ocitown Well - your post can best be described as 'nail head meets hammer' deal - link 'Ditch water' turned out to be the absolute best (mineral count probably as well as inherent microbes) with R/O and 'soft water w/o nitrates' were at the very bottom. Also I learned that R/O does not remove chloramine and I'll look for the specific cite on that for you as well. I don't like posting things without back-up in areas that I'm not completely familiar with and R/O is definitely one area that I lack any knowledge of other than how it basically works. HTH LumperDawgz
not sure chloramines is really that much of a concern I have grown with tap water from multiple municipalities and never had a problem in any of my grows with the water and making my teas. As long as you let the water sit for 24 hours before using it should be fine but even then I wonder if it really needs to be that long.
RichardDean You're absolutely right about using tap water on your plants. My recommendations were relative to brewing ACT (aerated compost teas) where the levels of chlorine and chloramine can be an issue of concern. Your comments about using tap water to hydrate your soils is right on the mark. HTH LumperDawgz
LD can you just keep posting this on this forum. just keep talking, i ran out of questions but i still want to read everything you have to say edit: ok i got one. after i read Teaming with Microbes whats the next book i should buy?
Understanding that you can surely produce an excellent tea by combining mutliple ingredients I will list a few products and use that will save you the time and mess and or smell. *Product *Use 1.MaxiCrop Liquid Seaweed 0.1-0-1.0 Soaking seeds/Bulbs 1 capful per gallon of H2o Seedlings also 1 capful to 1 gallon of H20 Soak clone/cuttings overnight 2 capful -1 gal. H2o or water in cuttings with 1 cap to 1 gallon H2o Indoor Plants 1 capful to 1 gallon water weekly 2.FloraBlend Vegan Tea 0.5-1-1 Use FloraBlend during germination, cuttings, plus veg, flowering, and ripening stages of plant growth For Hydro 1-2 teaspoons per gallon of H2o For Soil 1-2 teaspoons per gallon of H20 3.FoxFarm Big Bloom 0.01-0.3-0.7 Every watering 4 tablespoons per gallon of H2o Heavy Feeding 1/2 cup per gallon of H2o Foliar feeding 2 tbs per gallon of H2o 4.TerraCycle 0.03-0.002-0.02 Spray once a week onto leaves and soil 'til damp 5.Earth Juice Catalyst Contains oat bran, kelp, wheat malt, molasses,yeast 6.Subculture B Microorganism overload, 52 types microorganisms GooD LucK
donedeal COmpost Tea Manual - 5th Edition - by Dr. Elaine Ingham The Field Guide for Actively Aerated Compost Tea (AACT) - by Dr. Elaine Ingham, Soil Food Web Soil Biology Primer - Dr. Elaine Ingham, Andrew R. Moldenke & Clive A. Edwards Before you do that though, you might want to review the articles at Soil Food Web on teas in general - not just AACT. Great resource and it's free which is always nice. BTW - the photos of the compost tea microbes in the chapter on compost teas in the Teaming With Microbes book are photos from field trials with the owner/designer of the $140.00 brewer that I mentioned above. He participates on another cannabis growing-related board and is very helpful. Cheers! LumperDawgz
Why do you advise against using the emulsion for teas? Would it be ok to take a handful of my soil and brew the tea with that, or less efficient?
donedeal The "Alaska Fish Emulsion" product contain uber-levels of mercury and cadmium. In the process of processing of fish emulsion these 'heavy metals' are exaggerated. In the process of extracting the 'good stuff' from fish in the enzyme process reduces these metals. Plus the process maintains any number of beneficial agents in the enzyme processes. HTH LumperDawgz
is it just the Alaskan Fish Emulsion that contains these metals or all fish emulsions, & whats the dif between a fungial tea & bacterial tea
I know that this question is a couple weeks old. You should avoid all fish emulsions, the Alaska one is just the most popular one. It is the process that they make the emulsion that concentrates the heavy metals. Not sure on the exact question of the difference between fungal and bacterial teas. The fungal teas are really great for the soil, but also as a foliar spray to control powdery mildew. Brewing times and ingredients help determine which is more dominant. I use one that is balanced between the two. Lumperdawgz, my question for you is about the bat guano. You stated earlier to avoid this for some reason. Was that when you are trying to brew a specific type of bacterial or fungal tea, or for some other reason. I have read that this stuff is closest to the most ideal organic fert than anything else. The drawback that I have found is that it is not a renewable resource so it is not environmentally responsible.
