Stop That SMELL!!!!

Discussion in 'Grow Room Design/Setup' started by BioloGyMaJor, May 8, 2008.

  1. icmag also has a "micro grow" category that has a diy carbon filter club thread, there are like 30 or so different designs on that thread alone.

    And anything is possible but it cant be compared to the ease or effecieency of DIY cooltubes and DWC.

    And there are diff grades/ratings/qualities of carbon i assure you. I wouldnt buy from the guy at the filter manufacturer that said his carbon wasnt much diff than the fish carbon.

    Since you sound determined... Get granilized obviously. You can get quality stuff on ebay for about 1.30-1.50 a lb. I have the same size cab as you and i use a can 33. It is 12 inches long 12 inch outer diameter , 8.0 inch innet diameter with a 1.5 inch bed of carbon and it rated for a min of 100 max of 200 cfm at a SP of .75. Sounds like that would work for your fan assuming your not using a cheap axial fan. The can filter website has more size, weight, and cfm measurements.If you are using a cheap axial fan..you need more luck. I also use a can 2900 that is 18" by 6 inch diameter and has 1" of activated carbon and is rated for a max of 50 cfm. A 150 cfm axial fan may work with it as it only causes a SP of .20.

    I made 3 of my own filters in the past and i always added .5 inch to the bed of the mass produced carbon scrubbers just to increase confidence. Also it helps if you get a automatic sander and tape it to the filter housing when filling it. This way it kinda packs down the carbon and you can fit alot more in.

    I recommend finding someone who has built one and purchased a quality one. See if they would ever use a DIY one again.

    Best of luck...
     
  2. that's the biggest mistake people make.. you really need to know the CFM rating of your filter. The stanky air has to pass through the carbon at a certain flow in order for it to work. If the fan is too powerful it'll continue to smell.
     
  3. I have a small stealth box setup that I intend to start in my closet, the boxes are both based out of old radio speakers; I appreciate the copious amounts you guys are growing, but what would you guys recommend for a small time grower like me? (Each box will have 1 plant, 2 speakers total) My budget is large, but I would definitely prefer getting something specifically for my needs...

    Thanks for the tips!
     


  4. Im only growing 2 plants as well but in 36 cu ft so they may be larger than yours. It is hard to find small filters for those types of enclosures. I recommend going to ICmag and they have a thread in the growers forum called micro grows. There are people there who used different techiniques to clean air including small filters...good luck.
     
  5. great stuff guys :)
     
  6. this is a good idea to cut the number of my posts here a bit)

    special thanks to fullmetalljacket

    i did scanned the ICmag forum and i was totally dissapointed
    no good formulas, no scientific approach ether, no good quality posts
    describing all wanted dimentions , cfm, etc

    DONT WASTE TIME ON THAT
    WELL GET SOME MORE SERIOUS ACTION HERE
    AS SOON AS I POST A GOOD FORMULA A BIT LATER

    ALSO THERE IS NO AGITATION IN MY POSTS IM NOT TRYING TO MAKE
    ALL OF U USE ONLY DIY FILTERS
    BUY ONE IF U CAN
    I JUST NEED THE TRUTH
    and the info collected will help people get the right combo
    and find out why the odor is leaking if they already installed a bad one
     
  7. here is what ive found so far

    so far ive been focused on three models
    and im going to post all i know here and then
    compare and come up with something similar my way
    then check it with the formula then try to make one

    MODEL 1

    FAN SPECS: 200-300 cfm
    LENGTH (filter): 12"
    OUTER CORE: 8"
    INNER CORE: 6"
    FLANCE: 6"
    CARBON BED WIDTH: 1"
    WEIGHT: 5 lbs

    MODEL 2

    FAN SPECS: 200-500 cfm
    LENGTH (filter): 25"
    OUTER CORE: 8"
    INNER CORE: 6"
    FLANCE: 6"
    CARBON BED WIDTH: 1"
    WEIGHT: 12 lbs

    MODEL 3 (well known can 33)

    FAN SPECS: 200-350 cfm
    LENGTH (filter): 13"
    OUTER CORE: 12"
    INNER CORE: 10"
    FLANCE: 6"
    CARBON BED WIDTH: 2"
    WEIGHT: 27 lbs

    this is a bit confusing me becouse of such big differensys
    but in the end it all makes scense
    as far as i understand i have to make a carbon layer fatter due to a low density
    of a DIY carbon layer manufacturers press it tight and the can 33 shows that
    but i dont want to make it so fat (can 33)
    so i would make it longer (bigger surface) but a bit thinner

