Oh...This is why republicans want off shore drilling!

Why else would they want to drill more besides more oil

Why else would they want to drill more besides more oil

The oil that would be contributed would be pretty insignificant all the way into 2030....

:confused:

Wow, Edward Mazria, solar power pioneer, doesn't support oil in his speculative graph of off-shore oil futures.


Why not allow private companies to drill for oil?

Because of the increased natural habitat for coral and fish from rigs?

Or because of the less than 3% of oil pollution drilling adds to our oceans? Maybe you ecogeeks should bitch about 2-stroke engines before oil drilling.

Worst case scenario, prices are slightly lowered. Best case scenario, we discover lots of oil.

That graph is so inaccurate. Why do we automatically think that demand for oil will continue to increase for the next 22 years? The car companies are all looking at alternative fuel, which will be the future and they are not that far away (ex. Chevy Volt). These cars are the future and they are on the horizon.

Also the best F U to the oil companies is to develop new fuels and power sources, so they no longer have us by the balls with 4-5 dollar a gallon gas.

If we say yes to offshore drilling now we give the oil companies the upper hand.

Though that graph do accuratly depict the insignificance of new offshore drilling in US waters, it fails in depicting future need for oil.

With regards to pressing enviromental issues, I don't see oil being our main energy source by as early as 2020. First, available production will decline well before that, whilst demand will rise with regards to especially China and India. That equals higher oil prices, so high that alternate fuel sources are a viable economic alternative. It might cost an arm and a leg right now to go clean, but as new technologies for manufacturing and storing clean energy goes online, that might change rather fast.

I think the future will be in hydrogen. It will however require a little jumpstart to get going. The technical issue is one thing, but we are well on our way to fixing that. The bigger issue is a matter of the chicken and egg really. Nobody have developed a hydrogen distribution network, the infrastructure, because there is no current market for it. And nobody buys fuel-cell cars, because there are no infrastructure to back it up.

Time for a energy "new deal" perhaps. Massive governmental support to building the hydrogen infrastructure, and it will cost a lot initially. When the infrastructure is in place, the market will develop, and before you know it, it will run itself.

The only waste products being water and bloated egos of those that got in early in what is bound to be the new energy bonanza.

Time for a energy "new deal" perhaps. Massive governmental support to building the hydrogen infrastructure, and it will cost a lot initially. When the infrastructure is in place, the market will develop, and before you know it, it will run itself.

B-b-b-but that's SOCIALISM!

No more than your old "new deal" produced a lot of industry that later got privatized when it went into profit (and payed off the initial government investment).

Some projects are too big for private enterprise to jumpstart. That is where where governments enter the picture ideally.

Say we did have the clean powerplants to produce enough hydrogen, and the infrastructure to distribute it? Car manufacturers would jump over themselves competing for producing cars to take advantage of it. At one point it will reach critical mass, and be self-perpetuating. That is when government backs out, and private interests take over. After the governement made back the initial investment naturally. They are using tax money after all, and as a tax payer, you'd want your government to at least go break-even when up-fronting cash for infrastructure, right?

Edited by Zylark, 17 September 2008 - 10:28 PM.

Offshore drilling in a temporary solution for a long term problem. The US should look ahead of the curve and invest heavily in alternative/renewable energy. We've already begun what will be called the "oil wars" by our children and grandchildren. Wouldn't it be wiser to invest in the developement of such technologies rather than trying to control oil resources via war? If the US doesn't figure out some sort of alternative to oil we will in the future have to fight over Middle East oil and African oil with China imo. China stopped becoming a net exporter around '95 and China has been exerting influence in oil producing nations once dominated by the US, for example Saudi Arabia. Which is the cheaper and smarter alternative when you look at the long term?

I say we take the Paris Hilton approach.

Thats because most americans think this will solve the oil crisis now but they don't think about the future and their kids. Its really solving the problems for 30+ year old people and letting the next generation solve the oil crisis.

Thats because most americans think this will solve the oil crisis now but they don't think about the future and their kids. Its really solving the problems for 30+ year old people and letting the next generation solve the oil crisis.

The people who lived through the 70s and 80s are the least concerned, I'd say.

Either way, oil is a resource that is depleting rather fast. As such it becomes more scarce as demand is on the rise due to growing Asian economies (India and China really).

Evidently, our energy needs cannot be met by oil in the long run.

With enviromental pressure becoming more evident, it seems oil isn't even viable in the short to medium run. We need an alternative, and we need it real soon.

