All About Lighting

DebU · Sep 8, 2015

Hi,
I am new here. What a great site!
So here is my question that does not seem to be addressed that I can find. We built a very insulated grow room and installed a temp controlled exhaust fan. It was based on the recommendations for a greenhouse . .not enclosed room .. and so is way too big.
So in the winter, the fan sucks in cold moist air from the rest of the barn . .and I get powdery mildew. I tried running a dehumidifier .. but puts out heat ..the fan kicks on more often . .endless cycle as you can see.
I am presently using a 600 w HPS that converts to MH for the veg part. That obviously puts out a ton of heat.
I gave up on growing during the non summer months because of the mildew issue. But now I am considering 3 options
Use an air-conditioner in there. . .boo so much electricity!
Install an inline fan on the light hood with a rheostat and have that run on low speed. . . hopefully not sucking in a lot of cold air at a time would help?
Or .switching to T-5 fluorescent lighting. The guy at the local grow store said they did a test . .and 4oo wt of T-5s produced ONE THIRD the amount as 400 wt HPS. Boo!
So . .I am thinking . .why not install 3 time as many T5 fixtures? But how much electricity would that use? And how much heat would be generated? I know they compute electrical use based on watts . .but that makes no sense. A 400 w HPS fixture uses a ton of the electricity on heat . .the T5 not so much. So I don't see how you can compare the electrical use of the two based on watts alone.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
DebraU

FarronFrosty · Sep 17, 2015

So I have a question, I'm having an appraiser come to my place do his work, although my grow area is stealthy, it's still kinda noticeable, so I was thinking of shutting off the lights for a hour or two while he is here so he doesn't notice the lights, currently I'm running my lights 24/7, so my question is will my plants be fine if I do this? I assume it shouldn't bother them too much but didn't want to take any chances, what do you think?

FarronFrosty · Sep 17, 2015

jcj77d said:


LIGHTS

As you know, the most important thing when considering plant growth is understanding limiting factors. Plant growth is determined by limiting factors, if your plants do not receive enough of any one (1) factor they won't grow at the maximum rate no matter how much of any other factor you give your plants. To be a better grower find your limiting factor. Increasing your limiting factor, will increase growth without having to adjust or do anything else. There are several major factors that can limit plant growth, listed in order of importance they are: light, water, temperature, carbon and nutrients. Light is the energy source for photosynthesis, and photosynthesis provides the energy for all the plants physiology. If you don't give your plants enough light it does not matter how much fertilizer, CO2 or any other factor you give your plants, they won't grow bigger or faster. If you are reading this, I assume you are one of the smart people who have a high quality light source. Understanding what light is and how different types of light affect plant growth will make you a better indoor grower. After reading this, you can tell your friends exactly why they too need a high quality light.

Light
1. What is light
2. How light is involved with photosynthesis
3. Light as wavelengths
4. Light, plant physiology, and flowering
5. Basic lighting regime for most plants
6. Light fixtures
7. Light Measurement

What is light? Visible light is just a small part of the massive amounts of energy released by the sun, all the energy the sun emits is collectively called radiant energy. Light is sometimes called white light, because it appears white to the human eye. Have you ever used a prism to make a rainbow from a light source? A prism separates white light into its various components. White light consists of all the colors of the rainbow, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet (remember ROY G BIV from junior high school?). The energy of white light is what plants use for photosynthesis and interestingly is the same energy we interpret as vision. Color, is actually how our minds interpret the various energy waves that make up white light. (there are no colors, there is only your minds interpretation of energy of different wavelengths that you think are colors--- sit down and think about that sometime). As an indoor grower, it is important to keep in mind that different light fixtures emit different percentages of white light, not every light source is good for every plant.

How light is involved with photosynthesis
Photosynthesis is the process of using light (light energy) to make carbohydrates (chemical energy) which plants use to grow and flower. Photosynthesis occurs in plant leaves, specifically inside cells in something called a chloroplast. Photosynthesis is a metabolic process, meaning there are many steps involved from the first reactant to the last product. Basically, photosynthesis begins with pigments inside the chloroplasts (chlorophyll a, b and others) that absorb specific types of light energy (colors). The captured light energy is used to make high energy electrons, which then use their energy to make a more stable energy source which is used up in order to combine carbon dioxide (CO2) into carbohydrates/sugars (C6H1206) and in the process give off oxygen (02). The balanced equation for photosynthesis may be written as: Light Energy + 6CO2 + 6H20 ---> C6H1206 + 6 02
The chemical formula C6H1206 is the formula for the sugar glucose. Plants make many different sugars, but glucose is usually the sugar used in textbook diagrams. Thus, we see the three biggest inputs required for photosynthesis and good plant growth, are light, carbon dioxide and water.

