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Why you need to have your medical records and a real existing qualifying condition!

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by WildWill, Jul 14, 2009.

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  1. #1 WildWill, Jul 14, 2009
    I posted some of this in the "Are you Angry yet" thread, but I feel like it may be lost in the shuffle, and i want to make sure people see this and read it.

    Every time there's a thread here on what you need to get a MMJ recommendation, some user will point out how easy it is to get a recommendation, that all you need to do is go to the right doctor, claim you have headaches or insomnia, and pay your dough and get a rec. It is, of course, true that you CAN do this. You think you're getting one over on the "po-po" and getting legal.

    Guess what?

    Law Enforcement is well aware of these doctors who hand out scripts as fast as their Staples-bought color printers will pop out paper, taking your $150 (multiplied by as many as 100 patients per day) and giving you a "license" to smoke weed.

    Every time these users say how easy it is to get a rec, myself and other activist-users here will point out that gaming the system hurts everyone, and there will be some stupid back and forth how the laws are immoral anyway, blah blah blah.

    I like to point out that MMJ opponents are well aware of the east of getting a recommendation, and use that information to keep MMJ illegal in other states. A lot of people think I'm full of shit, especially when I point out that Local Enforcement Officers and the DEA read MMJ websites, which I have PERSONAL knowledge that they do.

    Now comes along This blog from NORML, so nicely linked in an earlier post by Fezz5544. The 'white paper' that the article references is a real interesting read, parts of which I share below. I implore you to read the entire document, but as we all have short attention spans, I'll merely quote the salient passages to this post:


    direct link to pdf


    CLEARLY Law Enforcement is aware of how easy it is to get a recommendation. Should you decide to lie about your qualifying condition, and your recommending doctor is stupid enough to accept that lie as fact, if you get busted and have to go to court, your recommendation may not hold up, and then you would be in deep shit. Even if it DOES hold up, you're now commiting more felonies by purgering yourself in court (lying under oath). Suppose that you get a real dick prosecuting attorney and you're in court for a possession of several ounces of MMJ. This guy can, and will call your recommending doctor to court, and if your doc is sitting there unable to even remember you (because remember he's got over 100 patients a day), or provide accurate records of your medical condition. Suddenly your MMJ defense is shot to hell and you're looking at felony possession and time in the pokey.

    Wait, still think I'm full of shit?

    So now, not only do they KNOW about the easy of recommendation acquiring, they know that young adults are the prime offenders of less than legal recommendations. Don't think they're going to be on the lookout for this stuff, do you?

    Oh and think that the docs are going to be around forever doing this? Think again:

    I often use Dr. Jimenez as an example of a "bad pot-doc", because he's just the first of MANY that will be busted in the future. Law enforcement takes this stuff seriously. Now that the DEA isn't raiding clubs anymore (they comment about that too, in a back-handed slimey way that says they all approved of those raids), it's now up to local law enforcement to curb rampant MMJ use. If they can't touch patients, and can't touch clubs, guess who they're going to go after? That's right...Docs. Even though Doctors are protected LEGALLY by previous court cases, they have to provide the proper evaluation and counseling.

    Again, I urge each and everyone reading this post to read the white-paper, or at least skim it. It's valuable knowledge, think of it like the opposing football team's playbook, because now that we know what they think, we can combat them appropriately.

    One way is to be 100% legal and accurate with your recommendation and use. When you choose a doctor, get a reputable one, who does a proper examination and keeps proper records. FIND OUT if your doc has been called into court and what the outcomes are (as much as legally possible), talk to other patients about your doc. When you go in for your exam, bring your records and leave a copy for the doctor's permanent file.


    SO now that I've prostelyzed for several paragraphs, anyone still think it's OK to lie about their recommendation?
     
  2. #2 Lebowski, Jul 14, 2009
    I feel like the doctors I went to were less than proffessional. I got my recommendation, and since then 2 renewals, all at different places, and none of the times did I have medical records.
    I dont feel my condition is what was exactly intended by the authors of the law, I have a problematic appetite but I wouldnt call myself anorexic. Cannabis smoking does help me eat large meals, thats a fact about myself.

