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Autoflowering seed breeding


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#1
tree414

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ok so i plan on making my next seed purchase here in the next couple weeks and as i browse the strains i keep researching autoflowering strains. i grow in cabinets so theyre perfect but since they cant be cloned im weary. However do they still produce seeds like normal strains? i wouldnt mind having to pull out 2 plants every once in a while to procreate for seeds. does it work this way? is there any downside? also if i bought say two autoflowering strains like white moscow and hindu kush can i cross them? will it stay autoflowering strain?

#2
DirtyViperMan

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Big questions big answer. First of is yes you will have to take make seeds to keep it going. No your F2, F3,F4, will not all be auto flowering that will be something you will have to select for. Yes you could cross to auto flowering crosses. Downside is that the F2 will be wild with many many many different characteristics. A good portion of them will not be auto flowering. So if you decide to do this look for your best male and best female and cross those. Downside is you just lost your best female to seed production. When you start breeding your need to make a list of what is important to you when it comes to crossing.
ie
1.auto flower
2.short height
3. bud production
4. potency
5.and so on
Males are as important if not more so when it comes to breeding. Look for a male with early maturation, good pollen sack formation and production, either lots of branches or no branches so on and so on.
Keep'em burnin
DirtyViperMan
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#3
lessismore

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Big questions big answer. First of is yes you will have to take make seeds to keep it going. No your F2, F3,F4, will not all be auto flowering that will be something you will have to select for. Yes you could cross to auto flowering crosses. Downside is that the F2 will be wild with many many many different characteristics. A good portion of them will not be auto flowering. So if you decide to do this look for your best male and best female and cross those. Downside is you just lost your best female to seed production. When you start breeding your need to make a list of what is important to you when it comes to crossing.
ie
1.auto flower
2.short height
3. bud production
4. potency
5.and so on
Males are as important if not more so when it comes to breeding. Look for a male with early maturation, good pollen sack formation and production, either lots of branches or no branches so on and so on.
Keep'em burnin
DirtyViperMan



All good points. However, when making seeds or crossing auto strains you do carry the auto trait over if the auto is truly stablized. In other words; if you pollinate a female auto with the pollen from a male auto they will produce 100% auto offspring. The same goesw for crossing to different auto strains, however in doing so you have crossed over to an unknown realm in breeding; hence i.e.: Auto White Russian is Ruderalis(Mexican or Russian) X White Russian 3X into Ruderalis 3X back into White Russian. The Auto Hindu Kush is pretty much the same process. Problems; with the great demand for auto strains most are not properly bred to carry the full auto-flowering trait and are therefore inconsistent when it comes to auto-flowering. We see more and more posts everyday.

You r best bet is to reproduce seeds of the same auto strain and grow some out to make sure they are stable. As they are growing, keep a close eye of the growth rates, when they flower, how well the flowers form and fill out, etc... Same with the males, you will be losing your best female to the reproduction of seeds, however in return you will have a very good supply of well selected seeds for future grows. After you reproduce your seeds, make sure they are very consistent w/ the suto-flowering gene, then you may attempt crossing with other auto-flowering strains.

less
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#4
DirtyViperMan

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All good points. However, when making seeds or crossing auto strains you do carry the auto trait over if the auto is truly stablized. In other words; if you pollinate a female auto with the pollen from a male auto they will produce 100% auto offspring. The same goesw for crossing to different auto strains, however in doing so you have crossed over to an unknown realm in breeding; hence i.e.: Auto White Russian is Ruderalis(Mexican or Russian) X White Russian 3X into Ruderalis 3X back into White Russian. The Auto Hindu Kush is pretty much the same process. Problems; with the great demand for auto strains most are not properly bred to carry the full auto-flowering trait and are therefore inconsistent when it comes to auto-flowering. We see more and more posts everyday.

