Okay, let's look at the evidence. I'll try to be as brief as I can: The pineal being shaped like a pinecone doesn't mean that it has an esoteric connectipn or that any civilisation that uses it as a symbol is using it to mean the pineal - or even are using it in the same sense. That it's in the vatican and say, on the handle of a 20th century jug has no connection to each other or the pineal. Can you tell me where the sacred pinecone,so important allegedly to Roman Catholics, is mentioned as such anywhere in Catholicism? Manly P Hall was a Theosophist, using his quote is the most implausible evidence there is. In what way does the pinecone being used as a symbol by pagans mean that the pinecone is the pineal? Which pagans make this reference? MelT
yeah, i have to agree with the one dude...the only time i ever heard or used the term ...'third eye'...was referign to a penis hole... the eye, the eyes, the two eyes...ect ect...yep, plenty of old text for those... perhaps in conversation even 'minds eye', but ... third eye?...is always related to the male organ
ps...i think the pine cone and other old symbols in the vatican is supposed to sybolize the subjection of all those old religions to Christ.
you think that is something, check this out... i have an old buddy who was stationed in the orient for a long time, and he swears he had a fling with a chick who had a third tit... now that would be intense, man...
I'm not really disagreeing with you MelT. I was just posting the stuff that I dug up for your careful observation. I'd have to research some more before I could tell you if the pinecone is mentioned anywhere in Catholicism. However keep in mind that there are countless symbos that may or may not be officially defined and even so the correct meaning may not be given. Homo Veritas blog The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock This fascinating and brilliant piece of artwork depicts a Sumerian god holding a pine cone in his right hand.
The third eye isn't a chakra in itself but the extension of it that you can feel. Just how the chakra's are actually located along the spine but you can feel them in the front of your body. People mistake the "third eye" as it's own chakra, which it's not. The third eye is mainly the location where you can feel the balance/imbalance of the 2 forces making up the Kundalini, a sensor so to speak. That's why you see the cobra coming out of the forhead in depictions of Pharoah's.
And could you tell me in whcih ancient system of Chakras this information appears? It has nothing at all to do with Kundalini and you wont find the third eye mentioned anywhere in any of the traditional Kundalini/Hatha yoga texts. The cobra in the Egyptian crown doesn't have anything to do with a thrd-eye either and never has. Could you provide a link to this information that isn't say, by Theosophists or people like David Icke? MelT
I understand. It's worth posting these things so this idea can be debunked once and for all. One of the cut and pastes above refers to it within Catholocism (the Pope is the one with the big hat in a previous post There aren't countless symbols that haven't been officially defined TBH. If the pinecone is meant to represent the pinecone so widely as your postings suggest, then there would be reference to it in at least one of these traditions. It's not mentioned in connection with a third eye anywhere (really sincerely, anywhere) in any eastern tradition where the whole idea of chakras came from. It's not mentioned as such in pagan rites (wiccan particularly). It has no pineal connection with the Assyria Kings (bottom frieze) All you're doing is posting pictures of places where the pinecone is used, but there is no connecting thread to say that they all mean the same thing. It's used in Bachanalian ceremonies to represent the penis for instance. No third eye there...ohhh...sorry, yes....obviously there there is... Every picture you've posted is just a picture of someone with a pinecone, there's no third-eye/pineal connection at all. Now to the text. The first is by Carey, 'God man made flesh'. Carey's writing is almost a hundred years old and he was...well....a religious nutcase, who believed that allour organs had religious significance. Do you really buy that? "GOD-MAN THE WORD MADE FLESH by DR. GEORGE W. CAREY, M.D. (1920) This book deals wholly with the physiology of the scriptures. It shows the location of Eden, the Garden of Eden, the river that flowed out of Eden to water the garden; Jerusalem; Golgotha; Jordan; Bethlehem; The