Light as wavelengths
Light wavelengths (colors) are measured in units called a nanometer (nm). Different wavelengths appear as different colors. Indoor growers need to have a light that emits the proper type of light wavelengths for their plant and the plants life cycle. Some plants need high amounts of red to flower for example. However, light intensity is also important (More below). White light ranges in wavelength from roughly 400 nm to 700 nm. When looking at light and photosynthesis, red and blue light are by far the two most important colors concerning plant growth. Red and blue are absorbed by the chlorophyll pigments very efficiently. Other pigments, caretenoids for example absorb more yellow. The diversity of pigments in plants helps them absorb energy from various colors. More pigments help plants get more energy from white light. With less pigments there is less energy available for plants to absorb. The same concept explains
why some people are color blind. Some color blind people can not tell green from red because they are lacking one of three pigments in the human eye used to differentiate (absorb) these colors. Generalities due to different wavelengths of light energy 400-500 nm (blue) helps in keeping internode length (the space between branches along the main stem of a plant) small and will increase the number of chloroplasts in a plant, making them turn a dark green. A certain about of blue light is required for most higher plants to grow and flower. 500-560 nm (green) Not necessary for photosynthesis, but is a significant component of some light sources. 560-590 nm (yellow) Not a major wavelength for photosynthesis, but this color is absorbed by some plant pigments and can be linked with some plants and flowering. Excess yellow light can lead to long internode lengths and lankyness. 590-630 nm (orange) Not a major wavelength for photosynthesis but is absorbed by some pigments so it can contribute to photosynthesis in some plant species. 630-700 nm (red) Required by most plants for maximal photosynthesis and normal physiological activities. Some red light is required for most higher plants to successfully grow and flower. 700-750 nm (far-red) Involved with flowering, stem elongation, and is used to keep track of day length of certain plant species (as a function of the red/far-red ratio) Red and yellow light are associated with flowering in many plants. I have worked in greenhouses where plants that were grown under florescent bulbs (high blue) had an incandescent light (high yellow) added to induce or promote flowering. This is also one reason that some growers use high pressure sodium lights, their light output being more intense, but also emitting more energy in the red/yellow end. (See light fixtures below)

Light, plant physiology, and flowering
Green plants use light for purposes other than photosynthesis. The duration of light is ultimate in determining when and how many plants flower (See Basic lighting regime for most plants below). An interesting phenomenon of light is phototropism, when plants bend toward the light. You can see this in a plant placed in the window, the leaves will turn to face the incoming light through the window. Predominantly blue light is responsible for this in plants. Light is also used by plants to regulate plant life processes, this is called photoperiodism. Light can determine when perennial plants stop growing, when leaves fall off deciduous trees, and light even affects seed germination. Red and far-red (infrared) are often associated with photoperiodism. Since plants do not wear watches or even have eyes, how do they tell night from day? Plants have a pigment in them called phytochrome that is sensitive to light. To understand the basics of light detection you just need to know that phytochrome comes in two types, light and dark. When light is hitting the plant, dark phytochrome turns into light phytochrome, and you guessed it, in the absence of light, light phytochrome turns to dark phytochrome. It is the ratio of dark to light phytochrome that plants use to measure day length. When the amount of dark phytocropme gets to a certain point i.e. the nights are a certain length, the plant will begin to flower. To be honest, plants measure the length of the night (also called the â€œdark periodâ€ by indoor plant growers and it is when the lights are turned off). Translation Ã turning your lights off in the middle of the day (light cycle) to fix something, install new equipment etc. will not affect growth and flowering. BUT, if you turn the light on in the middle of the night (dark cycle), you WILL affect flowering. If you do not have a light proof room you will have â€œlight leaksâ€ into your garden during the â€œdark periodâ€, you may end up with some very odd or no flowering responses. If you can't devote a whole room to growing, you could try using a grow tent. Grow tents are light proof and provided an excellent â€œmicroclimateâ€ to grow your plants in. Concerning plant physiology and growth, a common misconception I hear is that pruning big shade leaves and older leaves will allow the smaller leaves to have more light. The big shade leaves on broadleaf plants have more chlorophyll (sometimes seen as being darker green). In most cases, it is a bad idea to remove big shade leaves, they are contributing to the photosynthesis rate, and hence the growth rate of the plants. Move them so that younger leaves on that or other plants are not blocked from light. Older leaves on plants can actually have high rates of photosynthesis with lower light intensity, so don't think the big shade leaves are being wasted if you tie them down, they are contributing to the growth rate. If they don't get enough light, they will yellow and die, but at least this way, all the nutrients in that leaf will be used by the plant.