You r best bet is to reproduce seeds of the same auto strain and grow some out to make sure they are stable. As they are growing, keep a close eye of the growth rates, when they flower, how well the flowers form and fill out, etc... Same with the males, you will be losing your best female to the reproduction of seeds, however in return you will have a very good supply of well selected seeds for future grows. After you reproduce your seeds, make sure they are very consistent w/ the auto-flowering gene, then you may attempt crossing with other auto-flowering strains.

less



Agreed but I was under the information that auto flowering strains aren't consistent and aren't stabilized. Also these aren't 100% Ruderalis only half or worse. So when you breed them together your not going to get a good representation of the parents. Some plants will show more kush traits some will show more Ruderalis traits and a very few will be a perfect blend. In short breeding is a long term game. The first 5 or so generation will be wild and unruly then you will see more consistant phenos.
Keep'em burnin
DirtyViperMan

#5
lessismore

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Agreed but I was under the information that auto flowering strains aren't consistent and aren't stabilized. Also these aren't 100% Ruderalis only half or worse. So when you breed them together your not going to get a good representation of the parents. Some plants will show more kush traits some will show more Ruderalis traits and a very few will be a perfect blend. In short breeding is a long term game. The first 5 or so generation will be wild and unruly then you will see more consistant phenos.
Keep'em burnin
DirtyViperMan



Very true, have been breeding for well over 15 yrs myself. However, most auto-flowering strains have been stablized and carry only the auto-flower trait from the Ruderalis. In most recent cases it has been discovered that manyof the commercial seed being produced is rushed, therefore lowering the the consistency of the trait in most of the seeds. The most popular cases have come from the auto AK, auto Lemon Skunk, and auto Whit eRussian, my guess being they seem to be the most popular.

You see ehtics have gone down the toilet in breeding over the past 10 yrs, and even more so over the past 5 yrs. The ethics now are based more on keeping a supply for the demand rather than distribute good stable seeds of excellent quality. Those that do offer good genetics and quality seeds are often sell quickly b/c many growers and breeders alike know the quality and consistency of the seeds they sell. As we begin to see more and more feminsed and auto strains come into the scene, we also see more problems and inconsistency in what the seeds produce. Basically it is the early warning signs of a tainted gene pool. Most seed producers and breeders take advantage of their customers b/c few growers have truly experienced what it is like to grow a true line strain or truly stablized hybrid, so they can get away with it b/c it is better than anything they have gorwn in the past from bag seeds.

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#6
tree414

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Ok well let me tell you my plan and lets see if im understanding this. Im buying my seeds from Marijuana Seeds - Worldwide Marijuana Seeds. I was going to buy 3 auto flowering strains; hindu kush, great white shark, and white moscow. I was going to only buy 4 seeds of each strain, breed out a generation, and then hopefully have my own cache of autoflowering seeds. I dont really see how autoflowering is sensible if this doesn work... If i cant make my own seeds, cant clone it, and cant stabley breed it, how am i suppose to do this since ordering seeds for every crop is insane lol? Im not looking to cross the plants right away maybe down the line, autoflowering is just really appealing to me but i cant afford seeds on a constant basis and i dont wanna have to sell off parts of my crop to keep it going.

#7
Raoulnai

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you can get seeds easily from an auto-flower strain, if you want just enough to continue your own supply you can carefully polinate just a few sections of buds on one plant and produce enough to maintain your own supply.

however crossbreeding these is like the others have said, a longer term game where you need to stabilize and isolate desirable traits over multiple generations

#8
leland

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buy lowryder seeds and seeds of another stabilized strain. keep only good males of one strain, only good females of another(very important do not have m and f of same strain). air movement pollinates weed. since only the first generation has stable traits you'll have to repeat this step occasionally.or skip this and just grow lowryder(stabalized breed). cull poor males keep seeds from good females, and over time improve the strain. easy.

#9
lessismore

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buy lowryder seeds and seeds of another stabilized strain. keep only good males of one strain, only good females of another(very important do not have m and f of same strain). air movement pollinates weed. since only the first generation has stable traits you'll have to repeat this step occasionally.or skip this and just grow lowryder(stabalized breed). cull poor males keep seeds from good females, and over time improve the strain. easy.


yeah, easy....LOL....ok whatever. Breeding is somewhat more complicated than that. If it was just that easy everybody would be doing it and the seed producers would go out of business. Not even every place that claims strains and seeds breed their own, they buy from wholesale markets and just are jumping on the bandwagon of the ever increasing profits of the seed market.

