So I'm a few weeks in my first organic grow and this organic section has been a huge help. I am pumped about leaving all the chems out and doing this the natural way. However I do have a couple questions that I am not clear on. I live in metro area and our tap water is actually very good quality although the municipal water district switched from chlorine to chloramine( some sort of chlorine & ammonia combo) a few years back. Apparently most water districts have either switched already or will be switching to chloramine so I imagine there are some fellow GC folks dealing with chloramine as well. I know that chlorine can be bubbled out in an hour or so or will evaporate if left overnight but chloramine will not. I've read that one solution is to add some worm castings and aerate for an hour. Apparently the organic material in the castings converts the chloramine to chlorine which can then be bubbled out. Does anybody know if this is the case? And if so is 1 hour sufficient? After an hour I can begin brewing tea or adding nutes to the water and not have to worry about the chloramine messing with my microherd? Thanks for the help!
The quickest and cheapest way to eliminate the chloramines is vitamin c. Google VitaDChlor and you might be able to find the rates on the site. You don't need a lot. I don't think they're will be anything in the castings to eliminate the chloramine. The actual worms might get rid of them....
I found this on Wikipedia: Chloramine can be removed from tap water by treatment with superchlorination (10 ppm or more of free chlorine, such as from a dose of sodium hypochlorite bleach or pool sanitizer) while maintaining a pH of about 7 (such as from a dose of hydrochloric acid). Hypochlorous acid from the free chlorine strips the ammonia from the chloramine, and the ammonia outgasses from the surface of the bulk water. This process takes about 24 hours for normal tap water concentrations of a few ppm of chloramine. Residual free chlorine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours.
Thanks for the replies fellas. The VitaDchlor is really interesting I just dont like the idea of putting additives in the water to get rid of anything(especially more chlorine!) even though the VitaD is 100% organic. Every article says something different so I'm just not sure what the deal is......my quick google search has turned into quite the quest for a clear answer. Here is some of what I've found: The whole reduction discussion for chloramines can become quite complex, but the main thing you need to know is that chloramine is removed from water with essentially the same strategies that are used to remove chlorine. This means that carbon filtration is the best removal method, and, contrary to urban legends, filter carbon does indeed remove chloramine. The problem is that it takes more carbon and more contact time to do the job. In practical terms this means that if your city disinfects your tap water with chloramines you'll need to get a larger and better carbon filter than you would need if chlorine alone were used. Removing Chloramines from Water (A water filter manufacturer website) Very few carbon filters can remove chloramine. The chlorine-ammonia bond prevents standard carbon from removing the chlorine. Some new carbon filter units are now using a special "Catalytic" Activated Carbon. This catalytic carbon can break the chlorine-ammonia bond, and absorb the chlorine. BUT! They leave the ammonia free, which we've already said is a bad thing. I've seen one tap-water filter that added a special ammonia absorbing compound (zeolite) in addition to the carbon. But zeolite has a fairly small ammonia absorbing capacity so it needs frequent replacement, and it isn't found in any common tap-water filters. Without the additional ammonia absorbing compounds, you must use some other treatment to remove the ammonia. There are several other problems regarding the use of carbon filtration. First, the effectiveness of the chlorine removal is highly dependant on the flow rate. Filters will commonly list the recommended flow. One high-quality filter states "At 1 gpm (gallon per minute), with an input of 3ppm, the output will contain .5ppm". As you increase the water flow thru the filter, the effectiveness drops. Some filters contain flow-restrictors to prevent you from increasing the flow above the recommended. In either case, to allow effective filtering, your flow rate is limited Chlorine and Chloramine (An aquarium hobbyist site) Here is a link to a Water Quality site that seems to be objective: http://www.wqa.org/pdf/TechBulletins/TB-Chloramine.pdf I have spent a good deal of time of looking into this and am just as confused as I was beforehand. The consensus seems to be that activated charcoal is the most effective nonchemical removal method although it requires a good deal of contact time to be effective. The search continues and of course if anyone finds or has anything please contribute here! Thanks-Erock
I think too much is invested in this as I have bubbled the water and not bubbled it and never had any ill side effects on my plants using botanicare and some molasses.
Well at this point I would almost agree with you. But I would like to know what the deal is. I don't want to waste time bewing teas and promoting microherd if the chloramine is going to be killing the little guys.
So I found the post by Lumperdawg about aerating chloraminated water with castings: "An easy way is to take a couple of tablespoons of quality earthworm castings and put them into your mesh bag and bubble it out for about 1 hour. The organic material in the earthworm castings will activate the chloramine causing it to convert chlorine and the aeration process will remove both the chlorine and ammonia." Seems logical to me and Lumperdawg comes across as a knowledgable fellow so I will continue using this method until I break down and get myself a carbon filter.
You can use just about any organic material to "strip" away the ammonia thereby leaving the chlorine to dissipate through normal process. An easy way to look at it is the ammonia in Chloramine serves as a sort of protective shell that keeps the chlorine stable for longer periods of time enabling it to do it's intended job. Organic material will cause the ammonia/chlorine atomic bond to sort of burn itself out (for lack of a better term), leaving the chlorine vulnerable. Then further bubbling or simply leaving the water sitting will allow both to go away via dissipation.
The Cation Exchange Capacity of organic materials is what allows for the molecular dissolution of the ammonia from the chlorine. Ammonia (NH3) is a positively charged ion that is attracted to and aDsorbed by the negatively charged surface area of organic materials (and clays). Once the NH3 is bound electrically by the C.E. site, the free chlorine molecule (an anion, negatively charged) is free to dissipate by evaporation.
That ^^^^^^^ Or, a bit of castings or organic matter will do the trick. Which begs the question, if adding organic matter to the water removes the stuff, wouldn't adding water to the organic matter achieve the same results? Since most of my stuff is outside and I'll use 50-100 gallons depending on the season, it comes right from the hose. I've noticed no ill effects whatsoever in the 6 years I've been here. For teas and such, I use the 1drop/gallon aquarium drops. Seem to work fine and tropical fish are way more sensitive than any plant. Wet
This makes total sense to me! And makes chemical sense as well. But I have no experience using municipal water. I have a well.
Ive wondered the same thing about how/why my raised bed soil handles the water that comes right from the hose with no real detriment to my veggies. I always assumed that it was because the plants being in the ground tend to be able to handle this better than roots in a container. I have tried to apply tap to my container plants and ended up with some finicky plants.... . Are your plants in containers outside Wet?
Both. I have a soil garden and container veggies. Plants in the house get stuck in the shower and douched. Everybody uses the same mix. Wet
I just dont know what the deal is here then. Obviously water quality differs by location but if anything, this just tells me that my water must be JACKED! Maybe next run I'll do a side by side. It'll be one heck of a find if I got a plant to out okay.
Vitamin C tabs. Easy as pie. Safe, cheap, readily available, even organic if you like. A 1000 mg tablet that you can by at the corner grocery will neutralize 50 gallons of water. Your plants, all plants can use and need Vitamin C. Read the article below for everything you ever wanted to know about water, even though it's written in regards to brewing beer, it's full of helpful information. Scroll down to section 4.1.4 for info on using Vitamin C (ascorbic acid ) for neutralizing both chlorine and chloramine. Being a weak acid it may lower your pH a little. Always pH your water before watering your plants. Water Knowledge - Bru'n Water
They neutralize on contact with organic matter. You don't even need to bubble, add vitamin c or soil to your water. If you have the time by all means but your not going to notice any difference. As long as the water hits the soil not the plant itself IMHO.