Manger; Heaven & Hell; The Dead Sea; Sodom & Gomorrah; Egypt; The Cross; Resurrection; Ascension; Mary; Joseph; Noah, the Ark & the Animals; Moses; Joshua, Pharaoh & the Children of Israel. The author shows that all of these are personifications of organs, veins, arteries, ribs, vertebrae, the spinal cord, nerves, fluid, etc., of the "wonderfully made" human body, the "Temple of the Living God". The wonders of the cell salts are explained by this famous doctor." Let's look at his statement from above: The ancients, from time immemorial, have considered the pine tree as the most sacred of all trees. The pineal gland or Corpus pineale, is shaped like the pine cone, and the ancient physiologist who gave it its name, must assuredly have understood its great esoteric function. The 'ancients' regarded a whole host of trees as sacred, and the pine was not THE most sacred. Far more important were the Yew and Oak. The 'ancient physiologist who gave it (the pineal) its name' did not think of the pinecone as being representative of the pineal, it just had a similar shape: Herophilus discovered the pineal gland in 300 BC, and Galen labeled the gland konareion, because of its resemblance to the nuts found in the cones of the stone pine (Greek: kônos, Latin: pinus pinea). In your second paste you show that the pinecone is found in heraldry. Yes, it certainly is, as are over 5, 000 other symbols are. In what way does this use mean that pinecones and the pineal are one, or that it means a third eye? Your final text escapes me though? What has flouride and the pineal got to do with third eyes and pinecones? MelT
I like watching three of the big kids converse. One question, what does the snake in Egyptian crowns represent?
1) The cobra represented the "fiery eye of Ra" (Ra was the Sun God, one of a pantheon - MelT), in which two uraei can be seen on either side of a winged solar disk. Starting in Middle Kingdom The uraeus appears as a symbol worn on the crown or headdress of royalty. It is used as a protective symbol, the Egyptians believed that the cobra would spit fire at any approaching enemies. 2) The Uraeus (plural Uraei or Uraeuses, from the Greek οὐραῖος, from Egyptian jʿr.t (iaret) "rearing cobra") is the stylized, upright form of an Egyptian spitting cobra (asp, serpent, or snake), used as a symbol of sovereignty, royalty, deity, and divine authority in ancient Egypt. The Uraeus is a symbol for the goddess Wadjet, one of the earliest of Egyptian deities, who often was depicted as a cobra. The center of her cult was in Per-Wadjet, later called Buto by the Greeks. She became the patroness of the Nile Delta and the protector of all of Lower Egypt, so her image was worn by the pharaohs as a head ornament, first as the body of Wadjet atop the head or as a crown encircling the head, always remaining in effect part of their crown, indicating her protection and as a claim over the land. The pharaoh was recognized only by wearing the uraeus, which conveyed legitimacy to the ruler. There is evidence for this tradition even in the Old Kingdom during the third millennium B.C. Several goddesses associated with, or being considered aspects of Wadjet are depicted wearing the uraeus also. At the time of the unification of Egypt, the image of Nekhbet, who was represented as a white vulture and held the same position as the patron of Upper Egypt, joined the image of Wadjet on the Uraeus that would encircle the crown of the pharaohs who ruled the unified Egypt. The importance of their separate cults kept them from becoming merged as with so many Egyptian deities. Together they were known as The Two Ladies, who became the joint protectors and patrons of the unified Egypt. Later, the pharaohs were seen as a manifestation of the sun-god Re, and so it also was believed that the Uraeus protected them by spitting fire on their enemies from the fiery eye of the goddess. In some mythological works, the eyes of Ra are said to be uraei. Wadjets existed long before the rise of this cult when they originated as the eye of Wadjet as cobra and are the name of the symbols also called the Eye of the Moon, Eye of Hathor, the Eye of Horus, and the Eye of Ra-depending upon the dates of the references to the symbols. MelT
I mean it's a short guy with super speed, strength, a third eye, and he shoots BLACK fire. Come on. There's also Dr.Manhattan from Watchmen...but it's the hydrogen symbol, not a third eye. I figure, if my life ever turned to shambles and I finally left for the Amazon, I'd burn a circle on my forehead just because.