    My position on this, as far as my personal self is concerned, is that in the doctors office I never told a lie, I was honest about my history, my use, and my current condition, so in my opinion, the fact that I have a recommendation is based on the judgement of those doctors.

    If a judge found that my doctor's recommendation doesnt hold up, isnt that the doctor's fault for issuing a false recommendation?

    If a regular doctor maliciously issues vicodin or similar pharms to patients, then gets his liscence revoked, are the patients now at risk of illegally possessing vicodin?

    See if I got to court and my rec didnt hold up, I would try to sue the doctor, who misled me, telling me I was under his legal protection, a right of mine in the state of california.

    As far as I see it, the judge should come down on the doctor not the patients. But I dont know how it works exactly, Will can you give me some insight here?
     
  3. #3 Lebowski, Jul 14, 2009

    Go away.

    YOURE a debbie downer, we're trying to improve a system here so that it doesnt fail.

    I hate people who put down someone for trying to spread intelligent information.
     
  4. #4 fexy, Jul 14, 2009
    im not putting him down for spreading information.

    its the self-rightous bullshit he spouts continuously, and he's an extremely negative poster in general if you read through his previous posts.

    and im sure if he didnt have whatever condition he has to warrant being a 'legitimate MMJ patient', he'd be down there with his 'insomnia', 'anxiety' or 'depression' like most other people do.

    i hate people who seem to have no concept of empathy.
     
  5. #5 ganjapolice, Jul 14, 2009
    this is a parallel to the selling of indulgences that led to martin luther's theses and the protestant reformation :p;)
     
  6. #6 Lebowski, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2009

    Really? Are you serious?
    \/ \/ \/ \/

    Empathy.... empathy for whom? People who create fake illnesses for themselves? Thats what this post is about.

    Why feel sorry for someone with insomnia- when they're lying about having insomnia?
    Like I said, I went in to the doc and was honest about myself, he made a decision based on my honesty.

    WildWill is getting at people who completely fabricate an illness and/or find the cheapest, shadyest doctor possible.
    Hes not saying there is anything wrong with getting a recommendation for insomnia, anxiety or depression, hes saying theres something wrong about lying to get one just because you can or you found the doc who doesnt care.

    So saying there is no point to this post is just aggravating, we'd be better off without your comments. I've found wildwill to be a very interesting and informative poster. If you dont like his info, dont read it, and please dont come in with this negativity.

    I would still like your insight on the reliability of doctors in court Will, and wether a charge of illegal posession of cannabis is the recommendation writer's fault, or the recommendee's fault.
    Exactly how much leverage does a patient have vs his doctor?
     
  7. #7 WildWill, Jul 14, 2009
    Ignoring those who believe I post nothing but self-righteous BS (which if I were, how would I have gotten such a high rep-bar, without ever once posting a "pickup" thread or any of those other crap threads that people give out easy rep for?)

    Lebowski - can I call you dude? Dude...honestly I don't have the answer for you, based on my experiences in the court system, and my reasearch, I can say that it's all fairly hypothetical to be honest. When Jimenez got busted a number of other doctors stepped up and issued new recommendations to Jimenez' patients, as to whether or not any of his patients were prosecuted, I don't know. I would tend to think that patients themselves aren't high priority for prosecuters, but we all know that with every generalization there is an exception, so the answer is I just don't know.

    My point about the court system in my initial post was that the possibility exists for patients to be prosecuted for shitty recommendations. Whether or not unscrupulous DAs will do so is entirely up for debate.
     
  8. #8 shooshtime, Jul 14, 2009

    Great post and well put. I couldn't agree with you more about this situation. I know everyone would love to have a MMJ card but people getting them for b.s reason just hurts the cause in the end for people who really do need them.
     
  9. #9 Chunk, Jul 14, 2009
    I agree.........the neediest of patients can ultimately get hurt by those that just want a "license" to smoke legally.
     