It takes time, space, patience, and knowledge of not only the strains, but the lineage of the strains. You must understand the difference between F1, F2, P1, know what is a true breeding line and what is not. It is easy to throw pollen around a couple hybrids and have seeds, however most hybrids do not breed well for they are not established true lines.

less

#10
leland

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breeding f1 hybrids really is that easy. the only drawback is they,re only stable for the first generation. mighty mite and early wonder skunk are two other autoflowering strains that you could save seed from and retain autoflowering traits.

#11
BCBUDDY

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ok so your saying that if someone like me who is in the exact same spot that tree is in, could buy some lets say lowryder#1 seeds, plant them..lets say one turns out to be a male and one turns out to be a female, in theory let them chill beside eachother..they have sexy time, then when the female produces buds the bud will be full of seeds thus hindering that weed..but at the same time you would have a shit load of brand new bonified lowryder#1 seeds?

#12
tree414

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yes but you can only breed out that first line. if you were to breed again from the seeds you created, your strain would start to become more unstable.

#13
Gr33n_Cr0nIc

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i am wondering the same thing cause i am really thinking of doing this as well. im going to buy like 15 lowryder #2 seeds non-fem and breed out like 3 or 4 plants. doing it the same exact way the guy above said. i will be doing the sexy time to the girls with a bag over the buds and not a fan. but none the less if i breed 3 or 4 plants that should give me a few hundred seeds correct. and as long as i dont cross them again they will be perfectly fine, meaning stable. ohh and when do you normally pollenate your buds to produce seeds. knowing that lowryder only has a 6 week long flower?

#14
leland

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joint doctor claims that lowryder#1 is deviant free, so you might be able to keep a PURE lowryder#1 strain going indefinately. if autoflowering is your main concern, just cull any plants that don't flower under 18+ hours of light, a little after three weeks. if you do get deviants, enjoy them. you might develop your own strain. remember people have been developing plants for 1000s of years before gregor mendel, simply by saving seeds from plants with desired traits. and if you want to get more involved, classic genetics is fairly straitforward.

#15
BCBUDDY

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yes but you can only breed out that first line. if you were to breed again from the seeds you created, your strain would start to become more unstable.


so then the trick would be getting as many seeds after your pollination and use them up...then just go buy some more and repeat proccess....thats not bad considering you might not have to buy seeds for like a year or more depending on how many seeds you use...shit i would probably sell a few here and there to my friends as needed so that when i do go to buy some more i have covered that cost!!! haha awesome!!!!! i fucking love MJ !!!!

i am wondering the same thing cause i am really thinking of doing this as well. im going to buy like 15 lowryder #2 seeds non-fem and breed out like 3 or 4 plants. doing it the same exact way the guy above said. i will be doing the sexy time to the girls with a bag over the buds and not a fan. but none the less if i breed 3 or 4 plants that should give me a few hundred seeds correct. and as long as i dont cross them again they will be perfectly fine, meaning stable. ohh and when do you normally pollenate your buds to produce seeds. knowing that lowryder only has a 6 week long flower?


hell ya!! sexy time with the bags!!! kinda like a condom over the bud!! just shooting the good stuff exactly where you want!!!ahaha its like a form of birth control ROFL.
anyways ya thats how i plan on doing it..with the bags that is.

i just would like to know the right time to do it like you said...like once the flowers open i assume is when the pollin just shoots out like a cloud ...and then i also go on to assume that when you have the female next to him as long as there is new bud growth...like it has to be before the buds start maturing to the point when they cut be harvested...like during the early stages of bud growth??

