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Ergot of Rye (Claviceps Purpurea) Questions


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#1
Thikr

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I don't expect many replies but I figured I'd give it a go anyways. Where could I find spores/reproductive cells for ergot of rye? I googled it and can't find any direct sites to buy spores which puzzles me because cultivating and possesing ergots is legal. If anyone has a link or info on the legality of ergot and its spores i would greatly appreciate it.

Here are some links I have found on the growing of ergot and the synthesis of LSD, please contribute other links with better instructions for non-chemists if you know of any.

Links:

1. Ergot Cultivation
http://tribes.tribe....7c-bdcebeb33286

2. Ergot Alkaloid Extraction (A little confusing)
http://www.wipo.int/...&DISPLAY=CLAIMS
http://www.freepaten...om/4237291.html

3. LSD Synthesis Methods
http://www.erowid.or...y/lsd-buzz.html


Important Notes/Sections pulled from links:

Directions to make LSD from Ergot Alkaloids,

LSD From Ergot Alkaloids

This was invented by Hofmann and is a superior method because you may proceed from the ergot alkaloids to LSD without isolating the lysergic acid. CA, 57, 12568 (1962).

Add 1.2 g of ergotamine hydrochloride to 4 ml of anhydrous hydrazine and heat 1 hour at 90°. Add 20 ml of water and evaporate in vacuo, to get d-iso-lysergic acid hydrazine. 1 g of the lysergic hydrazine is powdered well and added to 40 ml of 0.1 N (ice cold) HC1 acid. To this, cooled to 0°, is added 4 ml of 1 N Na nitrite, with good stirring. Over 2-3 min, add 40 ml of 0.1 N HC1 acid to get pH to 5. Let stand for 5 min, basify with 1 N NaHCO3, extract with 100 ml of ether, and then with 50 ml of ether. Wash the ether layer with water and dry, then evaporate in vacuo at 10°. Dissolve the resulting yellow azide in about 5 ml of diethylamine at 0° and then heat in a metal bomb at 60° for 1 hour. If a bomb is unavailable you may get by with heating for 3-4 hours at 45° in a vented flask under a nitrogen atmosphere. Also, I would flush the bomb with nitrogen before sealing and heating. Remove heat after time elapses and let stand (after bleeding off pressure for bomb method) for 2 hours and evaporate in vacuo to get 0.7 g of LSD and 0.15 g of iso-LSD. The iso-LSD will not do anything (good or bad) if consumed, so you may leave it in with the LSD. You may also separate it and convert it to LSD as in the formulas ahove.

#2
chevyguy2034

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http://www.erowid.org/plants/ergot/

it would be a really inefficient method of tripping - most of the trips that people have been having for thousands of years off of ergot have been BAD trips - caused by ergot poisoning - you want that one chemical (LSD) not all of the chemicals you find in ergot

#3
CanibasConsumer

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i read that ergot can cause gangrene and make your limbs fall off. you trying to make acid yourself? you'd have to find a rye field man, youre not gonna find ergot on the interent

#4
Thikr

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I have read the erowid link but i didn't find legality on the spores. Also, is ergot a common disease? I live in Jersey and I don't know of any rye fields around. For the record I don't intend to eat the ergots, just the goods inside of the ergots :smoking:. My last question is if you can become self sufficient once you have some ergot growing. Is there a way to harvest the spores and spread it to other rye plants? thanks again, peace

#5
chevyguy2034

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i posted the erowid link cause it was the only place i knew to find info on ergot - just offering any help i can

found this on erowid: "it should also be pointed out that Ergot is poisonous in its raw state. While extracts of it can be used in the production of LSD, this does not mean that the Ergot fungus itself produces LSD like effects when ingested and certainly not when smoked." http://www.erowid.or...ask.php?ID=1616

#6
Outis

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Are you an organic chemist?

Have fun trying to make LSD :smoking:

Keep us updated

#7
sm666

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most chemists don't even start from ergot.. there are easier ways..

#8
coolrunnings

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Kitchen chemists should try to tackle such projects as LSD and the likes.

