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Reaction between amonia and the "10 essential amphetamines"

  • by BlazinX1
  • Apr 13 2008 09:27 PM
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  • BlazinX1
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Posted 13 April 2008 - 09:27 PM

So I've been reading up on the synthesis of different Phenalamines, and eventually I've come to learn that there are 10 essential oils that are direct precursors to their ampheatmine counterparts (such as TMA, and MDMA).

From what I gathered is that the only reason that the chains in the oils are not active ampheatmines is because they are missing a bond with ammonia.

I'm guessing that there isn't much I need to do other than mix the oil with the ammonia to create the amphetamines, and then boil down to create an amphetamine base (seeing as ammonia is a base), ultimately leaving me with the essential amphetamine salt.

Unless I'm missing something, this seems too easy. I can get my hands on essential oils, and I'm sure i'll be able to get a few out of the ten, and ammonia is easy to get too.

Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

Edit: It also seems that I will be hard-pressed to find anhydrous ammonia (stupid drug laws) and will only be able to purchase diluted ammonia. I could seperate the two (I'm assuming heating to the boiling point of the ammonia, capturing the gas, then condesnsing it) otherwise I can just mix the essential oil with the hydrous ammonia and hopefully the h20 will not have any effect on the reaction. The oil must have some h20 in it, and the ammonia and water are safe together, hopefully when bonding the ammonia to the chain of the pre-cursor the water does'n' have a negative effect. If anyone knows why hydrous ammonia would be a problem that would also help.
Replies (9)

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  • hookahlove
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:29 AM

Asking a chemistry teacher wouldn't hurt, all the chemistry professors at my college are pretty chill, hopefully yours are too.

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  • hypertensionn
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:30 AM

If you were to sell it, would you just say it's meth?

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  • BlazinX1
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:38 AM

If you were to sell it, would you just say it's meth?


Well there are 10 essential amphetamines, each made from a different essential oil. Although they all are technically amphetamines, they are not all like "amphetamine" (dextroampheatmine, methampheatamine, cocaine [i know its not an amphetamine]. Some of them are psychoactive and don't create the hyped up feeling.

So if I were to sell anything it would be sold as is (TMA, MA, etc) and give the effects, I might relate it to meth or dmt but wouldn't lie to people. I'd also have to try out what I made first.

If no one that is good with organic chem answers me I will ultimately just buy some essential oil and mix it with ammonia, evaporate the excess water/ammonia and see what I'm left with. In theory everyone says it would work, but in the book PIHKAL all of the synthesis are used with chemicals and not the oils.


Another problem is that the oils are not 100% of the precursor and there are other chemicals which may react with the ammonia, and potentially create harmful chemicals.

Regardless I should be able to evaporate all of the water and ammonia and either be left with the phenelamine or back to the essential oil. Still someone who is good with organic chem would be a great help.

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  • coolrunnings
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:07 AM

You can make anhydrous ammonia by baking epsom salt at 200 degrees for 3 hours. Then dooing a few washes.

Or distill it, but seriously, that would reak. and i think you would have to do a fractional distillation.

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:15 PM

You can make anhydrous ammonia by baking epsom salt at 200 degrees for 3 hours. Then dooing a few washes.

Or distill it, but seriously, that would reak. and i think you would have to do a fractional distillation.


Yea, I've been thinking about making it anhydrous, but I don't see how the water will affect the reaction.

From what I gathered the raeaction should go like this:

C<sub>12</sub>H17O<sub>3 + NH3 > C12H19N03 + H

So the reaction takes NH3 (ammonia) and removes a hydrogen atom, and then NH2 bongs with annyapiole to yeild TMA and hydrogen atom.

Water is H20, however, the bond occurs with the Nitrogen attom while the hydrogen is released, so the new reaction (using hydrous ammonia) should be:

C12H1703 + NH3 + H20 > C12H19N03 + H + H20

So that could leave me with H30 if there is an acid to make the hydrogen (H+) which would bong to water, createing h3o. H3O is safe to human tissue, non-corrosive at a ph of 0 (dont know why), and seems as though it is edible and non-toxic. This doesn't matter however, because I will boil off the H30.