Very interesting thread. I always thought the 3rd eye was called such because it is the supposed center of intuition, allowing you to "see clearly" in a sense. On a couple of occasions, my intuition has saved my ass. For example, me and my girlfriend were having sex, we were high and her room smelled like weed, with Black Sabbath playing. Her parents are very strict about sex, very old fashioned, im not even allowed in her room, if they caught us she would be kicked out on the street. Her mother wasn't due home for a few hours, but suddenly I had a 'vision' of her mum coming through the door. I lost my interest in having sex, and had a thought that with the music blaring we wouldn't be able to hear her mum come through the door if that ever happened. As soon as I turned the music off, I heard the front door. Im not saying this is in anyway related to the "3rd eye", but it is possible that this chakra allows us to "see" things in this way. However, from what you are saying, the chakras don't have specific 'functions' such as throat- communication/expression; sacral- feelings of sexuality and creativity etc. So it is likely that it is from mistaking the pineal gland as an eye, and associating it with the ajna chakra, rather than its 'function', if this is the case. When people say 'opening' the third eye, it is because many peoples pineal glands are apparently 'blocked', mostly due to fluoride which for some reason builds up there more than anywhere else in the body, or so this article says: It is now known - thanks to the meticulous research of Dr. Jennifer Luke from the University of Surrey in England - that the pineal gland is the primary target of fluoride accumulation within the body. The soft tissue of the adult pineal gland contains more fluoride than any other soft tissue in the body - a level of fluoride (~300 ppm) capable of inhibiting enzymes. The pineal gland also contains hard tissue (hyroxyapatite crystals), and this hard tissue accumulates more fluoride (up to 21,000 ppm) than any other hard tissue in the body (e.g. teeth and bone). After finding that the pineal gland is a major target for fluoride accumulation in humans, Dr. Luke conducted animal experiments to determine if the accumulated fluoride could impact the functioning of the gland - particulalry the gland's regulation of melatonin. Luke found that animals treated with fluoride had lower levels of circulating melatonin, as reflected by reduced levels of melatonin metabolites in the animals' urine. This reduced level of circulating melatonin was accompanied - as might be expected - by an earlier onset of puberty in the fluoride-treated female animals. Luke summarized her human and animal findings as follows: "In conclusion, the human pineal gland contains the highest concentration of fluoride in the body. Fluoride is associated with depressed pineal melatonin synthesis by prepubertal gerbils and an accelerated onset of sexual maturation in the female gerbil. The results strengthen the hypothesis that the pineal has a role in the timing of the onset of puberty. Whether or not fluoride interferes with pineal function in humans requires further investigation." In the REAL chakra system (if you will), are chakras associated with organs/glands? For example, the heart chakra is normally associated with the thymus gland and the heart and with the circulatory, immune and the endoctrine systems. Is this idea one of Theosophy? If they were associated with physical glands, then surely this would explain the association between pineal gland and ajna. As for astral travel, I haven't experienced it myself. I'm willing to believe that it is possible, but not enlightening. But the people that claim to have done it, what is your explanation? Were they just delusional, is it a case of misperception? MeIT (if you read this) would it be possible for you to point me in the direction of the ancient chakra system, uninfluenced by Theosophy? Is there any particular school of teaching I should study, any reading material you can recommend? I'm beginning to understand the difference, but I still don't know the function, if any, that chakras have in the ancient teachings. Thank you.