Basic lighting regime for most plants
If you are interested in flowering and fruit, which is why most of us grow, the changing day length determines when many plants flower. The change in the duration of night is why different plants flower in spring (nights longer than day) summer (nights shorter than days) or fall (nights getting longer). Temperature also plays a part in the plants life cycle and some plants just flower after a certain amount of time. Other plants need to build up specific nutrients over time to get big enough before they will flower. There are many plants that need a certain amount of darkness in order to trigger them to begin flowering. Indoor growers must know the light requirements for their plants in order to promote flowering. This is simply the ratio of how long the lights are on versus off. This can be determined with some basic knowledge: does you plant naturally (in the wild) flower in the spring, summer or fall? Spring plants will need warmth to start growing and light at least equal to dark. Summer plants will need a grow period and increasing light versus dark. Fall plants will need a growth period with long days followed by shorter days, light on for 12 hours off for 12 for example to simulate the shortening fall days. For most plants, I start off giving seedlings 24 hrs of light for the first couple weeks. Most plants do not need the dark cycle for the first two weeks so the theory isÃ the more light the faster the growth. I always start seedlings under high output T5 fluorescent lights. Bulbs for these lights that are high on the blue end of the light spectrum (6500K Grow Bulbs) are available and recommended to use so that seedlings will have short internode lengths and be dark green. I have noticed that some plants do start to yellow with 24 hr light after 2 weeks, switching to 18 hrs on 6 off tends to help them begin to grow better. Eventually, all plants need to have a dark period for certain molecular cues to go off and normal plant growth to occur.

Lighting Fixtures
There are numerous plant lighting systems on the market today, each with their own good and bad aspects. Choosing the right light for your situation is the most important part to growing indoors effectively.

1. Incandescent lamps - These are the standard household â€œlight bulbsâ€ that Thomas Edison improved upon in 1879 which was then a 50 year old idea. Incandescents are not good for growing plants as the only light source; they are very inefficient, using a lot of energy to produce little light output. They also emit predominantly red/yellow light causing seedlings to grow lanky (over stretched) and fall over. They may be used to supplement the flowering period to increase the amount of yellow light which can help induce some plants to flower.

2. Fluorescent lamps -The fluorescent lamp is well suited for indoor plant growth,
especially â€œHigh-Outputâ€ T5 fluorescent lamps. Fluorescent lamps are 3-7 times more
efficient than incandescent lamps meaning you will use less electricity for the same
amount of light. Fluorescent bulbs come in a wide spectrum of light, 6500K grow bulbs
have more light on the blue end so they promote bushiness in plants whereas the 3000K bloom bulbs have more light in the red end of the spectrum so they promote flowering. However, these lights have a low light output, meaning you need to keep the lights within a few inches of the tops of plants. This means that fluorescent lights are not usually a good light source for big plants (over 3 feet). You can use fluorescents with big plants if you have lights above and along the side of the plant.

3. High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps - These include metal halide (MH) and high
pressure sodium (HPS). These lights are traditionally used for lighting large areas such
as gymnasiums, warehouses and parking lots. Today, they are the primary choice for
indoor plant growth. HID lamps are 4-8 times more efficient than incandescent lamps.
These lamps have a high light output, (and produce a lot of heat) so they should be
placed about two feet or more above the top of the plants. Metal halide lights have a
wider range of wavelengths so they are a good all purpose light able to be used in all
stages of plant growth, seedling, vegetative and flowering. I use high pressure sodium which have a higher intensity of light per watt compared to MH, but they also emit more red and yellow light. This is great for promoting flowering and fruit. In spite of this, they are not the best light source for seedlings. A MH conversion bulb is a good option for vegetative growing plants, but it may be more economical if you have the room to have one area with fluorescent lights for seedlings, and young plants, and when the plants get bigger put them in another area where you promote flowering.

