, I can't believe the coincidence- Here I am thinking about setting up a water cooled burner, the minigen, and you're considering it right at he same time! Great minds. . .

My question for you is this: I've got plans for RDWC, 2 plant tubs, 1 res, about 15 gallons total. I keep my house about 75-80 in the summer. You've seen my little closet with the 400w cooltube.

Do you think I could use the solution to cool a minigen (1250 btu) which was only servicing 80 cubic feet, AND keep the solution at 68/70 (or whatever it should be) with my cl-280 (1/10hp) chiller?

It seems feasible but I just don't know what this old chiller will "really do."

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:16 AM

Don't you mean RH goes up? Burning hydrocarbons generates a lot of water.


I think he is refering to the heat given off by the co2 burner which would rise temps and lower r/h...

but if tons of dehumidified water was sitting in the room it will effect the rooms r/h as you said and the r/h indeed will go up.


And while i got you here. What is the recommended co2 ppm?? 1300ppm,1500ppm? I've read so many numbers.
thx in advance..

Had this conversation before,"MY" RH went down whenever i used the burner,that is a fact,and AC and dehumidifier were also used at dif times but the fact the RH went down with the burner was indeed what happened every time.;)

1500-2000ppm

Edited by ocitown, 08 December 2009 - 06:18 AM.


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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:19 AM

is 1500ppm the recommended co2 setting????

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:22 AM

Ocitown, I can't believe the coincidence- Here I am thinking about setting up a water cooled burner, the minigen, and you're considering it right at he same time! Great minds. . .

My question for you is this: I've got plans for RDWC, 2 plant tubs, 1 res, about 15 gallons total. I keep my house about 75-80 in the summer. You've seen my little closet with the 400w cooltube.

Do you think I could use the solution to cool a minigen (1250 btu) which was only servicing 80 cubic feet, AND keep the solution at 68/70 (or whatever it should be) with my cl-280 (1/10hp) chiller?

It seems feasible but I just don't know what this old chiller will "really do."

My HF 1/10th will chill 40 gallons so i would think it should work,i would call the company and just ask them to be sure.

What old chiller do you have,amp draw as well?

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:27 AM

is 1500ppm the recommended co2 setting????

The problem for Co2 rooms is keeping it at a stable ppm all the time.

If you set 1500ppm it may drop to a much lower ppm,depends on many factors.

Some say 1500ppm is optimum while others say 2000ppm,the fact that Co2 is toxic in HUGE amts. is not an issue near 2000ppm and when set to 2000ppm it could fluctuate down to 1500ppm.

I like to error on the side my plants may benefit from whenever possible.:D

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:28 AM

My HF 1/10th will chill 40 gallons so i would think it should work,i would call the company and just ask them to be sure.

What old chiller do you have,amp draw as well?



Pacific Coast Imports CL 280:
Micro Sized And Thermo Electric Chillers - D&T Aquarium Supplies- Product Info - 1/10 Horsepower Pacific Coast chiller unit model CL-280

One like that. It seems to work fine, I've tested it, I'm just not sure how much "1250" btus really is compared to the chiller, and how dangerous it is to use the nutes as the cooling fluid for the minigen . . . Any thoughts appreciated as this is my ultimate plan if it will work.

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:36 AM

Pacific Coast Imports CL 280:
Micro Sized And Thermo Electric Chillers - D&T Aquarium Supplies- Product Info - 1/10 Horsepower Pacific Coast chiller unit model CL-280

One like that. It seems to work fine, I've tested it, I'm just not sure how much "1250" btus really is compared to the chiller, and how dangerous it is to use the nutes as the cooling fluid for the minigen . . . Any thoughts appreciated as this is my ultimate plan if it will work.

"YOU" could build a res inside your res with pure water and another pump to cool the burner.

IIRC the H2o burner works by the pump being on so you would need to hook up a Co2 ppm meter to the pump for the burner if that is the same way it works.;)

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:19 AM

"YOU" could build a res inside your res with pure water and another pump to cool the burner.

IIRC the H2o burner works by the pump being on so you would need to hook up a Co2 ppm meter to the pump for the burner if that is the same way it works.;)



So hey OC, what way did you go with this? Any news on the best CO2 system front?

By the way, thanks for the compliment but I need the help of you experienced guys to figure out my real needs. I'm just not sure how to best utilize all this equipment I'm piling up.

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 02:14 AM

So hey OC, what way did you go with this? Any news on the best CO2 system front?

By the way, thanks for the compliment but I need the help of you experienced guys to figure out my real needs. I'm just not sure how to best utilize all this equipment I'm piling up.

IMO any burner which has minimal heat will obviously be the best set up.

the trouble is a burner makes BTU of heat and we usually counter this with BTU of AC which is expensive,so unless you have a source/method to regulate the heat produced to offset what it makes in heat thw compressed gas is the only other option.

I went the burner route(not water cooled)and found it wasa cheap to make Co2 but the heat was an issue,now i have two aluminum bottles and a CAP 2a IIRC with a REG-1 which makes no heat and for small grows it is the best i IMO unless someone can show an H20 cooled burner is more cost effective.

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:13 PM

i was under the asumption that co2 was a much cooler and heavier gas than reg air , just what i heard though as i dont know much about co2, but i do know that when you shood a paintball gun with co2 the co2 air comming out is much cooler, so in my opinion if you have a sealed room , co2 would help stabalize room temps and keep them low....no? not saying they would really lower temps, just help keep em low a bit....


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