#16
tree414

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I did alot of experimenting with this after i posed the question since few people had real answers. If you take any major auto strain(lowryder, ak47, white russian, etc) and cross it with the seeds you got from the original breeder, you will end up with completely viable autoflowering seeds nearly identical to the ones you started with. I recommend using 1 female and 1 male only for this process. Pick your absolute 2 best plants and use these for the breeding. Collect the pollen from the male and keep in a freezer. I usually place aluminum foil under my male and collect the pollen sacs as they fall. I keep the sacs in a pill bottle and put them in a mini fridge. THe pollen stays good about 4 weeks. I wait this long into flowering and then pollinate my female. I usually only pollinate 2-3 branches of the female. This is more or less the same technique you would use for breeding any seeds. THere are videos and how tos all over th internet if you have more question or want demonstrations. Its really not too much hassle and it can save you tons of money. if you have any specific questions just ask... its not really that hard but i know i had lots of questions my first time cause it just seems like it should be harder than it is... lol.

#17
itzmeson

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Ok well let me tell you my plan and lets see if im understanding this. Im buying my seeds from Marijuana Seeds - Worldwide Marijuana Seeds. I was going to buy 3 auto flowering strains; hindu kush, great white shark, and white moscow. I was going to only buy 4 seeds of each strain, breed out a generation, and then hopefully have my own cache of autoflowering seeds. I dont really see how autoflowering is sensible if this doesn work... If i cant make my own seeds, cant clone it, and cant stabley breed it, how am i suppose to do this since ordering seeds for every crop is insane lol? Im not looking to cross the plants right away maybe down the line, autoflowering is just really appealing to me but i cant afford seeds on a constant basis and i dont wanna have to sell off parts of my crop to keep it going.


ok well i just joined this site to help you out dude. not sure how old this post is anyway but i have solved your problem, research silver colloidal and research rodelization, then you can take it from there.

#18
jupiterlocust

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^isnt that process used to basically create a hermi plant and take that pollen to sexy up another female to produce all female seeds? If so how would that really play a role in recreating autoflower seeds? Unless your trying to create autoflower fem seeds? But with the silver method you destroy a female and have to be very careful with the solution as it's poisonous?

#19
PennywiseTheDancingClown

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Agreed but I was under the information that auto flowering strains aren't consistent and aren't stabilized. Also these aren't 100% Ruderalis only half or worse. So when you breed them together your not going to get a good representation of the parents. Some plants will show more kush traits some will show more Ruderalis traits and a very few will be a perfect blend. In short breeding is a long term game. The first 5 or so generation will be wild and unruly then you will see more consistant phenos.
Keep'em burnin
DirtyViperMan

Senice Auto strains are only 50% or less Ruderalis, if you were to breed two of them together wouldn't those seeds have a larger ratio?? Also I don't understand what you mean by saying "The first 5 or so generation will be wild" what does that mean?? The Plants will be of low all around quality??



#20
molegrower

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I'm researching things of this nature, it's my understanding that x breeding true stable autos with produce autos.. the "wild" term means. . Your not sure what pheno you will get as the end result..
The other thing some might want to consider, to not loose your entire female to seeds, and not to deal with males, is to self pollinate the female, "fem" seeds... one branch can be sprayed.. with something called CS, made from silver. Again..I'm a new at all this... but... you can use this on any plant.. auto or photo... the seeds produced will be fem..from that one branch.. there is another application spray.. it's called STS..that's highly, ummmmmmm controversy to say the least... good results.. the CS is safer.. I've seen one branch self pollinate..with the CS spray...
As far as generations go..sayin 5 generations until they aren't "wild" anymore.. it's true.. once you start getting into x breeding.. since you are taking genetics/phenos from two different plants. You will have traits of one and some of the other.. you have to narrow the traits down... to what exactly you want from the plant.. which could result in.not just x breeding a couple plants... but back crossing the plants, using that offspring to x again.. see if that's what you were looking for.. and if so.. then get it to stabilize.. meaning consistent results with every seed... finding the traits in that offspring..then x it again it gets pretty complicated, with f1,f2,f3... Again I'm a noob.. I most likely confused the hell out of everyone... lol.



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