4. LED or Light Emitting Diodes â€“ These are a new lighting source for growing plants
indoors. These lights are very efficient, using very low amounts of electricity and giving
off minimal heat energy. However, they emit light in a very specific range. This could
mean that plants do not get all the light wavelengths they need, or it could mean that
plants get just what they need and nothing more. The idea is that you don't go any
further by over filling your gas tank vs. a full tank, so why use electricity to provide light
that plants won't use. There are numerous experiments testing to see what percentage of red and blue light an LED needs to promote good growth and flowering. One thing has
been established by scientific studies: You will not be able to grow a plant with just one color LED! All LED for indoor growing should have red and blue, and possibly
yellow, although testing is underway in many labs around the world looking at what
amount of each color is best for different plant species. You could definitely use a single
color LED to supplement your current lights. You could use blue LED with HPS during
vegetative and early flowering to reduce internode length or use a red LED with MH to
promote and improve flowering.

Light Measurement
I will end this letter discussing how to measure the amount of light your plants have available to them. The light used for plant growth, i.e. the energy absorbed by plant pigments, is different than the light absorbed by human pigments in the eye. This means that the foot-candle which is based upon the sensitivity of human eye pigments (light in the 550-560nm range) is a poor measure of light for your plants. Before you throw out your foot-candle light meter however, keep in mind it can still be used for measuring light intensity and how well light is spread evenly in your grow area. Foot candles are a measure of light intensity. While a lamp (the source of the light energy) produces lumens. Lumens are a term for measuring the visible output of a lamp or â€œbulbâ€. A standard 60 watt incandescent lamp is rated at an output of 900 lumens. A 400 watt metal halide lamp produces 36,000 lumens and a 400 watt high pressure sodium lamp produces 50,000+ lumens. Generally, HPS lamps are more efficient light producers (more lumens per watt), these lamps produce a range of 100-140 lumens per watt, while MH lamps produce a range of 70-110 lumens per watt. As I mentioned above, metal halides have a broader spectrum of light having more blue light while HPS has more yellow â€“ red light as a part of their total intensity. Scientists who study light and plant growth don't use foot-candles or lumens. A light meter that counts the number of photons is more accurate in predicting photosynthesis than foot-candle meters. Smaller growers have continued to use foot-candle meters, which as I said, measure light for humans. Foot candle meters have errors of up to 45% when used to measure light for photosynthesis (ouch!). Measuring light in scientific experiments is done in something termed Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF) and its units of measure are micromole per meter squared per second (Î¼mol m-2 s-1). This term is based on the number of photons in a certain waveband, per unit time (s) on a unit area (m2) divided by the Avogadro constant (6.022 x 1023 mol-1). It is used commonly to describe photosynthesis rates in the light wavelengths plants use i.e. the 400-700 nm wavebands. I am not recommending you spend thousands of dollars on a Quantum measurement device, I simply want you to understand how light should be measured in scientific experiments. There are devices available, but most are 100's to 1000's of dollars, and maybe not in the budget of a hobbyist. Considering photons of light energy you should ask how much do your plants need? Keep in mind that a daily average irradiance of 26 Î¼mol m-2 day-1 will effectively grow most species of higher plants. The maximum solar irradiance around midday of 2000 Î¼mol m-2 s-1 is transient and is not necessary for normal plant growth since the plants growth is a factor of the average
daily irradiance of light. Light intensity is important over time. This is why you can sometimes greatly improve or expand you grow room with a light mover such as a high quality Light Rail or Solar Revolution light mover. If you are giving you plants more than enough light, you can spread the light out (move it) so long as the daily average is still at the maximum. Keep average daily irradiance in mind when you are planting your outside garden if you have sun loving plants, make sure they get the sun of the midday, it might not matter that they miss a few hours of morning and evening sunlight if they are in full midday sun. This also explains why some plants only prefer morning or evening sun, they can not tolerate the full intensity of the midday sun, they prefer some shade. If you are growing a plant such as this, like an African violet and some types of terrestrial Orchids, you may only need fluorescent lights, since the light of an HID may be too intense. What ever you are growing, start with a good light source and you will be well on your way to good growing.
Click to expand...