In the REAL chakra system (if you will), are chakras associated with organs/glands? No. The chakras have been taken out of context and are now seen as separate from their original use. They originally formed part of a Pranic circulatory system and were connected to breathing techniques used to access prana. The body was divided into four regions (feet to knees, knees to abdomen, etc.), with each representing air, fire, wind or water. The chakras were a way of accessing those regions in a sense, though I am generalising. For example, the heart chakra is normally associated with the thymus gland and the heart and with the circulatory, immune and the endoctrine systems. Is this idea one of Theosophy? If they were associated with physical glands, then surely this would explain the association between pineal gland and ajna. That's all Theosophy. As for astral travel, I haven't experienced it myself. It and the Astral plane are a combination of the 'theories' of Levi, Blavatsky and Churchwarden, all relatively modern and not based on teachings of the East. That obviously does not make it unreal, but the point is that Theosophy says that these traditions confirm that it is, when they don't. MeIT (if you read this) would it be possible for you to point me in the direction of the ancient chakra system, uninfluenced by Theosophy? Is there any particular school of teaching I should study, any reading material you can recommend? I'm beginning to understand the difference, but I still don't know the function, if any, that chakras have in the ancient teachings. Thank you.[/quote] The following is true and repeated on tens of sites, but it's usually with a graphic showing 7, etc., chakras of different colors and telling how each has a particular crystal etc. In fact, nothing in the texts hey mention says anything like that. Go to all of them and see how little relationship they have to what's now said about chakras. "....Chakras are first mentioned in the Vedas, ancient Hindu texts of knowledge. Early text that provide the location of the chakras include: the Shri Jabala Darshana Upanishad, the Cudamini Upanishad, the Yoga-Shikka Upanishad and the Shandilya Upanishad. Hiroshi Motoyama in "Theories of the Chakras: Bridge to Higher Consciousness" discusses these text and that of 10th Century mystic Guru Gorakhnath who wrote in the Goraksha Shataka about awakening these energy centers through meditation..." \n The chakras - rather than the pranic system - were not mentioned that much until Shataka and his development of Hatha Yoga (also called Kundalini). Hatha was the cleansing stage before entering into Raja Yoga. Although there are some who claim to teach it, they avoid many of the main practices, like splitting your tongue so you can turn it back into your throat The text is relatively short and you wont see any references in it to Anoeda Judith or Theosophical-style chakras. Google 'Hatha Yoga Pradypika' for the full text. The Sandilya Upanisad, below, is Theosophy's 'proof' that the Third Eye existed in ancient India, and is the ONLY mention of it in texts they provide. In fact it (and the idea that Taraka could mean 'eye' in that context) was added into the text by the translator. Why? He was a follower of Theosophy, and this version of this text was published by Theosophy. HIs notes to the translation, and the translation itself were designed to validate Theosophy. 48-50. When the consciousness (Samvit) is merged in Prana and when through practice the Prana goes through the upper hole into the Dvadasanta (the twelfth centre) above the palate, then the fluctuations of Prana are stopped. When the eye of consciousness (viz., the spiritual or third eye) becomes calm and clear so as to be able to distinctly see in the transparent Akasa at a distance of twelve digits from the tip of his nose, then the fluctuations of Prana are stopped. When the thoughts arising in the mind are bound up in the calm contemplation of the world of Taraka (star or eye) between one's eyebrows and are (thus) destroyed, then the fluctuations cease. http://www.astrojyoti.com/sandilyaupanishad-2.htm Again a later school, but also using chakras, is Tibetan Vajrayana, look up 'winds and drops' and 'the clear light of bliss'. If any site you go to says that Vajrayana believes in a Third eye, move on MelT
MelT Q Could you tell me who you're quoting as being the source of this idea? It's something that's been spread over the 'net by a variety of followers of the FOl symbolism, but none of them says who actually said that the pinecone is the pineal? A: It is shaped like a tiny pine cone (hence its name), Pineal gland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That isn't what I'm asking. It's shaped like a pinecone, but who originally said that the pinecone represented the pineal in ancient history before it was actually physically seen? You see, the FOL claims that all early uses of the pinecone, such as in ancient Rome, meant the pineal, but as we hadn't seen it or known it was there until relatively recently who in pagan ritual made the supposed connection, long before it's discovery? What I'm getting at is that the early use of the pinecone as symbolism could not have meant the pineal before it was discovered, and before a metaphysical connection was made to it. A connection is made above between early beliefs and the pineal to try to show that it was known in ancient times. In fact, 'the ancients' were British surgeons who discovered and name it in the 1600's. It has no ancient provenance as a pine cone before then, so it can't be a part of original paganism. MelT