Jinnate, May I ask where you are getting your info on heavy metals in the Alaska Fish Fertilizer line? The MSDS safety sheets for their Fish Fertilizer and MorBloom products do not list any carcinogenic properties (aside from suspected carcinogen Sulphuric Acid). Also the American Association of Plant Food Control and the California Food & Drug Administration websites list their products as being heavy metals free. Check out: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/fert2.asp?ID=6944 I do note, however, that their MorBloom does appear to contain trace amounts of heavy metals: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/fert2.asp?ID=6948 That sucks because I use the MorBloom product! haha! ~Experimentalist
I first read about it in a post on here from Lumperdawgz. It was a bummer for me because I had just bought a bottle of the stuff a couple of weeks before I read it and the plants were loving it. After I read the post, I started to search online at a dozen or so different places. Here are some links to a great site that has analysis on different products. http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=3840 http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=4438 The first link you had makes it look like it wasn't even analyzed. There are no values entered for any of the elements. I found this information on a lot of different organic forums, and also on some of the fish enzyme websites. I realize that is a conflict of interest since they are trying to sell their product over the fish emulsion. Common sense from reading the extraction process led me to believe the enzyme process is the healthier way to go.
Call me lazy but I prefer to use a commerical organic tea to grow my plants. They way I figure it the less time I spend applying my amateur hand to brewing teas the more time I have to concentrate on tending the garden, which works out better in the end. Advanced Nutrients makes a really top-notch organic tea (Mother Earth Super Tea). Even if I could improve on their formula, I just don't have the time to mess with it. Besides, I'm not sure it's even possible to make a better organic tea for my plants.
iamgrowerman, that looks like a great product. I have something similar from Fox Farm that I use very rarely. It adds some nice nutrients to the plants. Basically there are teas like the Advanced Nutrients and Fox Farm that are used for organic fertilizers, and there are teas that are brewed at certain temps that produce the microorganisms for the soil. I don't brew the aerated tea for ferts, I do it for the microorganisms. This tea needs to be used when you brew it. I wouldn't have the first clue how to make a fert style tea, but it is super easy to make the latter tea. I think you are selling yourself short man, and the plants and soil would love you for it if you used both kinds. Read through the first couple of pages and pay attention to Lumpperdawgz posts. I am regurgitating his information. Some other members also have some great ideas on fert style teas too.
Fantastic thread, more than helpful. Special thanks to Lump Dawg, I just finished up Teaming w/ Microbes and it helped me begin to grasp what is really going on down there in the dirt. So I am in SF and apparently we have some damn good tap water comin straight from Hetch Hetchy http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/11/BAH9VHE23.DTL but unfortunately they started using chloramine a couple years back. My question to all you organic vets is this: I'm aerating my water for an hour with a couple tablespoons of worm castings to clear out the chloramine(thanks for the tip Lump!) when I make tea but is it necessary to do this for regular waterings? It seems like dumping a bunch of chloramine over my thriving soil food web is a bad idea....while at the same time having to add castings and aerate every drop of water they get won't be the most convenient thing either.
Exellent information by Lumperdawgz. Awesome thread! We should all read this again if we're growing organic.
I'd love to make my own inoculant tea (ACT: aerated compost tea) but without having to purchase many products on the internet. We must distinguish these teas from the ferting teas!!! The former feed the micro life and are used 4 times in whole season, the latter are used more often (as Russian comfrey fert, nettles fert, worm castings ferts...). I don't have any miracle grow or Fox farm nutes etc... Probably some people are like me, not in the US or GB, with few supplies. Hell, I can't even get dolomite lime in local garden centers around here! One store carries it though... I just need the easiest, simplest method to activate the micro herd for a dozen plants you know! If someone has an easy tutorial on how to make innoculant teas, it's much appreciated. I've been browsing through different sites and LD's explanations are the best and clearest imo, but I still don't understand everything. People add this or that and not being in the US, I can't get most of the products listed but would like to "kick start" the herds in the soil with the minimum necessary. I think this is very important if we're going organics. List of things I've seen: - worm castings (necessary!) - compost (necessary!) -air stone (necessary but which one for a small personal crop?) -chloramine /chlorine free water: important -molasses (not needed? or just a bit) -kelp (solid?) -seaweed (solid?) -guanos (not needed I think) -fish enzyme (same as kelp?), better than fish emulsion -seed meals (which ones are nec.?) -yucca (read this was a plus?) etc... Some conflicting info on the web, if someone could clear things up and K.I.S.S. (keep it simple and stupid)! Just the basics to get the good guys in the soil. Nothing too fancy. Maybe just brewing up worm castings and compost would be enough?!? As this is my 1st organic grow, I need some help on this important step. Thanks GC!