    OK I WOULD TRY THIS
    FAN SPECS: 300 cfm
    LENGTH (filter): 20"
    OUTER CORE: 10"
    INNER CORE: 7-8"
    FLANCE: 6"
    CARBON BED WIDTH: 1,5 - 2"
    WEIGHT: ??? lbs (CLOSER TO 15-18)

    now all i need to do is to check what i came up with
    lets see.... a bit later

    check the pics
    1 MODEL 1
    2 MODEL 3 (can 33)
    3 MODEL 2
    sorry for this mess its not my fault
     

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  8. by the way i mentioned my fan was 150 cfm
    I MADE A MISTAKE (that metric vs. US shit is killing me)
    sorry

    MY FAN IS 300 CFM (which is also 500 CM/h) !!!!!!!!!!
     

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  9. Fans and carbon scrubbers have become one of my passions in order to be totally stealth. I forget where I saw it but for air cleaning carbon needs .05 seconds of contact time to be effective, Thats why I use fans that fit the room but go a little oversize on my carbon scrubber.

    I use a 4 inch econo vortex style fan rated at 125 cfm with a 6 inch ID and 8 inch OD carbon scrubber. My room is 5 x 10 x 8 (WXLXH) = 400 so it turns it over every 3 or so minutes.

    Anyway, what I have found is that DIY or even ebay style DIY type carbon scrubbers do not have inner cones that have small holes at the top and gradually get bigger towards the bottom. So that air flow is evenly distributed over the carbon and lengthens the life of the scrubber.


    Just food for thot!
     
  10. Dewave is right about the holes, to distribute the load on the filter. I could not think of a way to do this on my old DIY so i just made them reversable so that i can swith which side was being over utilized every few months.

    scredababylon - got your pm. Your stats look right. But dont let the cfm values confuse you. The max cfm for the 33 filter is 200 cfm. Maybe a 300 cfm fan pulling against .75 static pressure(sp) would make it 200 cfm though.

    static pressure is the amount of resistence in airflow the filter creates.

    Here are the stats from the site:
    Max cfm: 200/350m³h
    @ 0.1 sec contact time
    Recommended Min Airflow: 100 cfm
    Prefilter: Yes
    Flange: 6 & 8"
    Dimensions: (with pre-filter)
    ·Outside Diameter: 305mm/12"
    ·Height: 330mm/13"
    ·Total Weight: 11.5kg/25.3lbs.
    ·Carbon Weight: 7.5kg/16.5lbs.
    ·Carbon Bed Depth: 50mm/2"
    Max Operating Temp: 80ºC
    Pressure drop at max cfm: 180pa/. 75wg

    Nice fan by the way. Definitely big enough. I use the same brand i think but mine does 478 cfm. I wired mine on low and use a speed controller. Is that is a TD-150?

    This PDF shows you the the cfm of the different S&P fans and also an adjusted cfm based on the SP.
    http://www.hvacquick.com/catalog_files/solerpalau_TD_Extended_Catalog.pdf?PHPSESSID=j1u6lpnqedt1u5r3rlcseln0i0

    so if that is a td-150 it will do 131 cfm at a SP. .75 which is fine for something like the can 33. You just want to make sure you dont excede that max and are able to pull air across it fast enough to do the air exchange at least every 2-3 min deal.

    I would think if you make it longer and slimmer that different size holes to distribute the pulling air across the filter would be more inportant. But like i said before, i am not so familair with the different size holes.
     
  11. well every source i found was sayn the 0.1 second is the best
    (there were planty of them)

    the last tip about the inner cone style core
    is great - noone mentioned that + rep for your eagle eye )
     
  12. great to see an ally like you here
    yea i see what the sp now - tnx - unfortunatly there is no way we can monitor it
    yeah the fan is pretty cool and i think it will work
    this model is called TD-500 here
    and the stats u posted is close to what i saw about the can 33

    now prepare for some ill maths...
     