  10. #10 fallforlife, Jul 14, 2009
    Wow, well someone did his homework! Ignoring the bickering that's going on. I do believe that people definitely should not totally fabricate suffering from some sort of ailment. This is abuse to the system and just proving to the people that oppose the use of MMJ that it can not be used responsibly. I know its rough for those healthy people, but sorry i suppose.
     
  11. #11 jagers, Jul 14, 2009
    I think you mean a negative nancy
     
  12. #12 jagers, Jul 14, 2009
    Hate to say it but doctors will print out perscriptions for pills faster than a medical marijauna script. I could go to my doctor and say I drop a paint can on my toe and get a week of vicodin easy but If I asked for mmj that would just slap you across the face and throw your ass out.
     
  13. #13 runtrunner, Jul 14, 2009
    Damn i live in San Diego...
     
  14. #14 phire420, Jul 14, 2009
    Wildwill I'm on you with this one, but people simply won't make the decision to question their morals. Luckily, authorities are at work here in Socal, weeding out the illegitimate doctors, so eventually, only the real doctors will remain.
     
  15. #15 TheGuyWithGreen, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2009


    exactly, I agree, this woodwill character is just a nuisance, every single post is him preaching or complaining about other people getting their MMJ

    how about you mind your business and stop caring about the next man, maybe that will help out,
    I pay for my cable television, and theres also people who have illegale boxes, do I give a fuck? no, so stop caring so much
    or get off your couch and stop typing and actually DO something about it

    or cry me a river
     
  16. #16 ksn2122, Jul 14, 2009
    Does anyone else feel like it doesn't really matter? I understand the importance of medical marijuana for those who actually need it for medical reasons, but I don't think mmj is the answer. I feel like the real answer is legalization, and until that happens, I can't blame people for seeking legal protection. In the big picture, it's bullshit that you need legal protection to personally enjoy a plant.

    While I don't have a medical license myself, I can definitely empathize with the young adults seeking a medical card without a legitimate condition. It makes sense that someone would want to further their careers and whatnot without giving up smoking. It's hard enough to get a good job in this economy - I'd imagine it's damn near impossible with a criminal record.

    I could see myself as a young adult, thinking how irresponsible it would be of me to engage in criminal activity on a regular basis when I need to support myself as well as possibly a young family. The only answers I see to this problem are

    A) Move to a different country
    B) Risk it
    C) Stop smoking
    D) Get a medical card

    A medical card seems to be by far the most appealing option to me.

    Anyway, until the system is fixed and this prohibition and 'war on drugs' shit is over, I more or less view the system as the enemy and don't blame anyone for exploiting it.
     
  17. #17 sneekuhtoke, Jul 14, 2009
    good post will, although I agree with your post, I thinks that NO MATTER WHAT, people are going to pimp the system, just like welfare, people who don't really need it go and apply and come out with their 250.00 dollar ebt in hand, but theres NO WAY to stop it, and although spreading info helps, its not going to scare anyone into not wanting to smoke weed legally.

    although I did not originally go to a doc to get checked out, I already know what I have, anxiety/insomnia/ and yes even headaches that come with the anxiety, and If I ever have to go to court, I will have a TRUE reason of why I have mmj with many true stories to go along with my testimony. and like lobowski said, I would probably sue the doctor if he'd let some shit like that happen to me
     
  18. #18 oldskoolgrower, Jul 14, 2009
    I hate when people game the system to get 'legal' MMJ when they don't need it as medicine. All it does is hurt the cause in other States and make overall legalisation harder to attain.
     
  19. #19 cstewart1987, Jul 14, 2009
    We are living in a sociopaths' society, One cannot blame some one for wanting cannabis, all cannabis users are medicinal. Dont adhere to you conformity so easily. You only stereotyping and making good people feel bad, Dont.
     
  20. #20 FUMANCU, Jul 14, 2009
    Yea we know LEO would never make up something to pull you over or search you.
     
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