Teas and Inoculants: (from a web site I googled). "Why is it that people are always looking for which thing or gadget is better? It might be human nature to look for the "next best thing" or "which is the best". I often find myself looking at how to combine things and "get the best of both worlds". There are always pros and cons for everything. Let's take a look at compost tea vs Microbial Inoculant. This is fresh in my mind because it kept coming up at the Organic Growers School. For home owners, brewing tea properly does not seem like a cost-effective or practicle route. This is a compost tea brewer (pictured above, right) used at a golf course in San Francisco. They make the tea and add the microbial inoculant before they apply it to the course. Compost Tea (Pro) Low cost to produce. Great way to get beneficial fungi and protozoa for soils and plants. Can be brewed on site. Easy to apply. Compost Tea (Con) Could brew pathogens without knowing. Inconsistent quality Requires an aeration unit and tank to brew Very short shelf life. ( 24 hours or less) Almost entirely aerobic microbes, lacks facultative microbes. Microbial Inoculant (Pro) High quality, consistent product. Easy to brew/increase populations (Activation) Can be brewed on site or shipped ready-to-use Easy to apply Contains large populations of facultative microbes, enzymes, trace minerals, vitamins, and organic acids Long shelf Life (about 1 year with the Inoc. and 30+ days on the Activated product) Multiple uses beyond horticulture (inoculate compost, odor control, improves water clarity in irrigation ponds, etc) Microbial Inoculant (Con) Does require repeat purchases of "seed" product ([the inoculant they sell]) Does not contain much fungi (yeasts only) or any protozoa Requires the purchase of a sugar source Get the Best of both! Combine the two. Here's how: Following compost tea brewing instructions After aeration cycle is complete (up to 24 hours), turn off aeration. Add Activated Microbial Inoculant at a rate of 1 part [their product] to 50 parts Tea. Follow suggested tea application rates This gives you the facultative microbes, aerobic micorbes, beneficial fungi, and protozoa groups in one inoculant. The other benefit is that the tea is now going to be good for up to a week, as long as it is kept in an airtight container. You can simply mix in a drum or larger tank with a lid. If you are expericened with compost tea already, you will notice improved results. [The brand] has heard from several growers that they have had higher levels of nutrient values in a variety crops. You'll see why Dr. Higa has answered the question, "What is the best inoculant?" with "All of them mixed together." But this doesn't say how to do a simple tea/inoculant for my weed. It uses an expensive machine for grass on a golf course. I deleted the name of the product. Lol. This one costs 400 bucks!!!: haha http://www.acmewormfarm.com/compostbrewers.html Any help? Thanks.
Here's my recipe for vermicast compost tea. One important thing is to make sure you thuroughly cleanse the container you make this in after each brew to prevent other bacteria from forming. In general vermicast is fairly safe to brew without fear of breeding any contagens but adding certain nutrients and or other feces can greatly increase the chance. This is a recipe best suited for a 5 gallon bucket. Two heaping Tablespoons of vermicast One teaspoon molasses for a foliar spray or 1 tablespoon for fermenting into pesticide Past that I will occasionally throw in a small amount of bat guano for N but only during vegetation. You can add fish enzyme and sea kelp and all kinds of stuff but that's about all I go to the trouble of...simply cheaper. Put an air stone in the bottom hooked up to an aquarium air pump and put the vermicast in a tube sock and submerse it into the water. Brew for 24 hours for highest concentration of microbes..they die off after 36 hours from lack of food and space. Use within 24 hours after brewing...UNLESS... You want to make an alcohol fertilizer pesticide...which I do with small batches of it. Add the larger amount of molasses and after brewing it, bottle it and allow it to sit for a few weeks. It will use yeasts naturally in the soil and air and become slightly alcoholic. This really helps keep bugs away...I personally add some high quality tobacco with a high nicotine content to the brew after it's become alcoholic and let it sit for another week or two before I use it. It'll keep most anything bug-wise away from your plants and fertilize them on top of that.
thanks man: great post. Here's your post from the other thread I copied. Great vermicast tea/foliar/inoculant - thanks! By HerbalMethod: Vermicast tea is a great fertilizer. But if you want to get the most bang for your buck...live microbial tea foliar spray. Take a container, a five gallon bucket works well for larger batches, and put an air stone in the bottom hooked up to an air pump. Aquarium air pumps work for the most part. Then fill the container with water. Add a SMALL amount of molasses and depending on your nutrient needs some bat guano and/or sea kelp. Then put some vermicast in a cheese cloth, a tube sock also works, tie it off, and submerse it in the water. Turn on the air pump and watch as it forms a slimy, polysaccharide rich, solution that not only has the nutrient value of a good tea fertilizer but also increases the "EM" of the vermicast. By brewing it thusly you literately breed the good bacteria in the vermicast that break down organic material and turn nutrients into ones more readily accepted by the plant. It's usually best to brew for 24 hours....more than 36 hours and it starts to break down and the microbes die off from lack of food. As it brews it will get a slimy layer on the top. This slimy substance is actually special sugar based molecules called polysaccharides. They prevent soil erosion when applied to soil. The increased microbial effect also helps prevent diseases and molds. It's best used with another fertilizer with plenty of organic matter to break down. Generally is microbially active for 24 hours after removed from air stone. After that is goes aneorobic and if left to sit will actually ferment into a slightly alcoholic fertilizer that helps keep away bugs as well. Once it's fermented steep some good tobacco in it and you've got one helluva fertilizer/bug repellent.