Start with A/B extractions and work up from there.

#9
thedon420

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If you are trying to synthesise LSD, good luck, you need access to an organic chemistry lab, and some other hard to find reactacts. I haven't looked over the syntheses process in a long time. If you aren't making LSD, why do you want ergot? it has some very poisonous stuff in it,
but if you are looking to grow it, your best bet for spores would be to look in a rye field, so if you want to visit the midwest, go for it,
still, I'm curious as to why you want ergot?

#10
coolrunnings

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If you are trying to synthesise LSD, good luck, you need access to an organic chemistry lab, and some other hard to find reactacts. I haven't looked over the syntheses process in a long time. If you aren't making LSD, why do you want ergot? it has some very poisonous stuff in it,
but if you are looking to grow it, your best bet for spores would be to look in a rye field, so if you want to visit the midwest, go for it,
still, I'm curious as to why you want ergot?


Ill take a stab in the dark at this one and say its because he has heard of ergot aiding the creation of LSD and wanted to see if it were possible to find the first ingredient before starting the information venture on how to even begin this project.

:D I heard it a while back.

#11
Thikr

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hope im not necroposting, I am interested in LSD synthesis and I wanted to grow ergot so I would have access to the ergot alkaloids (used in creating LSD)

Are you an organic chemist?

Have fun trying to make LSD :smoking:

Keep us updated

Im no organic chemist but I have a decent knowledge of chemistry and I hope to major in biochemistry in college. I want to do something with organic chemistry so that should be a good major right? It's that or Economics :smoking:

most chemists don't even start from ergot.. there are easier ways..


Total LSD synthesis is very long and tedious process and most people grow the ergot fungis in a large jug with some sort of solutes for the ergot to feed on.

#12
MountainMike

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I don't expect many replies but I figured I'd give it a go anyways. Where could I find spores/reproductive cells for ergot of rye? I googled it and can't find any direct sites to buy spores which puzzles me because cultivating and possesing ergots is legal.


Possessing clostridium botulinum is also legal, but just because it is legal doesn't make it wise! As has been pointed out, ergot alkaloids have accidentally killed thousands throughout history - by making bread with rye grain contaminated with c. purpurea. Oops!



If anyone has a link or info on the legality of ergot and its spores i would greatly appreciate it.

Here are some links I have found on the growing of ergot and the synthesis of LSD, please contribute other links with better instructions for non-chemists if you know of any.

Links:
<SNIP>

3. LSD Synthesis Methods
Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (LSD) Syntheses


Important Notes/Sections pulled from links:

Directions to make LSD from Ergot Alkaloids,


That reference link above is full of a lot of BS. The chemicals and procedures (s)he mentions are worse than anything Shulgin talks about! See "TIHKAL" by Shulgin and Shulgin. 1997. Transform Press, Berkeley, Calif.

I have to disagree with one other post that stated "... there are better ways to manufacture LSD rather than the ergot alkaloid method...." (paraphrased). All efficient and pharmaceutically elegant methods start with lysergic acid or ergotamine, which are best obtained from a chemical supply house or extracted on your own if you want to remain really clandestine.

Alexander 'Sasha' Shulgin started with ergotamine tartrate (ET); all others (worth a damn) start with lysergic acid or ergotamine.

If you haven't done it yet, purchase your own copy of "TiHKAL". I have both "PiHKAL" (the first book they published) and "TiHKAL". They are worth every penny, IMHO!



Edited by MountainMike, 31 August 2009 - 01:18 AM.
to correct some errors!


#13
MountainMike

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Erowid Ergot Vault

it would be a really inefficient method of tripping - most of the trips that people have been having for thousands of years off of ergot have been BAD trips - caused by ergot poisoning - you want that one chemical (LSD) not all of the chemicals you find in ergot



Claviceps purpurea (aka ergot) has NO LSD in it! It has lysergic acid, the "parent" molecule. LSD (aka Lysergic Acid Diethylamide, LSD-25, lysergide, etc.) has to be SYNTHESIZED from lysergic acid (or ergotamine), which is extracted from ergot.

This is a common misperception.





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