So I have a question, I'm having an appraiser come to my place do his work, although my grow area is stealthy, it's still kinda noticeable, so I was thinking of shutting off the lights for a hour or two while he is here so he doesn't notice the lights, currently I'm running my lights 24/7, so my question is will my plants be fine if I do this? I assume it shouldn't bother them too much but didn't want to take any chances, what do you think?

capt.murphy · Sep 17, 2015

FarronFrosty said:

So I have a question, I'm having an appraiser come to my place do his work, although my grow area is stealthy, it's still kinda noticeable, so I was thinking of shutting off the lights for a hour or two while he is here so he doesn't notice the lights, currently I'm running my lights 24/7, so my question is will my plants be fine if I do this? I assume it shouldn't bother them too much but didn't want to take any chances, what do you think?
Click to expand...

They'll be fine and probably enjoy a little sleep.

FarronFrosty · Sep 17, 2015

capt.murphy said:

They'll be fine and probably enjoy a little sleep.
Click to expand...

Alright cool thanks, I assumed they wouldn't care but just wanted to be sure

fatboi420 · Sep 19, 2015

Ok is a 3x3x6 grow tent better with a 400w dim or a 600w dim both with cool tubes. I know a high powered fan is needed but can a 190 cfm inline do the job.. w/ scrubber. I found a deal for the 600w dim cheaper than the 400w dim. I plan on expanding later on. Can anybody give advise.

capt.murphy · Sep 20, 2015

fatboi420 said:

Ok is a 3x3x6 grow tent better with a 400w dim or a 600w dim both with cool tubes. I know a high powered fan is needed but can a 190 cfm inline do the job.. w/ scrubber. I found a deal for the 600w dim cheaper than the 400w dim. I plan on expanding later on. Can anybody give advise.
Click to expand...

Mo' lights = mo' betta as long as you can control temps

rumiglow · Oct 1, 2015

doups3 said:

LED: Jury is still out, but can be used to help either the flowering or vegetation process.
Click to expand...

If I was sitting on the Jury, I would say that good LED fixtures are prime for cannabis. From what I've seen, cannabis growers that have spent the time to dial in their growth environments (temps, water, nutes and light intensities) are seeing amazing results with LEDs.

I submit to the Jury this rock wool ebb n' flow table grow. 2 Pro 650's over each 3' x 6' table. All LED lighting from clone to flower.

The fixtures paid for themselves after the first grow. And the electricity cost was cut by more than 50% (lighting AND cooling).

capt.murphy · Oct 1, 2015

rumiglow said:

If I was sitting on the Jury, I would say that good LED fixtures are prime for cannabis. From what I've seen, cannabis growers that have spent the time to dial in their growth environments (temps, water, nutes and light intensities) are seeing amazing results with LEDs.

I submit to the Jury this rock wool ebb n' flow table grow. 2 Pro 650's over each 3' x 6' table. All LED lighting from clone to flower.

The fixtures paid for themselves after the first grow. And the electricity cost was cut by more than 50% (lighting AND cooling).
Click to expand...

That post is 4 years old, when LED was just gettin big haha but I must agree you have some killer plants

Peflora · Oct 14, 2015

dy using hot5s here?

Mine has gathered dust for a couple years while I explored various leds- from household Cree bulbs to led tubes to BML SPYDR 600 to several Amare Tech panels and most recent Transcend Lighting LED D200 230w, designed as supplemental lights in greenhouses

Transcend has also introduced their own 4ft led tubes, so I dusted off my Quantum Bad Boy in preparation for getting some.

I started this grow with 2 @ 6 netpot bubbler totes. I selected the best 4 plants and put 2 each under an Amare T SE 220 (COB hybrid) and the Transcend D200 (remote phosphor). Since all were started from seed I had no idea which would become females, so I put the hot5 in a 3rd tent using CFLs; 2 ZooMed Florosuns + 2 Quantum 6500k veg lights

This CFL combination provides a very natural daylight appearance to the leafs, and the plants are loving it more than the led plants

Within a week, the hot5 plants under ~ 216w (4 tubes) caught up to the leds, and look every bit the part!