  13. here is the post i found and edited a bit
    it had some good feedbacks around


    In order to know how much carbon one needs, one must know how much air one is pulling through it.
    The flow of air must be in contact with carbon for 0.1 seconds.
    For approximately 32 cuft of volume to be vented I chose a 265cfm (4" duct) Dayton blower.
    Chose to use 60% of the rated flow rate as maximum (due to ducting, static pressure losses)

    -----------------------------------------------------
    The flow rate used
    .60 * 265 cfm = 156 cfm, I will use 160 cfm
    Length of my filter is 18" (u can choose any u want)

    So, I have to take 160 cfm coming from a 4" duct (at a good speed) that needs to be passed through a layer of carbon that it must stay in contact with for 0.1 seconds..

    Well I know the lenght of the filter but I don't know the width of the filter or the thickness. This is how you find out

    width
    WIDTHfilter = 2*Pi*(4"duct)/2 = 3.14159*4 = 12.57 in

    surface

    So the surface area of the filter is
    AREAfilter = WIDTHfilter * LENGHTfilter = 18" * 12.57" = 226.2 in^2

    area

    Since I have to pass 160 cfm through this area, I need to convert from square inches to square feet:

    square inch is = 0.00694444444 square foot
    AREAfilter = 226.2 in * 0.007 = 1.57 ft

    flowrate


    I need to convert the flowrate from cfm to cfs because the contact time of 0.1 second is required
    FLOWRATE = 160 cfm = 160 cfm*1 minute/60 seconds = 2.66 cubic feet per second (cfs)

    volume
    So I need to have 2.66 cfs be in contact with the carbon for 0.1 seconds, that means at any one instant in time of .1 seconds, so much volume air will have passed thru:
    VOLUMEfilter = 2.66 cfs * 0.1 seconds = .266cubic feet of air (ft^3)


    thickness

    Since we know the area that this volume passed through, we can find the thickness.
    THICKNESS = VOLUMEfilter / AREAfilter = .266 ft^2 / 1.57 ft^2 = .17 ft

    in inches: THICKNESScarbon = .17ft*12 inches/ft = 2.03 inches in thickness

    Since I have a 4" inner cylinder and I need 2 inches of thickness, I will need an outer cylinder of 8" min.


    and thats pretty easy isnt it?
     
  14. so i took
    20 " lenght
    6" inch inner core
    180 cfm fan speed
    and came up with 1.3" thickness
    (which i made up to 1.5" due to lower density)
    and got 9" outer core

    well sounds fair
    is it?
     
  15. Sounds good to me man..good job..and based on those number you will replace air every 6-7 seconds in a perfect word(assuuming 100% displacement which is impossble especially with good internal circulation). Like the overkill so worst case you can just cut back the fan speed and get more contact time...

    Keep in mid though that you will be utiliziing the side of the filter closest to the fan without having different size holes as you prgress down the filter. So the sq ft of contact area will be compromised to some degree. I would make it so you can reverse the filter so you can extend its life..personally...
     
  16. So I have a question before I can make a statement or opinion on the DIY carbon scrubber.

    What is the difference between a carbon filter that is reversible and a filter that is not?
    I am wondering about the structure not airflow.
    If anyone can answer this, (I believe I already have the answer without ever seeing or researching it though) it would be great.
     
  17. By reversible i just mean that the air ducting can be attached to either side. So i guess structure wise it would just mean that you dont close off one end permanently...so in 2 moths or what ever you can seal off the other end and pull air from the previously closed side...

    Reasoning is that the carbon on end with the ducting will be "used up" faster because more airflow will be pulled through that portion....especially with the thin longer designs. I notice the thin longer one i have bought eliminates this uneven utilization of the carbon by having smaller holes inside the filter on the side that connect to the ducting and they progressively get larger the further you move down the tube.
     
  18. This is good, but what I mean is the reversible kind (pull air through, or push air through design) vs. only pull air through design. At least I think:confused:
     
  19. I am not familair with those...All i have see have been bulit the same and can be pushed or pulled through. I would think if they were layered with different materials would be the only time that reversing it would not work as well.

    I see people that push but they always seem to forget to add a prefilter on the inside of the carbon filter. The prefilter is probably more inportant when pushing i would think to because you have less surface area where the larger contaminants can block.
     
  20. What I am thinking is the reversible (the kind I explained) and the non, may have different interior structure. I am wondering if pulling or pushing is more efficient? And Why? (again, I think I have the answer, I just need some conformation before I bust out the DIY)
     

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