So it looks like the only byproducts will be H3O or H or H2O all of which seem perfectly fine for the reaction, so I think if I use hydrous ammonia I should be fine.
</sub>

  • Massachu-baka

  • coolrunnings
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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:12 PM

Im still a little skeptical however.

Your biproduct should be hydrogen gas since you are breaking the bond with hydrogen and introducing a nitrogen containing base. Also, with your biproduct containing h20, you will have trouble crystallizing the whole mess. It will probably end up brown and gunky. I can see TMA being produced a lot more easily than MDMA, MDA, etc but you must also remember that each essential oil containss the precursor along with some other shit you DONT want.

So you need to refine the chemical in the oil first (simple vacuum distillation) and collect the chemical in need. Check the Merck Index for the bp and vp of the chemical in question.

Also, TMA can be unpleasant. Its an either or but ive heard stories of it just not being as fun as you would expect (especially compared to mesc)

The problem from there is once you have the chemical isolated, i feel as if more must be done to prime it for 1.) oxidation (if needed, but presumable you will), 2.) another conversion and 3.) then adding ammonia to convert the oil to a salt (given that you extract the chemical in the first place)

I should definitely look into TMA synth soon so i can actually bounce ideas off you and vice versa. It should be a relatively easy synth since amps are pretty forgiving through the whole reaction (unless of course you overshoot, or dont measure your precursors correctly).

Ill check into it later. In the meantime, check PIHKAL entry on this. Ill link ya.

PIHKAL #157 TMA

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:02 PM

Im still a little skeptical however.

Your biproduct should be hydrogen gas since you are breaking the bond with hydrogen and introducing a nitrogen containing base. Also, with your biproduct containing h20, you will have trouble crystallizing the whole mess. It will probably end up brown and gunky. I can see TMA being produced a lot more easily than MDMA, MDA, etc but you must also remember that each essential oil containss the precursor along with some other shit you DONT want.

So you need to refine the chemical in the oil first (simple vacuum distillation) and collect the chemical in need. Check the Merck Index for the bp and vp of the chemical in question.

Also, TMA can be unpleasant. Its an either or but ive heard stories of it just not being as fun as you would expect (especially compared to mesc)

The problem from there is once you have the chemical isolated, i feel as if more must be done to prime it for 1.) oxidation (if needed, but presumable you will), 2.) another conversion and 3.) then adding ammonia to convert the oil to a salt (given that you extract the chemical in the first place)

I should definitely look into TMA synth soon so i can actually bounce ideas off you and vice versa. It should be a relatively easy synth since amps are pretty forgiving through the whole reaction (unless of course you overshoot, or dont measure your precursors correctly).

Ill check into it later. In the meantime, check PIHKAL entry on this. Ill link ya.

PIHKAL #157 TMA


I know the byproduct should be H, I was just saying I don't think hydrous or anyhydrous ammonia should affect it.

Also, I'm not looking solely into TMA, just using that as an example, whichever oil I get first I'm going to try.

One of the oils is 90% of the needed chemical, so I think I'll start with that one since I"ll only have to remove 10%.

  • Massachu-baka

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:22 PM

Alright, sounds good.

By the way, i was saying go anhydrous becuase your final product will not crystalize.

It will be a sludge or damp matter. It would be in your best interest to keep any unnecessary compounds out. Just more shit involved to fuck up the synth.

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:35 AM

Today I purchased a clove essential oil from GNC.

I mixed the oil (clear oil) with an equal amount of hydrous ammonia (clear liquid) and immediately the two began to bubble and turned green.

After stiring the mixture for some time, I allowed the concoction to settle, and it seperated into two layers. The lower layer looked the color of piss and not really cloudy, the top layer was a different color, much more cloudy, and lime green in color.

Later I'm going to separate the two layers, and boil down each one accordingly, to boil off any remaining ammonia and see what is left.

If the reaction worked, as it should in theory, the addition of the ammonia to the essential oil should yeild. 3,4-DMA and 2,4-DMA




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