All plants are still in veg for another ~ 6 days. When I flip I will add the 2 Transcend flowering tubes I received

Come by my thread to see the show

New pics tomorrow

Hybridway · Oct 25, 2015

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad with the Hydropnics Hut LED lights? Pls LMK as I am planning on purchasing one along with 2 other LEDs to compare before buying them for my whole room. New tech., eliminating the need for multi-bands or whites, providing a full spectrum from each diode, similiar to a COB but from the 3 & 5 watt diodes as well. All one exact color of the spectrum providing a uniform, intense light for our girls! Thank you! Surprised the LED users on this sight aren't all over it, plus 1/2 the price of comparable claiming companies out of the U.S.. Anyone????

FireLungs · Oct 28, 2015

Has anyone here used 130 watt dual spectrum cfl's ?

dubbford · Dec 3, 2015

Hello all, I'm just trying to finish my tent setup (32"32"63") with the right light. I have two of these LEDs currently, and am trying to decide between an additional 400W Apollo dimmable HPS and a 300W Galaxyhydro LED. I'd appreciate any help and suggestions! Thanks

Hillbillyhemp · Dec 7, 2015

I have a 130 sq ft room and 4 600w Hps lights. Reading about 105,000 lumens each. Thinking about buying 2 more. Is it necessary? Would I need 2 more or is about 3250 lumens, 19watts, per sqft enough?

COVET73 · Dec 8, 2015

I'm getting ready to set up a good sized medical grow. I'm trying to set up two rooms that are about 12ftX12ft each. I know that 4 1000W HIDs will provide all the light I'll need for those two spaces, one veg one bloom. My question is would it be worth using LED over HID lights and what experience do ya'll have with either or both?
If HID is the way to go I'm going with 8" flow through hoods with digital ballast. I've looked a few brands, honestly they seem about the same and it's a matter of who really.
LED wow there is so much information out there. Everyone has a horror story or "I never thought it would happen to me" with how great their LED experience has been. Problem is they don't seem to offer a comparison that is direct. If I'm going to drop this kind of $$$$ I want to have someone show me not sell me.
You if anyone can offer some wisdom on the topic thank you.

kingo123 · Dec 9, 2015

Can I get someone's input on what they think of this light?

http://m.alibaba.com/product/1977511161/Grow-System-500W-led-grow-light/specifications.html?spm=a2706.7835515.1998800312.15.D8dbpP

Is it worth investing in?

abbottbud · Dec 10, 2015

I'm curios to see what any one's input would be, regarding to a shop light from Sam's club. It's an LED that draws 40w and gives off 4200 lumens of light.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/4ft-led-shoplight-sho...

I picked one up for someone's birthday and she absolutely love love love it! I kind of love it too, and thought about picking up a few for myself. It's only 40 bucks.... It sure does gives off tremendous amount of bright white light. I'm tempted to pick a few of these and see how they do over some clones. Thoughts?

I have couple options: Either invest into those leds or get myself the t5 hortilux powerVEG Bulbs to put into my really old fixtures. lol

jessahrens16@yahoo.com · Feb 21, 2016

great info thank you!

jasper19 · Mar 10, 2016

Im pulling my hair out, what little I have, trying to decide which LED to buy. I have spent literally hours and hours trying to find a independent review of current brands and I realized what a cesspool of lies some of this crap is.
I was going to go with California or Kind but after reading they are made in china and the claims that they are ALL mostly made by the same company or 2 and they use leds that are not what they pretend to be. Maybe.
For the moment, which changes, Im leaning to a Advanced Lighting Diamond series 150 watt for a 2x2.5 Gorilla tent. They are US made and have a better warranty.
I have never seen anything like the back biting, accusations of fraud, cheating and snake oil salesmanship from reps of one brand against the other.
Im not going to build my own either. Im just looking for a good solid light that covers the best spectrums and amount of light and good coverage.
I have googled my ass off trying to find some real world honest testing with some of these brands and a light that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. $600 is my max for this.

growever · Mar 23, 2016

New LED growing , great LED ,very powerful

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