But think of the possibilities. We'd swat at least three flies in one. First, clean energy is good for the environment. Secondly, it would lessen the tension between the major powers now scurrying for energy to keep their economy up (and growing in some cases). Lastly, it would cut the revenue stream to silly muslim (terrorist exporting) states that have the incredible fortune to sit on fossil remains they don't even recognize as a being what they are, millions of years old deposits of long gone life. Not compatible with their creationists dogmas. The irony.

We need a clean energy policy now. For all the developed world. The rest can keep pace or not as they please.

But think of the possibilities. We'd swat at least three flies in one. First, clean energy is good for the environment. Secondly, it would lessen the tension between the major powers now scurrying for energy to keep their economy up (and growing in some cases). Lastly, it would cut the revenue stream to silly muslim (terrorist exporting) states that have the incredible fortune to sit on fossil remains they don't even recognize as a being what they are, millions of years old deposits of long gone life. Not compatible with their creationists dogmas. The irony.

That's irony you can exploit! (As a leader)

Hey McCain's got that strategy too so it must be legit.

Oh please don't make this into a McCain thread. Or Obama for that matter. There are more than enough of those party-political threads.

I've made a pledge to stay out of the US election debacle on this forum. Though I don't hide my disgust for McCain. Then again, I'm not a huge fan of Obama either. But I have no disgust for him

What I am interested in however, is a political debate that do not get locked into some false dichotomy of republican vs democrat. Though I also realize that may get difficult now that the US prez election is getting closer and closer.

edit: Just noticed the title of this thread... Silly me Ah well, the dems have pretty much jumped on the offshore drilling bandwagon too. Probably to pander to the lowest common denominator, but hey. More oil sounds good right, becouse more of something means it cost less, right?

I think duping the electorate in that way is what is really behind this offshore drilling scheme. Any expert will tell them that it is futile, a piss in the ocean.

Edited by Zylark, 18 September 2008 - 12:44 AM.

Oh please don't make this into a McCain thread. Or Obama for that matter. There are more than enough of those party-political threads.

I've made a pledge to stay out of the US election debacle on this forum. Though I don't hide my disgust for McCain. Then again, I'm not a huge fan of Obama either. But I have no disgust for him

What I am interested in however, is a political debate that do not get locked into some false dichotomy of republican vs democrat. Though I also realize that may get difficult now that the US prez election is getting closer and closer.

I agree. Let's hold an official Grasscity debate on November 5!
Provided we haven't all committed suicide yet.

I agree. Let's hold an official Grasscity debate on November 5!
Provided we haven't all committed suicide yet.

Oh no, don't misunderstand me. You americans and others debate the election to your hearts content. All good.

I'm just saying I'll try (*cough*) to stay away as much as I reasonably can.

First because I cannot really support either candidate. Secondly, I got no vote, so why bother. And last, I think it just a horse and pony show. Got very little to do with actual politics. Thus far.

more off shore drilling has got to be the stupidest idea i've ever heard to curb our foreign oil consumption and yet somehow idiots across america are getting behind it. we don't even have that much oil! we could drain all the oil off our shores and it wouldn't do shit. this is pretty typical politics, appealing to idiots. and guess what? it worked! all you idiots ate the bullshit the republicans fed you.

more off shore drilling has got to be the stupidest idea i've ever heard to curb our foreign oil consumption and yet somehow idiots across america are getting behind it. we don't even have that much oil! we could drain all the oil off our shores and it wouldn't do shit. this is pretty typical politics, appealing to idiots. and guess what? it worked! all you idiots ate the bullshit the republicans fed you.

Seems to me that it was a compromise to let them save face after acting a fool.

How about american jobs?

I live in the poorest county in Florida and it would bring in an influx of money and work to my people that would uplift us from being one of the poorest counties to the richest. This is the one thing you fucking democrats can't grasp when it comes to foreign policy, the more we do to created economy in areas like mine, the better the country does in the long run. I'm voting Obama, but I really hope he decides to allow for drilling off the coast of Florida. My city can bearly afford civil services like police, fire, etc that something like the oil industry would bring in a whole lot more dough than tourism. Tourism has droughts sometimes, and when that happens, the people living here suffer majorly.

This may be a short term gain to a long terms problem, but the solution on the otherside is no better than short term gain. But that is how commerce works, are we supposed to wait tell we consume even more oil to use what we have ourselves or do we use it now somewhat to get to a almost non-reachable goal. There will have to be some kind of great industrial invention like the assemply line or the cotton gin to get us out of this fucking qagmire.

Edited by IGOTJOINTS4YA, 18 September 2008 - 05:22 AM.