Objectivism: Selfishness dressed up in it's sunday best

Discussion in 'Politics' started by TheDudeAbides, Sep 27, 2009.

  1. Dude, you're contradicting yourself over and over again. Please explain how taxes are mandatory considering this list:

     
  2. #42 UnbyJP, Sep 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2009
    I know, that was my point in an earlier post that got totally ignored. Those that are trying to pigeon hole us into a position we don't hold, that all taxes are mandatory, argue against the same exact point, and claim that NO taxes are mandatory. Shit just doesn't make sense. Can't we agree.... on some taxes.... at least? Apparently, it's all or nothing for these people. Just another awesome perk of living in The United States of Extremism.
     
  3. You're arguing semantics, McDouche... I'm not wrong. :cool:

    If you want to get down to it, the IRS considers income taxes paid by "voluntary compliance".

    We, of course, know that this is bullshit, as income taxes are only voluntary to people like Tim Geithner or Tom Daschle.

    How can someone starting from nothing, working a low wage job, be expected to live prosperously when the government takes a good percentage of what little earnings he makes?
     
  4. I'm sorry to have confused you. The list was facetious; Americans do not prosper living like that. I don't really believe you can successfully do those things in our society, and I do believe taxes are mandatory.

    TO prove my point barring illegal aliens: Is there anyone here that has never paid taxes?
     

  5. yeah, i want to put gasoline in my car and the government says since i use the roads and purchase gasoline, it should contribute to bettering out roads and infrastructure which are actually degrading due to the lack of commitment on our governments part, and poorly balanced budget.

    i like cigarettes, my taxes keep going up, i'm thinking about quitting the habit cause i'm sick of paying that outrageous tax. even though that tax mainly hurts people below poverty line, because in hard economic times people resort to "drugs" to ease the economic pressures and burdens.
     
  6. So, how is a cigarette tax mandatory? I can either choose to buy the cigarettes and pay the tax or not buy them at all. How can a tax be mandatory when their is an option to not pay it?
     
  7. basically i'm going to break this down.

    selfishness is now being turned around, against the few "successful", who borrowed loans for schooling, housing, car, and are making those payments monthly to sustain their living by the hard work and professionalism displayed in the work place. Now it is, you can afford these things, forget what you had to sacrifice and risk before you ever became successful, because we think we are entitled to the new technologies, lifestyle, and comftoribility which you have provided for you and your family. It is now time for you to share that wealth, forget the $40,000 tuition loan, the $10,000 car, and $1,000 mortgage and start helping ME pay for what i DON'T have.
     
  8. Make the best of the Self drive, economics and government have no place in altruism or morality, Factual and non biased education gives you the tools necessary to cultivate it within yourself, if everyone is aware of what is going on around them and empathetic enough to act on it , Morality is human nature.
     
  9. Yes, it is your wording that make you wrong. You are incorrect that income taxes are all slavery, theft, and coercion while consumption taxes are "voluntary", free, and donated.

    You said yourself your next argument was bullshit; as you are the first one to scream coercion over income taxes.

    No one starts from nothing. Everyone has some experience, and has opportunity in America. Some people will struggle, and not be fortunate enough to make it to prosperity. Taxes that person have paid will be returned in the for of welfare. I believe people can use welfare as a crutch to get on their feet, and into stability. Either way if this poor man paid no income tax, but had much higher consumption tax he would still be being taxed on his small income. Most poor don't have enough to save, and would be taxed on the full amount of their income through consumption taxes. They would still pay a similar amount after being heavily taxed for goods and services.

    I am arguing your semantics because you use hyperbole, and defend them as facts. In that case it is important to show you are exaggerating. I don't debate your argument to switch to consumption and lower as much as possible the % taxed on basic necessities, because I agree. I just don't agree with your exaggerations about income tax.

    If we would move to switch to consumption taxation, if done properly, could provide major benefits. In the short term, as word got out of the switch the rich would likely make big expenses they had planned for now boosting the economy. In the long term it would cut down on the "keeping up with the Jones'" mentality. We would reduce the super consumer nature of our culture, and increase financial stability with more saving. The poor would be less burdened, because they only buy necessity. To work, the transition would have to insure we don't just end up with both a high consumption tax and a high income tax. There would need to be serious discussion on what % to tax necessities versus luxuries. The government would have a much larger say in what we purchase by raising the taxes. We would need to have in place a watchdog group ensuring the beef companies don't lobby for extra low taxes while the pork producers that maybe don't have lobbyist get extra high taxes. There is a lot of debate we can have over consumption tax, if you stick to facts instead of gross exaggerations.
     
  10. Is there an option to buy the cigarettes and not pay for the tax?

    Tobacco is a great example for your argument sake, but let's be realistic. In our society everything is taxed, and not just government mandated evil luxuries.

    If a poor single mother has a baby, and needs dippers, clothing, food she has to buy those things. If she has to buy those things and can not opt out of paying the consumption tax, how is it voluntary?
     
  11. #51 Annonymous, Sep 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2009
    buy a condom in the first place, they already include the tax with the 25 cent slot machine.


    stop pming me, just because you have nothing useful to say. grow your own god damn food, it's not that hard. grow your own tobacco, grow your own pot, oh wait the government starts putting regulations against that. It is the government who makes taxes more and more mandatory. The constitution was written only expressing voluntary taxation unless it is indirect, the government went around that and wrote the IRS revenue where you don't define "voluntary" then made laws against "growing your own plants" like the free medicinal marijuana plant which i'm sure we can all agree on has medical values, very many which apply to daily illnesses which everyone faces. Too bad that is illegal and you'll end up in jail for possessing such a foul form of life. Wake up and realize, it's all about the money. That's why there are corporations who spend millions in lobbying and donations to get those elected, so they owe them favors and can secure their business investments.
     

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